Creative Solutions- help!

[mhoffman]

Ok all, I need some creative solution ideas. Here's the problem:
I have a tandem axle trailer and a narrow driveway. So, to get my boat (about 3000lbs with boat and trailer) into the garage, (90 degress to the driveway) I have to roll it in and out several times to angle it in slowly, or force the wheels to pivot/slide across concrete (I've wet the driveway with soapy water before to reduce friction- how's that for being lazy!).
What I think would help would be a plate or platform that I could back the trailer onto that I could have casters on, where I could pivot the entire trailer. Not sure how to easily construct something like that- and the load capacity of the casters. Also, I only have about eight inches of clearance on either side of the entryway.
I was also considering trying to use a couple of hydraulic pallet jacks that I could lift the trailer then pivot on the pallet jacks- only rub with that idea is the wheels in the front of the jacks don't swivel.
I'm trying to keep the solution simple, and inexpensive.
I know ya'll are a creative bunch- how about some ideas?
Oh, one other point: I don't have any personnel assistance in this evolution...

Thanks in advance!
Matt

[Donn]

Make a trailer dolly.

http://www.jackssmallengines.com/Graphics/MartinWheel/trailerdolly.jpg

[Brian Palmer]

Can you safely remove one set of wheels from the trailer so they don't slide against the other set? Would this be okay for the short distance in the driveway?

-- Brian

[Wild Dingo]

eons ago I member seein a website where they had a sort of lazy susan set up in the entrance to the garage drive the car straight on hit a button lazy susan turns it around and faces it out... seems like you need that sort of thing mate! ;)

[mhoffman]

Donn- trailer dolly would help only for the front of the trailer; the back end still needs to pivot, unless I could find a dolly big enough to lift the back end... :eek:

Brian- actually a single axel trailer would make the problem mute; however I think taking a set of wheels on and off each time I take the boat out would get old quick- I garage store it, so it could be a weekly evolution.

Its a start...!
Matt

[Donn]

How about a sheet of masonite, liberally slathered with vaseline? Get 2 sheets, and store them vaseline sides together.

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/norm/sum-g1032_m.jpg

www.summitracing.com (http://www.summitracing.com) 80 bucks a pair

rated at 1000 pounds each.... so two pairs 160 bucks.. four thousand pounds

[ 04-13-2004, 11:26 AM: Message edited by: Peter Malcolm Jardine ]

[mmd]

What's your budget?

[Dan Lindberg]

While not quite the same, I use a floor jack to pick up my boat under the axel, (it's only 1500lbs) and move it sideways (forward on the jack casters) against the back wall of the garage. It takes a couple iterations but it works. The tongue is on a wheeled jack and moves easily with the boat.

Dan

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

PMJ's solution seems the way to go even if you make it yourself with locking casters and a lip to ramp the trailer on then back wheels on and then click and go.

[Karl A. Hilbert]

Would you only need one pair of those Summit Racing wheel dollies?

[ 04-13-2004, 12:10 PM: Message edited by: Karl A. Hilbert ]

[Sheister]

Buy a new house with a garage that is easier to get into! Any other questions?

[PT flyer]

would it be easier if you had a hitch put on the front of your tow rig? that way you could see where everything was going while you pushed it into the garage. It might just take a lot of back and forth to get it into the right spot.

[htom]

PMJ's solution will work well on concrete driveways, but not on others without something that could take the concentration of load at those sixteen points.

A pair of 4'x8' sheets of plywood, faced with some slippery plasic sheeting facing each other, is what I'd try. You'd have to keep cleaning the plastic faces.

[Paul Pless]

Buy a good boat cover and keep it in the driveway.

[DerekW]

Do you have room on the rear horizontals of the trailer to mount an additional tongue jack or two on either side? Drive in, unhitch, lower the jacks and roll sideways...
If the standard plastic wheels don't do it then a little welding shop work would see the rear jacks fitted with pneumatic wheels.

cheers
derek

[Mike Vogdes]

Removing one wheel from each side would make all the difference jockying your trailer around. It wouldn't be that inconvienient, you would probably be able to do it rather quickly after a few times.

