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McMike
11-19-2009, 08:31 AM
http://hartford.craigslist.org/mnu/1471846336.html (http://hartford.craigslist.org/mnu/1471846336.html)
Shop foreman, Manager of 10-15 Employees for $14/hour. Iím screwed if thatís what Iím worth now.:eek:

goodbasil
11-19-2009, 08:34 AM
It's an employers market out there.

elf
11-19-2009, 08:36 AM
It's the new job market. If offshore labor is inexpensive then guess what. To compete American labor must become inexpensive or the jobs will go offshore.

Very simple.

Mr. Clinton should have thought about that.

McMike
11-19-2009, 08:45 AM
Unfortunately it doesn’t match cost of living. At $14/hour I could barely afford a room for rent in someone’s home never mind supporting 2 kids and a house, remember I live in CT not KS. I may have to take a job at this pay scale in the future but this is insane and unsustainable for folks like me. We’re in trouble if this is what we’re in for from here on out.

Tylerdurden
11-19-2009, 08:46 AM
Don't be discouraged, I get the same now. I had some idiot who wanted to pay me the going rate for the rest of his crew. The only problem was I would be the only one who was licensed and he wanted to work under my license. I pointed that out to him and he said It was my problem not his. Cheaters and criminals rule now.

Welcome to the new world order, your no good unless your taking advantage of someone.

phiil
11-19-2009, 08:50 AM
Actually, the ad says $14/hour or DOE. (depending on experience)
We can hope that $14 is the starting point, and a seasoned manager can command more. I was recently a VP of a small manufacturing plant in CT, and even our drill press pumpers got more than that.

McMike
11-19-2009, 09:01 AM
Don't be discouraged, I get the same now. I had some idiot who wanted to pay me the going rate for the rest of his crew. The only problem was I would be the only one who was licensed and he wanted to work under my license. I pointed that out to him and he said It was my problem not his. Cheaters and criminals rule now.

Welcome to the new world order, your no good unless your taking advantage of someone.


I rarely agree with your conspiracy theories. This time Iím beginning to see you may be right, in this regard at least.

My oldest is going to college in 3-1/2 years. We structured our finances to be able to absorb a lot of that expense without having to get a mortgage on the house. If I have to except a $10,000-$20,000 a year pay cut, heís on his own. We did everything right and lived well under our means, we were saving $3000 a month before I was laid off. Weíve been very frugal. Iím sure it wonít be as bad as I fear but itís hard to see that now.

elf
11-19-2009, 09:04 AM
Unfortunately it doesn’t match cost of living. At $14/hour I could barely afford a room for rent in someone’s home never mind supporting 2 kids and a house, remember I live in CT not KS. I may have to take a job at this pay scale in the future but this is insane and unsustainable for folks like me. We’re in trouble if this is what we’re in for from here on out.


You don't understand, Mike. Our standard of living is obscenely high and abusive of just about every element of life on earth.

You just need to accept the reduction in your standard of living!

(Also, this size 2 font is too small for my eyes. So I put your quote back to normal size.)

McMike
11-19-2009, 09:10 AM
Actually, the ad says $14/hour or DOE. (depending on experience)
We can hope that $14 is the starting point, and a seasoned manager can command more. I was recently a VP of a small manufacturing plant in CT, and even our drill press pumpers got more than that.


I know, 5 years ago I was making that as a 2nd year cabinetmaker I canít even afford to go back to school to finish my degree. I have to work to make ends meat.

I've received a "letter of intent" from another company that states they want to hire if they get the contracts they anticipate will come through within the next month. Itís $8000 less than what I was making before, Iíll probably take it if it comes through. Itís not an easy pill to swallow.

Tylerdurden
11-19-2009, 09:11 AM
I rarely agree with your conspiracy theories. This time Iím beginning to see you may be right, in this regard at least.

My oldest is going to college in 3-1/2 years. We structured our finances to be able to absorb a lot of that expense without having to get a mortgage on the house. If I have to except a $10,000-$20,000 a year pay cut, heís on his own. We did everything right and lived well under our means, we were saving $3000 a month before I was laid off. Weíve been very frugal. Iím sure it wonít be as bad as I fear but itís hard to see that now.



I know what you are saying, I spent all my savings on the kids schools as it was the right thing to do. I may be broke now but it sure beats having that kind of debt hanging over my head.

Jim Ledger
11-19-2009, 09:26 AM
You don't understand, Mike. Our standard of living is obscenely high and abusive of just about every element of life on earth.

