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Phillip Allen
12-07-2009, 09:32 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nf1OgV449g

LeeG
12-07-2009, 09:38 AM
more interesting

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C917QJH9GNM

Phillip Allen
12-07-2009, 09:40 AM
that's silly, Lee...

Uncle Duke
12-07-2009, 10:14 AM
Highest recommendations for this book:
http://www.amazon.com/Place-Concorde-Suisse-John-McPhee/dp/0374519323/


Anyone who has ever traveled in Switzerland cannot help but to have remarked upon the overwhelming tranquility of the country. But this tranquility is illusory. As John McPhee writes in La Place de la Concorde Suisse, a rich journalistic study of the Swiss Army's role in Swiss society, "there is scarcely a scene in Switzerland that is not ready to erupt in fire to repel an invasive war." With a population smaller than New Jersey's, Switzerland has a standing army of 650,000 ready to be mobilized in less than 48 hours. The Swiss Army, known in this country chiefly for its little red pocketknives, is so quietly efficient at the arts of war that the Israelis carefully patterned their own military on the Swiss model. You'll understand why after reading this outstanding book.

John McPhee is perhaps the greatest contemporary non-fiction writer - all his stuff is excellent. I'd also recommend:
The Survival of the Bark Canoe (http://www.amazon.com/Survival-Bark-Canoe-John-McPhee/dp/0374516936)
and
Heirs of General Practice (http://www.amazon.com/Heirs-General-Practice-John-McPhee/dp/0374519749)

LeeG
12-07-2009, 10:15 AM
that's silly, Lee...

Can't help it.

Nicholas Scheuer
12-07-2009, 12:23 PM
Not news at all.

I worked for the American Division of a Suisse-owned private company in the early 1980's. The Suisse on temporary assignment in the US would talk about the military arms in their homes, but they wouldn't stress it. Nor would they get al "macho" about it, wanting to show a visitor the fire effect such weapons might have on nearby trees, steel barrels, or derelict automobiles.

Suisse people in general have more self control than a lot of the gun nuts we see in the USA.

Moby Nick

Phillip Allen
12-07-2009, 02:32 PM
Not news at all.

I worked for the American Division of a Suisse-owned private company in the early 1980's. The Suisse on temporary assignment in the US would talk about the military arms in their homes, but they wouldn't stress it. Nor would they get al "macho" about it, wanting to show a visitor the fire effect such weapons might have on nearby trees, steel barrels, or derelict automobiles.

Suisse people in general have more self control than a lot of the gun nuts we see in the USA.

Moby Nick

Just HOW would you know that...what you see is only the ones without self-control...good gracious!

that is a conclusion without anything to support it

Glen Longino
12-07-2009, 02:44 PM
"vedio"
I buy you books and buy you books...
Sure, it was a typo, but still...:)

wizbang 13
12-07-2009, 02:49 PM
Wow! "Gloria" hit that piggy bank with at least 3 outa 50 rounds!

David W Pratt
12-07-2009, 03:15 PM
Young women should be wearing eye, ear and sunburn protection.

Phillip Allen
12-07-2009, 03:18 PM
once again...any meaningful discussion has been short-curcuited...(gosh, thanks Lee... :(

BarnacleGrim
12-07-2009, 03:29 PM
With all due respect, Switzerland ≠ USA.

There must be some design flaw with American guns, with their bullets flying off in random directions and committing all those homicides :D

I would like to see the SOLAS ditch the ISPS and adopt the US second amendment instead. Assault weapons have a very real application off the coast of Africa these days.

Phillip Allen
12-07-2009, 03:38 PM
Grim...have a little patients, I did not say the US equaled the Swiss or vica versa...I said it was an interesting vee-dee-oh (did I spell that better?)

Bigfella will come along this evening to point out the guy needs a gun safe...

Nicholas Scheuer
12-07-2009, 03:44 PM
I certainly did not imply that ALL Amercan gun nuts like to pull an AK-47 out of the trunk of their car and blast nearby derelict automobiles, but I have stood next to more than one such individuaul, and I have "clicked on" plenty of video for which people here post the URL.

OTOH, I got the distinct impression when working for Suisse employer many years ago that very few, if any Suisse behave that way around the military weapons so common in their households. Indeed, the video you start with depicts a very controlled "family" affair.

Did you start this thread with a preordained agenda, Phillip?

Moby Nick

Phillip Allen
12-07-2009, 03:47 PM
Did you start this thread with a preordained agenda, Phillip?

Moby Nick

not really...although, I can understand why many here will assume that I did...