[RichardBlake]

Drill a hole in the concrete about where the inside wheels have to pivot without scrubbing. Cement a piece of steel pipe into it, top flush with the concrete, bottom welded closed. Drop in a piece of bar just small enough to turn freely. Weld the top of the bar underneath the middle of a long drive-on plate, as long as the distance between axle centres plus about 2 feet for fore-and-aft convenience. Maybe make it of perforated steel on a frame for lightness. Add hardwood sliders well greased or -better - wheels under the ends of the plate to support them while the whole thing turns.
Back the trailer so the inside wheels are on the plate, unhitch and push round. The outside wheels should surely run round that diameter circle without scrubbing too much as the inside wheels pivot on a fixed axle, and you have some adjustment possible by running the supported wheels forwards or back on the plate. Once the trailer is in the garage, get your six friends to help you lift the steel contraption away for the winter! Seriously, though, I think it might work, as long as the hitch at the other end isn't going to destroy the rose bushes on the way round...

Good luck
Richard

[Phil Young]

Assuming you have a jockey wheel/dolly at the front, what you need is a mechanism to pull either the forward or rear pair of trailer wheels up against the chassis, so the trailer then sits with two wheels only on the ground, and will spin easily. How to pull two wheels up depends a bit on the detail of the trailer. A lever bent just so, over a trailer member and under an axle? A small block and tackle? One of those ratchet things usually used for securing a load to a truck or roof racks? Some kind of screw mechanism? You'll need to work out the detail.

[formerlyknownasprince]

Find a boat storage company - then use the space you have just freed up to build a wooden boat! :D

[Paul Scheuer]

In my younger days, doing passnger car anti-skid development work we used a gloss-painted, paved surface, with a little water, to simulate glare ice. It was so slick that you couldn't walk on it.

On the other hand, most trailer tires rot out before the tread wears out. If you can get over the noise and scrubbing, just make sure you jockey the trailer a little to relieve the side stress when you finally park it.

If you're having trouble with all the tongue movement, you might think about uncoupling from the truck and doing the final positioning with a motorized dolly, like a Gravely or a snow blower with front casters installed, and a hitch ball. If you can salvage an old one, you could replace a bad motor with an electric just for use in your driveway.

I'm assuming you're working on a level surface.

[Mrleft8]

Sounds like you need a turn table. Inert a metal pipe into the middle of the driveway level with the surface (as suggested above) and make a disc out of plywood with a diameter greater than the width of your trailer wheels. Put a pipe flange and a short section of pipe on the plywood disc (make sure the pipe fits neatly inside the pipe you sank into the driveway.) Drive the trailer onto the disc, unhook it, turn it until it's where you want it, and drive off of the disc. Remove the disc from the driveway before you drive over it with your vehicle.

[Al Thomason]

Perhaps you could figure out some way to raise one set of wheels. e.g., a lever over one axle and under the other. 'Custom cut' 2x4 :)

Or even some type of cable / level mounted to pul one axle up a little. Might not even need to get it off the ground, transfering maybe 50% of the weight might help a lot.

[Ian McColgin]

Al's solution is close to one we found worked on a horse trailor. We replaced the bottome of the toungue jack with a pair of fairly hefty wheels. It still wound up well out of the way but the extra height given by those wheels when jacked down fully lifted the front axel's wheels clear of the pavement when the trailor was empty and lightened them enoungh with the trailor full that the front wheels did not exert much friction and fiddling in tight places was not a problem. If you put a front hitch on your rig that is high enough to catch the tongue then you can very easily move the thing around. Alternativly, some strategic mounts to put a handibilly down and haul with some mechanical advantage on that. Perhaps your drive is stunningly flat any you only need that little extra muscle for the little slope that should be on the garage apron.

Anyway, modifying the tongue jack should do you.

'Course, if you have a snowplough rig, just dangle a hook and chain to pick the tongue up enough to ease those front wheels. Same thing but a tad more sway.

G'luck

[ 04-18-2004, 08:10 AM: Message edited by: Ian McColgin ]

[mhoffman]

Thank all for the input- I think the wheel dollies are the best solution so far...