You just need to accept the reduction in your standard of living!


Mike, you could do as Elf does, if you want to go somewhere, borrow someone elses car. :D

McMike
11-19-2009, 09:32 AM
You don't understand, Mike. Our standard of living is obscenely high and abusive of just about every element of life on earth.

You just need to accept the reduction in your standard of living!

(Also, this size 2 font is too small for my eyes. So I put your quote back to normal size.)

You are right to a degree. However . . .

Iím not a huge consumer compared to many. For example, my home consumes 30%-40% less gas and electric than the regional average. And this despite the fact that, my boiler is 25 years old and my house is not insulated except for the 1" ridged foam under the siding, my point is, I am very frugal. My family wears clothes until they donít fit or they fall off. The only things we have that are extravagant are the two relatively new cars, which BTW is our only debt. I rewired my stove when it broke instead of buying a new one. I replaced the pulleys and belt in my dryer instead of buying a new one. We even got our dog used. I donít think we qualify as the standard American picture of gluttony.

Elf, itís kind of hard to hear you tell me to suck it up as if somehow we deserve to loose the ground my wife and I have worked so hard to reach.

L.W. Baxter
11-19-2009, 09:36 AM
Mike, you could do as Elf does, if you want to go somewhere, borrow someone elses car. :D

We'd be better off if everyone lived that way!

Jim Ledger
11-19-2009, 09:46 AM
We'd be better off if everyone lived that way!


Let me use your boat this weekend, OK? Make sure you fill the tank.:D

Dan McCosh
11-19-2009, 09:56 AM
Might note that pay in auto plants, formerly among the highest industrial wages in the US, is now $14 an hour.

SamSam
11-19-2009, 09:57 AM
McMike, I seriously think the best thing you could do for a short term, partial solution to your problem is to get more education and the best thing to learn would be Spanish.

Saltiguy
11-19-2009, 09:59 AM
One of the best things I ever did was to get the hell out of Connecticut.

Tylerdurden
11-19-2009, 10:00 AM
It's endemic and most don't even recognize it.

A quote from "The Dollar meltdown" http://thedollarmeltdown.com/ sum's it up nicely.


"Americaís national government has moved way beyond a political spoils system. A spoils system leaves the host alive so that a politicianís occasional neíer-do-well brother-in-law can be put on the payroll. America has become a piŮata: everybody gets a crack at it. Presidents and other elected officials pass the big stick around as a reward to those who help keep them in charge of the piŮata party. The American media plays the role of the partyís mariachi bank, keeping festive spirits high. And the people in their demographic and interest groups all line up to take a whack at the goodies. America has become a piŮata. "

Charles Goyette

McMike
11-19-2009, 10:01 AM
We'd be better off if everyone lived that way!

That would be great, Iím honestly on board. To bad I canít afford to live anywhere near the work I do in Fairfield County. I live in New Haven County and itís expensive. So before I got laid off I was traveling 42 miles one way to work. Donít think I could borrow a car for that.

McMike
11-19-2009, 10:07 AM
One of the best things I ever did was to get the hell out of Connecticut.

Iím tied here due to family responsibilities otherwise weíd be out of here.

L.W. Baxter
11-19-2009, 10:27 AM
I should have added a winky, McMike, sorry for the confusion.

McMike
11-19-2009, 10:29 AM
I should have added a winky, McMike, sorry for the confusion.

No worries, I took no offence.

Jim Ledger
11-19-2009, 10:32 AM
I should have added a winky, McMike, sorry for the confusion.

So, I guess you won't be lending me the boat after all, LW? :(

Tylerdurden
11-19-2009, 10:37 AM
The only time I would recommend a move is if the Job was rock solid or it was to get out of a heavily populated area.
I got one I am in process with that would require a move. I told them Its a massive risk for me to take on faith so they need to kick in moving expenses and 1st months rent. He didn't balk so its still on.
Worst thing in the world is to haul arse and find a boarded up window when you get there.

George Roberts
11-19-2009, 11:02 AM
$14/hr is not all that bad.

60 hours a week puts pay at $50K/yr. Add in what ever fringe benefits.

McMike
11-19-2009, 11:12 AM
$14/hr is not all that bad.

60 hours a week puts pay at $50K/yr. Add in what ever fringe benefits.


God I hope you're kidding!

Jim Ledger
11-19-2009, 11:33 AM
God I hope you're kidding!

