Opinions about NIS boats , Nigel Irens Rom/Rox, and CH31 boat

[luizebs]

Hi All,

I would like to have your opinions, specially from those who have seen or sailed them (or against them in regattas) , as I am thinking about building a sailboat and these are three good candidates...
1- Norwalk Islands Sharpies 26 feet / 29 feet
2- Nigel Irens Romilly or Roxanne
3- Center Harbor 31

(well, actually that makes 5 boats and not 3... http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif )

I am looking for some boat with enough space to spend the weekend, and a reasonable performance.

It must a have traditional looking. I would not be asking for performance, but obviously a more traditional looking boat would sacrifice interior space. So as I cannot have space, performance and beauty all together, I am opting to pick : beauty and performance with some usable space.

I heard wonderful things about these three models, but we never know what is meant when someone say the performance was superb. I always feel that the word superb may mean "much better than what we expected", which is subjective.


So I wonder if anyone can compare these sailboats among themselves and against modern cruisers, in the following topics:

1- Single or short crew handled
2- Performance in light winds
3- Performance in moderate winds
4- Sea handling in strong winds and high swells
5- Cheap to construct and maintain (I will have a professional naval carpenter to built it, but even so, I will pay by labor hours, so the simplest construction will be an advantave)
6- Best investment if one day I decide to sell

If I choose NIS boats, I still will have to decide between NIS26 and NIS29
And if I pick Nigel Irens, I still have to decide which one. Apparently however, they dont sell plans for Roxanne building, but a comparison would be helpful anyway...


Thanks for all opinions

[mizzenman]

A related question please: Does anybody know in which year the NIS-boats where designed?

Sorry for the thread drift ;)

[rbgarr]

Eliminate the Center Harbor 31 (compared to the others) if cheap to construct is a priority.

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2002/Brooklin-Boat-Yard-Center-Harbor-31-2103130/Brooklin/ME/United-States

[JimD]

Eliminate the Center Harbor 31 (compared to the others) if cheap to construct is a priority.

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2002/Brooklin-Boat-Yard-Center-Harbor-31-2103130/Brooklin/ME/United-States

http://newimages.yachtworld.com/2/1/0/3/1/2103130_1.jpg?1253200022000

Second that.

[James McMullen]

If I were to win the Lotto*, I'd start building a Roxanne immediately. You can get plans for her, they just don't market them to the general public as it is a much bigger and more-complicated project than the average home-shop builder can usually pull off. If you have a reputable shipwright to build you one, he can get those plans. The Roxanne is a very much smaller, trailerable model. Several amateurs have built them quite successfully.

There is no finer rig for the singlehander than a cat-yawl, and that design is legendary for how well they sail. The NIS is a compromise hull shape, simplified to make it easier to build. Cheap to construct is often a false economy, though. Flat bottomed sharpies have poorer resale value than shapely boats, no matter how they perform. I don't know anything about the Center Harbor 31, but I've owned plenty of sloops. . .not my first choice for handling in strong winds and swells. A divided rig is easier on short-handed crew. Still, either a Roxanne or a CH 31, properly built, should have as much resale value as any good custom boat. . .not nearly as much as you'll put into her, alas.

Cheap to maintain is partly a matter of how often you work on keeping her up, as much as it is in using top quality materials and methods. Any of these boats, properly built, will cost pretty much the same amount of time and money to keep in tip-top, bristol fashion.


*(which would be pretty hard since I never buy a ticket)

[luizebs]

I dont get it...

Sorry for my ignorance, but why does it get so expensive?

Shouldnt it be cheaper than to buy a brand new one?

Where are the expensive parts?
I read it does not make too much difference in the final price the fact that it is curved hull or multi-chine... Is that true?

I can do with spartan accomodations inside , and with keeping things simple like a porta-potti, etc... I dont need a complex hydraulic instalation to start with...

Still, I imagine the carbon mast may be expensive (do they need autoclaves to cure, or may be simply laminated with resin?)


I have the space and the infrastructure without having to pay anything. The only things I will have to pay for is the labor, the material and the project.

Labor is cheap down here compared to other countries.

And we dont have these kind of boats down here to buy used... We only have plastic boxes... Which makes me think there will be generally a awakened interest in this kind of boats, and maybe the reselling price (if I ever need to resell it) will be good. I dont know...

[keyhavenpotterer]

Roxanne is currently being built in strip plank in the UK by Dick Phillips - the build is featured in Water Craft, our UK equivalent of Wooden Boat.

http://www.dickphillips.co.uk/docs/Roxy.pdf

http://www.dickphillips.co.uk/

http://www.watercraft.co.uk/backs.htm

Romilly is not comparable to your other listed designs, she is much smaller.

