cedar strip kayak

[Jim Budde]

Completing a CLC kayak .. now want to build a cedar strip alternative. Anyone built the Skimalong 16 footer adverised in WB Store? Have other suggestions for a simple (I repeat simple) strip design ... preferrably in the 16 foot range?

[garland reese]

Tony Dias has a nice kayak design that he did for Mike O'Brien (methinks??). It has no bulkheads and can be had in a couple of widths. It is quite good looking and should be a good boat. There is an interesting chapter on the design process in Tony's book. www.diasdesign.com (http://www.diasdesign.com)

Additionally, the Great Auk from Nick Schade is available in the form of offsets. It does not appear to have any difficult curves to deal with (I have lofted the mold shapes, but have not built one...). The deck is peaked on the centerline with straight lines from peak to sheer. It could be shortened to 16' without much fuss (has been built both shorter and longer than the specified 17'). Full plans from Nick Schade at guillemot kayaks. Best deal would be to buy his book. You have three designs to choose from plus good instruction for strip building.
Ted Moores' KayakCraft is also a good book and has a few designs in there that can be lofted and built from the book. His methods are different from Schade's. It looks to have a bit more fiddly work (fitting the sheerclamp, etc), but I really couldn't say for sure..........6 with one, a half dozen with the other, maybe.?

For a first stripper, the Great Auk might do well, aside from the one you are looking at. It is 24" abeam, so will be quite stable I'd imagine. A good bit wider than your CLC perhaps.

Even the most sporty of kayaks, such as those from Nick, One Ocean kayaks, Redfish, and others, should not be too difficult, if you take your time and read up on the methods before you start. There is plenty of help at sites such as the builders forum at guillemot kayaks. They pretty much specialize in building and using kayaks there.......... guillemot kayaks (http://www.guillemot-kayaks.com)

[ 12-31-2002, 03:48 PM: Message edited by: garland reese ]

[Steve Lansdowne]

Ted Moores' web site has a bulletin board (bear mountain boat shop peer talk) that deals mainly with strip built canoes, along with some kayaks occasionally. That and Nick Shades' web site will get you plenty of advice on building strippers.

[Jim Budde]

thanks, folks .. and Happy New Year

[LeeG]

Jim, not having built a strip boat all I can suggest is to go to the sources of experience as garland mentioned:

http://www.kayakforum.com/cgi-bin/Building/index.cgi

[capt jake]

Jim, one Ocean Kayaks designs are easy to follow. Very detailed instructions and a very detailed website in addition.
One Ocean (http://oneoceankayaks.com/)
My kayak (http://home.attbi.com/~jwentz4/kayak.htm)

Two links attached. The second one is a 17' stripper built to his plans.

Have fun!! smile.gif

[LeeG]

Capt. Jake, that's gorgeous,,that's exactly the model I've been thinking I would make if I ever got around to it,,then again Nick Schades Night Heron looks good too.

[capt jake]

Thanks Lee! I had the same debate in my mind. Which one? Well you see which one did!! :D :D

[LisaS]

I will second Lee's suggestion to go to the kayak building board. I will add that my favorite is the Atlantic, designed by Eric Schade of Shearwater Boats. He offers plans in 17' and 19' and another boat called the Oystercatcher which is the same boat, but 18'. I built the 19' last year, and love it. I didn't paddle my Ches. 17 once last year after getting into this kayak.

Lisa

[LeeG]

Lisa, I know I'm holding off making a strip boat but Erics going to make that easy,, he's on a medium volume eight panel s&g kayak that looks a little like the Merganser on top that'll hit the niche that is presently taken by high volume and four panel hulls. Not much help if you're not around his size but thought I'd pass it on. Just out of curiosity do you have anything to compare the Atlantic to?

[cs]

I'm going to suggest David Hazen's "The Stripper's Guide to Canoe-Building." It comes with full size patterns for 2 kayaks. Sure the book was written before the widespread use of epoxy and he uses staples, but don't let that stop you. His designs are great and can easily be converted to stapless.

http://www.woodenboatstore.com/store/images/300135S.JPG

This books is available through our host at the Wooden Boat Store. Don't try to buy it anywhere else cause trust me it will be on back order and it may take a couple of months to get it.