Doubtful, and this might be a good time to try out the Ignore function, Mike.

TimH
11-19-2009, 12:51 PM
Long story.

McMike
11-19-2009, 12:52 PM
Given the job market, it’ll be a while before I have anything better to do. We're all ears.

L.W. Baxter
11-19-2009, 01:09 PM
So, I guess you won't be lending me the boat after all, LW? :(

Anytime, Jim! You might want to check the weekend weather prognosis (http://www.wrh.noaa.gov/pqr/) before you head this direction though.:D

bobbys
11-19-2009, 01:28 PM
I was gonna apply but the reliable, punctual, great attendance part of it foiled my plans!

mobjack68
11-19-2009, 01:43 PM
Ok...who wants a real job??

My wife and I must sell our greenhouse/nursery business due to her health problems. Our asking price is what the business grossed last year and we are only open 8 months out of the year. We have done some projections and there a couple of other avenues of revenue for someone that would want to be open 12 months a year that could equate to another 25% increase over our gross.
You can be your own boss and hold down between 55k and 70k depending on how hard you want to work....

It seems that the current business model has moved from "bigger is better" to that of a more local, diversified attitude. The failure of the largest banks in the nation?? too much to manage, GM, Chrysler?? too big for their own britches.. I see a drastic change back to the way business used to run and I believe that in order for businesses to survive, they either need to be small enough to manage efficiently or they need to be a niche business...something that cannot be sent overseas!! Think about a plumber or an electrician...My floriculture business will not be sent overseas, will not be in competition with the box stores and in the current market of home gardening??? We do not have enough space to grow enough vegetable plants to supply the needs of the local economy. Our walmart last year had plants rotting on the shelf and we were selling out.....Any takers?? 24426 on Flashearth.com, right beside the interstate...median income for our community is about 35k, you can still buy a decent home for 40k.....

Nicholas Carey
11-19-2009, 01:43 PM
I see ads like that on Seattle's CL all the time: "experienced network/system administrator, MCSE required, experienced with Unix/Windows, Outlook/Exchange administration, SQL Server administration, 5+ years experience. Must be available for 24x7 on-call support. $12/hour."

[Just as an aside, in Seattle, a family of 4 with a household income of $65k or less -- that's $32.50/hour -- can qualify for subsidized housing.]

Ummmm....I could make that much working at Dick's Drive-In (local burger emporium) and get paid medical benefit, paid vacation, tuition reimbursement, etc. with a whole lot less stress. Or work at Nordstrom/Macy's etc.

I'm not sure if these people are delusional or are simply posting these ads to make the case for bringing in people from India as contractors (honest, we couldn't find any Americans to take the job...see? Here are all the ads we placed. No takers.)

SamSam
11-19-2009, 04:02 PM
$14/hr is not all that bad.

60 hours a week puts pay at $50K/yr. Add in what ever fringe benefits.

Good or bad depends on where you live and how far it (pay) goes.
It's not automatic that someone can work as many hours as they want. You work for yourself and can put in 60 hours if you want, some one who works for another usually doesn't have that option as employers don't want to pay overtime. Or they don't have the work.

McMike
11-19-2009, 05:00 PM
I used to live in Seattle. Check this out and you’ll see why 14/hour is not a good wage in CT.
It compares cost of living and salary from location to location.

http://swz.salary.com/CostOfLivingWizard/layoutscripts/coll_start.asp?presentsalary=35000&x=37&y=3

Jim Ledger
11-19-2009, 05:23 PM
It says that if I move to Broken Arrow I can retire. :D

TimH
11-19-2009, 05:41 PM
My goal is to live in the South Pacific and make 100k ;)

purri
11-19-2009, 07:01 PM
"Buy a house for $40K?" Lucky you, certainly not around this way!

PeterSibley
11-19-2009, 07:24 PM
God I hope you're kidding!

He's not ...Roberts has had a humour bypass .:rolleyes:

ripley699
11-19-2009, 07:32 PM
He's not ...Roberts has had a humour bypass .:rolleyes:

I don't care who you are ...Thats funny !!!!!!!

MiddleAgesMan
11-19-2009, 07:51 PM
The only chance for making good money today as a cabinetmaker working for the man is building aircraft interiors. Savannah Air has been looking for skilled workers as well as a foreman for many months. It's my understanding $14 might be the hourly rate for one of their sweeper-helpers.