There was a Roxanne for sale a while back - I think it was listed at about £40k

Plans are listed as available from Nigel Irens - +44(0)1364 652554

Brian

[Hwyl]

...


Labor is cheap down here compared to other countries.


You never said that in your original post; labour will still be more hours for the Center Harbor. But you need to give more information

[luizebs]

You never said that in your original post; labour will still be more hours for the Center Harbor. But you need to give more information

I expect one professional carpenter to cost me 1500 to 2000 dollars (american dollars) each month. One specialized guy with one (cheaper) auxilliary would be no more than $2500.

I have a free location (no rent) to build the boat. Some big tools and machines are also available, and I will not have to pay for them.

[luizebs]

Roxanne is currently being built in strip plank in the UK by Dick Phillips - the build is featured in Water Craft, our UK equivalent of Wooden Boat.

http://www.dickphillips.co.uk/docs/Roxy.pdf

http://www.dickphillips.co.uk/

http://www.watercraft.co.uk/backs.htm

Romilly is not comparable to your other listed designs, she is much smaller.

There was a Roxanne for sale a while back - I think it was listed at about £40k

Plans are listed as available from Nigel Irens - +44(0)1364 652554

Brian


Unfortunatelly it would not be possible to buy a used Roxanne (I live in Brazil). Anyway, this price is still too high... I would expect to build one for less than that. Do you think it would be possible? (see above the price for labor and that I dont have to pay for the location rent)

[andrewe]

Your choice of boats is curious, the NIS ones will give you the best bang for the buck, but are not realy comparable to the other two. Nigels's boats are elegent modern ideas on trad lines. The CH31 is very trad (I am not sure how it is built, strip or plank on frame?) But the NIS are quicky ply dory/sharpie designs aimed at home builders. The options for the mast are ally or carbon (don't try to build your own carbon) Savings on rig will compensate for the extra cost of the carbon masts.
I was going to say that the reasale value depends on the acceptance of trad or ply/dory types in your area. But I have no idea what that would be in Brazil.
Comprimentos
Andrew

[luizebs]

Your choice of boats is curious, the NIS ones will give you the best bang for the buck, but are not realy comparable to the other two. Nigels's boats are elegent modern ideas on trad lines. The CH31 is very trad (I am not sure how it is built, strip or plank on frame?) But the NIS are quicky ply dory/sharpie designs aimed at home builders. The options for the mast are ally or carbon (don't try to build your own carbon) Savings on rig will compensate for the extra cost of the carbon masts.
I was going to say that the reasale value depends on the acceptance of trad or ply/dory types in your area. But I have no idea what that would be in Brazil.
Comprimentos
Andrew

You are right, I am still undecided and open minded about which sailboat would be best for me.
To tell the truth, it will depend a lot on what it offers for the invested money, and what would be the reselling price if I ever decide to (have to) sell.

I value coastal capability, some performance (dont want buoys that move) and some comfort inside and outside.

I dont have much money and an opportunity knocked my door to build a sailboat in a cheap way...

I am trying to find the best way to take advantage of this cheap-build opportunity...

I initially considered a modified version of Shields class (just like the guy from the knockabout sloops)...

But I heard some not-so-nice things about this S&S boat...

I trying to find out if there would be any better boat... in terms of what I get from the money I spend...

[KAIROS]

What waters will you sail in...how deep....exposed or protected? Is moorage an issue.....would trailerability be good?

[luizebs]

What waters will you sail in...how deep....exposed or protected? Is moorage an issue.....would trailerability be good?

Mainly protected waters (in our bay), but eventually a 70 nm coastal cruise.

Moorage is not a big issue. Trailerability is not necessary (I dont even have a powerful car to trail it)

If draft is low, it would be better for getting close to island and even for regular services in the hull at our club.

But it is not a must.

[Sailing Dreams]

We sailed on a Roxanne called Mischief - she was great to sail, fast and nimble, my only concern was handling that huge mainsail in bad weather. There were no guard rails and the boat is a little tender - gathering up that big sail was a hand ful even in the perfect condition we sailed in.

A local guy in chichester built a Roxanne hull but with more conventional gaff cutter rig (i think or it might have been a yawl) It was (is) a great boat - called Grey Merlin - which might be a better choice depending on the type of sailing you want to do.

Accomodation was compact, but if you accept no standing headroom I recall it was well laid out with some good storage etc.

http://bursledonblog.blogspot.com/