Birdeye Masts,,,beating this topic to death!

[Pernicious Atavist]

I've kept up with the birdseye topic, but haven't seen (and dangit, can't find issue 149) what type adhesive to use.

I'll probably use SYP since I have a good source and what I've used has proven to be top-notch.

I'd rather avoid epoxy.

[Farmer Diddley]

In the article in WB 149, they use epoxy

[Pernicious Atavist]

figured as much. but....

[Tom Lathrop]

Assembling a birdseye mast takes a bit of nudging here and there to get it to line up properly. Getting a lot of clamping pressure on such a structure is nigh impossible. A glue which offers a long set up time and low clamping pressure is very desirable.

Make a list of glues and find the ones that offer the desired characteristics and has proven to be strong over time.

Epoxy stands out as the best choice by far. There is too much ill founded negativism about epoxy on this forum. It's just a building material with a few minuses and a lot of plusses. Get over it.

[Pernicious Atavist]

good point, tom! you're right; i'm avoiding epoxy, but use other modern adhesives :rolleyes:
i'm over it! thanks for the wake up call :D

[Tom Robb]

Bird's-mouth, not birdeye.
An adhesive that doesn't creep would also be in order.

[Pernicious Atavist]

:rolleyes: ...just seeing who was paying attention!

[Tom Lathrop]

Originally posted by Tom Robb:
Bird's-mouth, not birdeye.
An adhesive that doesn't creep would also be in order.Sorry, dislexic fingers
:D Now we know who was paying attention.

[ 11-20-2005, 06:39 PM: Message edited by: Tom Lathrop ]

[AndyFarquhar]

I clamp birdsmouth spars by spiral wrapping nylon cord down the length of the spar. I wear work gloves when wrapping the spar so that I can stretch the cord to apply some clamping pressure.

I use epoxy.

[Paul G]

I made a series of spanish windlasses,
tie a loop of old rope around the spar, insert a stick then wind to the desired tension. Use a bit of duct tape to hold said stick in place.

Much better and cheaper than hose clamps, plus you can do any size.

I used epoxy smile.gif smile.gif smile.gif

[ 11-22-2005, 02:46 AM: Message edited by: Paul G ]

[Jon Zerndt]

I guess I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but I just don't get it.

pernicious
1. causing injury, destruction, or ruin; fatal; deadly
2. [Rare], wicked; evil

atavism
1. resemblance to a remote ancestor in some characteristic which nearer ancestors do not have
2. reversion to a primitive type

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid195/pf4e13ad5ce810a0bd63d686364f83b6b/f15b14e8.jpg

[Keith Wilson]

For clamping, I use a combination of cable ties (cheap) and hose clamps (good for drawing a round thing together). I coat everything with epoxy and wrestle the epoxy-covered snakes into submission. Then, starting at one end, I draw the staves together using a hose clamp and a nut-driver but in the cordless drill. A cable tie holds it together, and epoxy doesn't stick to nylon. It's a lot better if you have a real cable tie gun, since it's hard to get then tight enough by hand. You can move down the spar, drawing it up with the hose clamp and holding it with cable ties.

By some definitions, anyone who has a wooden boat is a pernicious atavist. ;)

[ 11-22-2005, 10:27 AM: Message edited by: Keith Wilson ]

[Dave Lesser]

Another way to clamp round items for gluing is with strips of old inner tube. Use truck tubes if you can find them, cut into 2-3 inch strips. With each wrap that you take the clamping pressure increases - tight enough to squeeze the leg off an elephant. A little wax on the first layer of the tube ensures that glue won't stick to it. They're quick and easy and they don't mar the wood, although you can get some crushed fibers of you wrap too tight on soft woods. You can secure the end with a tack or a cable tie.

[Pernicious Atavist]

good ideas here!

jon...JON? harumph

[Yakhook]

PA,

I make up 8 and 12 sided tapered, variable cross section Birdsmouth Shafts and Spars. My method incorporates several suggestions made here (and on the last Post). I pre-coat the joint surfaces with Unfilled West System Epoxy using their #206 (slow) Hardener. Then use a moderate High Density Fiber Epoxy mix to reduce adhesive layer flow and fill gaps or potential voids in the laminate.

I locate all the sections in proper orientation and sequence then grab the mess in the middle with a stainless Hose Clamp tightened with a cordless screwdriver/ socket head conversion (wrap the handle in a baggie to keep the epoxy off) ;) . Next, cinch the loose end of a spool of monofilament line around the assembly next to the clamp and wind the line tightly around the shaft to the end. Spacing is about 3" to 4" from coil to coil (increasing with shaft diameter). Tightly is: cutting into soft woods. Repeat for the other half. Then, because you used Monofilament instead of a number of hose clamps, you can and (more often than not) will :rolleyes: need to Straighten the shaft before it sets up.

Another advantage to the monofilament is that you can plane right through it when shaping if you can't pull all of it free after the Epoxy cures (I let it sit 72 Hrs.) especially before using power tools on it (thats just my personal rule ;) ).

Paul

[Pernicious Atavist]

great idea--to use mono

[JimConlin]

How do you secure the tail end of the monofilament ?
Does the spiral wind of the mono tend to twist the bundle? I'd suppose that this effect would be most pronounced on smaller spars.
I'd think that a second mono wrap in the other directon would counter this.

[ 11-23-2005, 06:10 PM: Message edited by: JimConlin ]

[Buddy Sharpton]

What's birdseye about the mast. I thought because of the "v" channel in one side of the staves resembled the birdsmouth notch of a rafter where it rests on the wall of a house (which resembles the v of an birds open mouth). I thought birdseye was the name for the figured pattern of some pieces of some woods like maple where small round blemishes are so numerous that the pattern itself becomes beautiful.
A birdseye maple neck on a guitar is an added cost upgrade.

[Yakhook]

PA ,
I can’t take credit for the Monofilament Idea. Picked it up in an a messing about in BOATS article by Robb White who was passing it on from someone else. ;)

Jim ,
The end is secured with a few hitches pulled up very tight. It doesn’t matter if the third or forth one is so tight it breaks the ( 20# ) line. Yes, the bundle twists. But, it will twist, bend and wave anyway! The Mono allows you to straighten it more easily than clamps. smile.gif

Paul

[Lewisboats]

Originally posted by Buddy Sharpton:
What's birdseye about the mast. I thought because of the "v" channel in one side of the staves resembled the birdsmouth notch of a rafter where it rests on the wall of a house (which resembles the v of an birds open mouth). I thought birdseye was the name for the figured pattern of some pieces of some woods like maple where small round blemishes are so numerous that the pattern itself becomes beautiful.
A birdseye maple neck on a guitar is an added cost upgrade.As stated before... the term is BirdsMOUTH not BirdsEYE...Just a mistype. It does refer to the Vee shape of an open bird's mouth.

Steve

[Lewisboats]

Originally posted by Tom Lathrop:
Epoxy stands out as the best choice by far. There is too much ill founded negativism about epoxy on this forum. It's just a building material with a few minuses and a lot of plusses. Get over it.RUBBER/LATEX/NYLON/NYTRIL/POLY-SOMETHING GLOVES, Sleeves too if you are sloppy!

Steve