Ted Hoppe
11-19-2009, 07:54 PM
Retool yourself. The chosen landscape around you reflects your dreams and aspirations. It is time you rework your networks. Pursue interesting leads and talk to folks who do things you are interested in. Make sure you care for yourself and get excersise.

You've got skills and broad knowledge that a one page resume does not reflect. If you hang out in the local home depot looking for back breaking work, you pick your fate. If you walk and talk with folks of like minds, you'll find your weight and remember your value.

Best advice I ever got was from my mother when I was 10. I said I was bored. She told me to go for a ride on my bike. I did, met new friends and saw the world. So... Go ride your bike - rain or shine!

p.s. Santa no longer uses the elf to take pictures of the workshop or toys. Elf will need to move in with second cousin dwarf Grumpy and register as domestic partners for health benefits...

George Roberts
11-19-2009, 08:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by McMike http://woodenboat.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://woodenboat.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2392985#post2392985)
God I hope you're kidding!

A lot of families have learned to live on less than $50K.

I don't think my wife and I have sent $50K on non-business expenses ever. (Maybe if you include the $12K we spent on vacations one year.) $15K is our typical annual expense, a couple live at home kids would cost less than $20K. Leaving $15K for savings. (No income tax on $50K.)

---

My wife says our SS income estimate has risen from $1100/month to $1500/month. Lovely.

perldog007
11-19-2009, 08:25 PM
hard to live on that where I am at. Based on what i remember of CT I don't fancy trying it. Nice place, but it didn't seem cheap.

McMike
11-19-2009, 09:02 PM
Not in CT George, check out the cost of living tool I linked above.

McMike
11-19-2009, 09:04 PM
"Buy a house for $40K?" Lucky you, certainly not around this way!

40k will only buy you a nice car in CT. Or a front yard in a shooting range.

perldog007
11-19-2009, 09:07 PM
40k will only buy you a nice car in CT. Or a front yard in a shooting range.

or extra clams at zupardi's

George Roberts
11-20-2009, 07:45 AM
Not in CT George, check out the cost of living tool I linked above.

Where you live is your choice.

Some people in CT have incomes of less than $50K. Some of those people are wise enough to live well.

Mrleft8
11-20-2009, 08:02 AM
or extra clams at zupardi's

Last I heard, a large whole belly clam pizza at Zupardi's was around $42.00...... Insanity!:eek:

McMike
11-20-2009, 11:52 AM
Where you live is your choice.

Some people in CT have incomes of less than $50K. Some of those people are wise enough to live well.


A lot of people have household incomes lower than 50K in CT. I assure you theyíre not taking 10K worth of vacations per year. I can assure you 50Ka year is barely squeaking buy here. It can be done on less. But to live the so-called American Dream you need much more.

Here is the average listing prices in CT, granted you can own a home for less but take into account that Iíd like my kids to get home safe every day. http://www.trulia.com/home_prices/Connecticut/

Did you check out the cost of living calculator I posted yesterday? Match your cost of living with New Haven County, CT. Iím not making this up here. Youíre cost of living is 18% lower. But then so is your average income.

And if you choose to ignore the facts then I guess Iím not wise. There, you got me to admit it, you win . . .

elf
11-20-2009, 12:18 PM
Mike, the best thing to do with George Roberts is to put him on ignore. He generally isn't very well informed and and has a lot of problems with being humane.

Jim Ledger
11-20-2009, 12:24 PM
Elf's right, Mike.

If there's a thread about someone looking for work, you can guarantee that George will find a smug way to tell him that he has only himself to blame.

TimH
11-20-2009, 01:06 PM
Mike, the best thing to do with George Roberts is to put him on ignore. He generally isn't very well informed and and has a lot of problems with being humane.

Theres the understatement of the year!

McMike
11-20-2009, 01:50 PM
GOt it.

JTA
11-20-2009, 02:01 PM
He generally isn't very well informed and and has a lot of problems with being humane.

Bet you dollars to doughnuts he has already reported this post to Scot with threats of a lawsuit if it is not taken down soon.

George Roberts
11-20-2009, 04:19 PM
I can assure you 50Ka year is barely squeaking buy here. It can be done on less. But to live the so-called American Dream you need much more.


There is no right to live the American dream, but

If it takes you more than $50K/year to live in the manner you wish, I would suggest that you find a way to earn more than $50K/year. Consuming savings or other assets seems to be a reasonable way to do so - even while working a $50K/year job.

elf
11-20-2009, 07:36 PM
Theres the understatement of the year!

Just being a real liberal.