I wanted to find out what others would see as compared to what I saw...

Harbormaster
12-07-2009, 05:03 PM
Maybe it is cultural, and the Swiss don't have any problems with everyone having access to automatic weapons in their homes. I suspect we'd have a lot more dead Americans if we went that route.

And I guarantee that if the Germans were all armed, it wouldn't have saved the Jews, it would just have meant that the slaughter would have been quicker and more thorough.

Nicholas Scheuer
12-07-2009, 05:13 PM
Working for the Suisse was very educational, from an international point of view. The CFO, for instance was very frank in expressing opinions about Americans. They ate "out" every lunchtime, and would try to make wise choices from the menues. One day the CFO said, "someday Americans will all turn into hambergers".

His usual lunchmate, the son of the company owner, was not so frank, but I rember him smiling and nodding affirmative at that remark.

On weekends they would drive as far as their German economy auto would take them, not wanting to waste a single day just sitting around watching TV.

People here think I'm one of those Americans who like to badmouth everything they hold dear. In truth, I can be very self efacing. Some of that comes from things like practically worhiping George Custer when I was a kid playing cowboys and indianbs with fairly realistic guns we made out of wood. Then I read more about him as I progressed through school and realized he was an egotistical jerk who got all of his soldiers killed at Little Bighorn through his own hubris. Moral of that story is simply that we need to be more about careful choosing our heros.

Moby Nick

BrianW
12-07-2009, 05:31 PM
Suisse people in general have more self control than a lot of the gun nuts we see in the USA.

A generalization.

Which like most, is usually wrong.


I certainly did not imply that ALL Amercan gun nuts...

This is backpedaling.

Often required after a generalization.

Nicholas Scheuer
12-07-2009, 07:12 PM
Guilty of "generalization" and "backpedaling"? Gee, slap my wrist with a wet noodle!

Sure beats the heck out of name-calling and personal insults.

Moby Nick

Phillip Allen
12-07-2009, 07:31 PM
Guilty of "generalization" and "backpedaling"? Gee, slap my wrist with a wet noodle!

Sure beats the heck out of name-calling and personal insults.

Moby Nick

but you miss that warm glowy feeling...

Brian Palmer
12-07-2009, 08:47 PM
I'll try to make this meaningful:

After mandatory military service, the Swiss gun owners are probably much better trained than most American gun owners, so accidents are (hopefully) less likely to happen.

Through mandatory military service, the government probably has a better chance to spot those individuals who may become "problematic" gun owners, and treat them accordingly.

Then of course, there may be the deterrent effect of a gun in every house.

Brian

Bob Adams
12-07-2009, 08:52 PM
I'm suprised that no one has noticed that except the shotgun, all the weapons in Lee's video are illegal for the general public in the United States.

Phillip Allen
12-07-2009, 09:02 PM
I'm suprised that no one has noticed that except the shotgun, all the weapons in Lee's video are illegal for the general public in the United States.

that's cause as soon as I saw what it was I turned it off...I believe I said it was silly

stevebaby
12-07-2009, 10:23 PM
Grim...have a little patients, I did not say the US equaled the Swiss or vica versa...I said it was an interesting vee-dee-oh (did I spell that better?)

Bigfella will come along this evening to point out the guy needs a gun safe...He already has one...0.38 in the video.

Bob (oh, THAT Bob)
12-08-2009, 02:26 AM
I want that Type 57 (Sig) rifle in the first video. Very fine rifle, even chambered in a good cartridge, 7.5 Swiss, of course. Nice bayonet too, probably the best looking bayonet ever produced. Expensive.

Also I think I saw near the end of the video a Sig 210 service pistol, also probably the finest quality military sidearm ever produced. Excellent craftsmanship. Accurate. Relatively simple design by today's standards. Always expensive, even when current issue. The superb Sig-Hammerli P240 target pistol was based heavily on it.

But the low crime rate has to do with other factors as well, such as very high education standards and rate.

BrianW
12-08-2009, 04:13 AM
Sure beats the heck out of name-calling and personal insults.

Moby Nick

Often guilty of, and often a victim of...

I'm so torn. (not) :)

The Bigfella
12-08-2009, 05:08 AM
I will come along and point out a minor inconsistency. The video description says...


Guns are deeply rooted within Swiss culture - but the gun crime rate is so low that statistics are not even kept.


... they had 34 gun murders in 2006... two or three more than I seem to recall for Oz in the latest stats.... yet their population is exactly one third of ours.

I say the video is rubbish.