Chad

[NormMessinger]

I was waiting for Todd to weigh in on this discussion. He has said the Micmac canoe is the best design he knows about. I was wondering if he would feel the same about the kayaks in the book. The book being the one Chad mentions above.

--Norm

[Tomcat]

WoodenBoat has given perverse favor to fat Kayaks. 28.5 inches is more the size of a solo canoe than a kayak. You will have wave forming issues which you don't generally want with a double paddle boat, unless you enjoy tendonitis. Try to keep the WLW to 1/8 of finer than the WLL. Of course if you are just poking around, no harm.

The second thing to consider is to decide whether you want a fully contoured boat, or one with a nice curvy underwater sections, but are happy with a flattish deck. As could be made either out of ply, or deck molded strips. This a personal choice, and you can come at it thinking flatter decks are more traditional, easy to build, and weatherly, or you can prefer the look of the fully curved decks, figure they have less drag, and take fuller advantage of the building potential of strips.

Third you might consider what your current kayak is like, and what attributes it doesn't have, particularly attributes that might be creatable only in strip. Strip is a lot more trouble, and I like to use it's unique shape generating potential.

For decked style kayaks, look over on the bearmountainboats.com site

Also, spend some time looking at kayak manufacturer sites, they may come at it differently since they generally aren't limited by the shape generating concerns that face ply and strip builders. Basically every glass boat they make will have to be joined out of two halves, which is the tricky bit of fully curved construction. You may get an idea from them about styles that make sense out there vs. styles that home builders feel comfortable attempting. In the end you may have your own agenda, but at least start with the best, design wise. Certainly if we were talking canoes, even canoes of modern non-historic type, there would be few models that would be worth commercial production out of the large number of plans offered for sale. The serious boats are largely built in molded glass, so its a good place to start one's investigations. I don't know the kayak market as well, but wouldn't be surprised if the same was true.

[ 01-03-2003, 01:45 PM: Message edited by: Tomcat ]

[Todd Bradshaw]

The first real boat that I ever built was an 18' Hazen "Nanaimo" double kayak in 1974.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid28/p294ea5156d61c7b8346ffa6e05ef7433/fd681e07.jpg
At the time, it was a decent boat in comparison to what was available, but these days you can do a lot better. With inside and outside glass seams, rather than the more typical internal sheer clamp system for joining the hull and deck, the Nanaimo (and also Hazen's longer, narrower Tsunami model) are pretty tricky to build if you want the finished seams to be invisible on the outside. I remember sending my little brother, who was about 12 at the time, down into the ends of the hull to push or pull on things while I duct-taped the hull and deck together in preparation for the seaming operation. He was pretty itchy when he came out and not very happy - 'course, that was better than the time I sent him way down into the bow of a low volume slalom kayak with an ice cream scoop to dig out a soggy block of pour-in foam....poor kid.

Compared to what is currently available, the Nanaimo is undersized for a double, fairly slow and initially rather unstable. It has good final stability, but is pretty twitchy when you put two people in it. It's not going to roll over on you out of the blue, but doubles with limited initial stability can be annoying. When you stop to rest or to shoot a picture it feels kind of like trying to stand still on a bicycle without taking your feet off the pedals.

Hazen's 20' Tsunami K2 is pretty fast, but just plain tippy if you ask me. Like his "Abenaki" canoe models, it was designed back in the days when it was assumed that a fast hull had to have a very round bottom. Modern doubles are roomier, more stable and still faster than these old designs. I also can't see much reason to try converting either Hazen plan to a shortened single kayak when there are so many good singles already available. "The Stripper's Guide" is a good read and his 17' and 18' Micmacs are still the best all-around and tripping canoes that I've ever paddled, but I'd leave the Abenaki canoes and his kayaks alone. In either case, you can find something current that will do the job better.

I don't know much about WB's "Skimalong". I would say that for a single, it's monsterously wide and that leads me to think it may be fairly slow and lack some of the personal "wear your boat - rather than sit in it" feel that good singles have. It's hard to rationalize a single wider than 24"-25" maximum beam without some really good reason to have it. Most single kayaks with a 24" beam are extremely stable and many people are perfectly comfortable with boats with a beam of 22"-23" or so. A wider hull just makes it harder to paddle efficiently. With a little practice, most folks can paddle a kayak with a waterline beam in the 19"-19.5" range comfortably and the performance they offer rewards the paddler.