The boat has the engine forward of the cockpit, so the center of gravity is a bit forward of the axle pair, so raising trying to unload one set of wheels would take some doing.

The driveway apron is too narrow for a single rotaional point to pivot the entire trailer into the garage, so that otion is kind of out.

Covering the boat and leaving in the driveway would cause heartburn with the neighborhood covenants committee, plus not real eager to fight the mold, tree sap, etc...

I was initially thinking about some sort of platform that I could back up the trailer wheels on, have some sort of hydraulic jack system to lift the platform and engage a set of casters where I could pivot/swivel the entire boat and trailer- sort of like the wheel systems PMJ mentioned above. I should probably mention too that the boat and trailer together are about 3000lbs, give or take.

Thanks for everyone's input. Any other ideas?

Matt

[htom]

Silly ideas, except for the last:

I imagined something like very thick tire chains you could wrap around the rear tires, that would take the front tires off the ground, but that's silly. How about putting larger wheels on the rear when it's in the driveway to that end?

Or a roller placed underneath the front and rear wheels, the roller's on the driveway, the wheels press on the roller. You'd need two rollers, of course, or two small tires on an axel.

A device actually used in theatre is air pressure. "Air castors" or "air bearings", they're sometimes called, you can buy these things but you don't need to, you can make your own (a local theatre company tech director should be able to point to details, I just know that they exist.)

http://www-emtd.lanl.gov/TD/Decon/AeroGoAirCasters.html

http://www.asesystems.com/aircasters.htm

http://www.hovair.com/glossary-of-terms.htm

http://www.hovair.com/Transporters/platform-transporters.htm

http://www.hovair.com/Turntables/vehicle-turntables.htm

I should probably put a warning on this scheme; it's really impressive to see a car silently floating across the stage, pushed by a single hundred pound stagehand, but it's spectacular to see it float over the recessed footlights and then attempt to pass over the orchestra pit! (I wish I'd gotten to see that art, it was described to me, I only got the ordinary demo.)

[mhoffman]

Well, PMJ's wheel dollies would worrk, but I would have to jack up the trailer to get them under each wheel. Wouldn't be too bad for the $160 option...

As to the air casters. Hmmm. There are several companies that have pre-assembled units with variable numbers of casters and lift capacity either in a single platform or "planks" where I could use two of them going fore and aft across the axels and then pivot the trailer around the forward hitch wheel. $3200-$4500. Eeesh...

They also have for those who like to invest their own time and engineering skills, however limited those may be, individual casters, of various sizes, verticle lift capacity, and lift height. Prices around $500 ea- could probably get away with using two of them.

The only rub with the air casters is that you need a smooth surface- mine is brushed concrete. They said I could use a sheet of linoleum or put a sealer down on the driveway- the garage interior is already painted with white epoxy.

So I think I might keep noodle-ing the problem and see what I can come up with. I like the two caster idea, but not real anxious to drop $1000 for something that I may use 20 times per year for 15 minutes each of effort savings....

Thanks all-
Matt

[leon bee]

Buy a Ford 8N tractor. Build a trailer hitch rig for the 3 point hitch. Back in the drive, raise the hitch way up with the hydraulic.......tractors are good for backing things. Then build a little garage for tractor and read tractor forum everyday.

[sbsbw]

God I hope you have a flat driveway/garage.

Personaly I think that this not a good idea. 3000# is a lot of weight, and lets not forget newtons first law. (an object in motion will stay in motion. Also if all four trailer wheels are on casters you will have no control over the trailer from inside your truck.

I like the 8N idea exept for it problably would not be able to life the wieght of the tongue of the trailer. it also would become become unstable with that much weight that high.

I know nothing of towing or trailers, but my advice would be to drive on the lawn in front of your garage, either that or find a neighbor who has a better situation for storing a boat.

sbsbw

[Bill Perkins]

This is a compromise solution . Instead of removing one set of tires ,how about deflating one set so they just barely stay on the hub while maneuvering .This would be fast with a valve wrench . Maybe the other set would be temporarily overinflated as well .Before heading out on the road ,a decent sized compressor would make short work of reinflation .

[ 05-19-2004, 09:23 PM: Message edited by: Bill Perkins ]