If I was planning to build a kayak, I'm not sure what I'd build these days. I kind of like the lines of a couple of the Redfish boats, but haven't tried one, so I can't say much about them. As far as I'm concerned, there-in lies the key. I'm up to somewhere around boat #30 in my quest for the perfect kayak and I can't imagine building or buying one at this point without trying it out on the water first. Even so, the one I like best might be the one you like the least. We've got the largest paddlesports shop in the world here in town and right on the water. Every year I test paddle a half-dozen or so world-class sea kayaks and if there are one or two that I really like, it's a good year. That doesn't mean that the others aren't great boats, just that they aren't great boats for me. For a starter design in strips, I'd suggest something that's not too extreme in any direction and that's backed up by a good forum of people who have built the same boat. You can fine-tune your taste in kayaks as you progress on your own quest for the perfect boat.

You also might check the Bear Mountain Boats forum. A couple of weeks ago I put up some photo links and an explanation of how the sliding seat works in my Mariner II sea kayak. It's a wonderful addition to any touring kayak and something similar is worth thinking about on anything you might build.

[ 01-03-2003, 04:17 PM: Message edited by: Todd Bradshaw ]

[LisaS]

Lee -

The closest one that I can come up with to the Atlantic is Nick's Night Heron. Those two were neck and neck when I was trying to decide which to build. Eric had an Atlantic at the house that he was about to deliver to someone, and it fit like a glove. For those interested in stitch and glue built canoes, we're building his first one now, and have started to make the patterns for a 16' Rangeley type boat as well.

Lisa

[Wild Dingo]

now thinking of things slow and fast I was drooling over the woodenboat catalogue last night as one does when things are slow but you cant sleep anyway I see this "kingfisher" plans for $75USD {which as we all know is about 150 or so AUD :mad: }... talk about a dart!! :cool:

now what do you fellas reckon about building something like that? but putting the rower going forward instead of backward?... I mean if one started sculling backwards around here it would be like a red flag to a bull for the dementaed galahs in their gofastnostop rocket powered jetskeets to raze and haze a fella... so gotta face forwards... as well as that who the blazes ever got anywhere going backwards to go forwards? :rolleyes: and where the heck are the rearvision mirrors on these things so you can see where your going? tongue.gif

I really am thinking of getting into paddling and rowing in a serious way eventually as it would be great physiotherapy and it would sure get a fella fit and one could see things from a whole different perspective... but I just cant abide the thought of going backwards and not being able to see whats coming! :eek:

Shane

[garland reese]

:D :D Dingo,

You gotta turn around and glance over the shoulder every so often. The Kingfisher is a nice design for a recreational rowing shell. Another option would be to get CLC's Oxford shell and use one of those forward facing rowing drop in instead of the piantidosi rig that is spec'd. Rowing is a great sport. I wish that Vaclav of One Ocean would do a racing shell design for strip building (He was a National team rower in his native country). That'd be cool.

[Tomcat]

The good thing about sculling/rowing is the uncoiling of the whole body. Feels so good I don't care where I am going.

On the other hand, if you must face forward, and I find it hard to credit the Australians are unfamilliar witht he concept, I say get a peddle drive unit. It is like a leg powered outboard, and you can put it in a number of efficient little boats, both big and small.

I like this boat, though it isn't really what I was talking aobut above:

http://www.gartsideboats.com/blueskies.php

[Todd Bradshaw]

Then there are always those curious Hobie Cat sit-on-top kayaks that can be paddled or propelled by pedal-powered flippers
http://www.hobiecat.com/kayaking/images/flippers_2b.gif We paddled next to a couple of them on Lake Superior one day and they move pretty well.
http://www.hobiecat.com/kayaking/index.html

[ 01-04-2003, 04:24 AM: Message edited by: Todd Bradshaw ]

[LeeG]

Lisa, who's s&g canoe?

Todd, those go quicker than I expected. I wonder for hamburgers eaten which you'd go farther on. A kayak paddle or the flipper fins and in what conditions the flippers lose effectiveness because of the need to brace.