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TimH
11-18-2009, 01:27 PM
I dont trust those others. Lets have our own.

Just a simple yay or nay will suffice. Non US citizens welcome to vote too :D

huisjen
11-18-2009, 01:35 PM
A better poll would have three options.

1)wish he was more progressive
2)approve
3)wish he was more conservative

Dan

John P Lebens
11-18-2009, 01:36 PM
How about illegal aliens?

Extraterrestrials who are visiting?

I approve of Obama

TimH
11-18-2009, 01:45 PM
Well so far its not 50%.

Chris Coose
11-18-2009, 02:12 PM
I hope this guy gets to do some real work in the next couple of years rather than mopping up after the rich Texan.

perldog007
11-18-2009, 02:15 PM
I hope this guy gets to do some real work in the next couple of years rather than mopping up after the rich Texan.
He already admitted to holding the mop wrong and using a socialist mop. it was on Leno and everything.

pefjr
11-18-2009, 02:15 PM
I hope this guy gets to do some real work in the next couple of years rather than mopping up after the rich Texan.Just curious, at what point do you think you can let this go? I mean, are you seeking help? If not, maybe you should. :D

Taylor Tarvin
11-18-2009, 02:23 PM
[quote=pefjr;2391754]Just curious, at what point do you think you can let this go? I mean, are you seeking help? If not, maybe you should. :D[/quo

A good guess would be when the other side lets go of Clinton.

MiddleAgesMan
11-18-2009, 02:27 PM
At what point did the Reps quit blaming all their problems on Clinton? By my recollection the die-hard Reps were saying the recession actually started under Clinton's watch, right up until December of '08. They said the same about the war on terror--Clinton didn't fight it right so Bush was left with an impossible task.

So I would have no problem setting that "point" right around December of 2016. ;)

Phillip Allen
11-18-2009, 02:30 PM
ya need a third choice...for me the jury is still out

johnw
11-18-2009, 02:52 PM
Just curious, at what point do you think you can let this go? I mean, are you seeking help? If not, maybe you should. :D
With luck, persistence and skill, we might fix everything he screwed up in a generation.

pefjr
11-18-2009, 02:53 PM
ruin of the previous administration is put behind us.I think it's more of a sickness of placing blame on a scapegoat. He was elected(maybe blame the voters) 2 times and Congress and the Supreme Court does have a responsibility in this picture of any wrong doing. Plus, I can see a lot of good that was accomplished by the previous Admin. I can't seem to get that through to the libs. But I am over it, and looking forward.

Lew Barrett
11-18-2009, 02:54 PM
We have been in crisis management mode for the better part of three years now. We have to get out of the foul place we are in before anything real can be accomplished. And it would be nice if the opposition would offer something other than pure obstruction.

I think the key for Obama to be able to implement meaningful improvements (change, if you will) is for his administration to develop a strong plan for putting the minority opposition in proper perspective. Once that distraction is out of the way, maybe the new guns can make some clear moves. Until then I will believe that the change we voted for is not entirely the change we are seeing.

We can stop pointing fingers at Bush and Co. when conservatives stop pointing fingers at the agents of real change, obstructing anything progressive at every turn.

perldog007
11-18-2009, 03:08 PM
It is entirely valid to take into consideration the terrible condition the country was in when BHO took office. The previous administration handed over a country that was on the brink of collapse. Should we simply ignore this fact?

......

I think we need to ignore that Terry, and not as a slam against President Obama or any vindication of Bush. I agree that the country was not handed over in any kind of condition near what it was when W. took over.

Going back to W., he ran for office knowing that the country was in a recession and was apparently critical of Clinton's foreign policy especially regarding attacks by terrorists.

For W. to say that he was saddled with a recession and an emboldened enemy would then be disingenuous ( if I am not mistaken he or his supporters made those points at least once) . He asked for the job, we gave it to him. He said he could do it.

President Obama knew what he was asking for, we chose him. He said he had a plan to turn it around, we gave him that too. I am all for hanging in there and giving him some more time to succeed, but making excuses on the past administration? Not so much.

We can't let our politicians get away with that. They can hold the mop any way they want, and use whatever kind of mop the legislature allows. But they need to keep mopping until they do the job they promised us they would do.

My other point would be that the state the country was in likely contributed to the electorate rejecting the party and platform of the incumbent.

If everybody had been chasing butterflies in hybrid cars and buying all the video games they wanted without regard for thrift, then the republicans might still be in charge.

Cuyahoga Chuck
11-18-2009, 03:41 PM
I was born in the last depression and it occured to me I might live out my days during a similar one. It seems I have been spared what my parents went thru'.
Obama be praised.

BA.Barcolounger
11-18-2009, 04:21 PM
I was born in the last depression and it occured to me I might live out my days during a similar one. It seems I have been spared what my parents went thru'.
Obama be praised.

Do you realize that this one started in 2007?

TimH
11-18-2009, 04:31 PM
well lookie there....almost 70% :)

Tylerdurden
11-18-2009, 04:45 PM
I always knew there was a liberal bias here even in the good old days when I tore up on Bush.
I think what amazes me is the huge amount of bull****e Americans accept on faith as I sure as hell cannot find any facts to credit him on.

The guy hasn't kept any promises and has done a 180 on just about all of them NAFTA, open government , domestic spying and signing statements. Lets not even include the Guanotomo backpedeal, Secret renditions and cuts in spending. Oh, and the one where lobbyists will not serve in his administration. I forgot that one.

No offense but you people are asleep at the wheel and really need an enema. Ones coming but you don't believe that one either.
This should be fun to watch.;)
Sell all your gold now the bubble is about to burst.

pefjr
11-18-2009, 04:46 PM
I was born in the last depression and it occured to me I might live out my days during a similar one. It seems I have been spared what my parents went thru'.
Obama be praised.

BS, there is no comparison with The Great Depression and the current recession. You only have look at the difference in standard of living. The GD started in 1929. My grandparents told me how they suffered. But in 1951 they still had an outhouse and they told me they were never more happy. "Satisfied" is the word my Grandma used. Today we flush 4/5 gals every time we pp, how many have 3 car garages. We all have ipods and microwaves. I could go on but its unnecessary to make the point: Its all in the mind. Why can't a person not be "satisfied"? Alex Rodriquez is not satisfied with 33 million a year. I am 'satisfied" with a lot less, and need no president to worship.

Lew Barrett
11-18-2009, 05:10 PM
BS, there is no comparison with The Great Depression and the current recession. You only have look at the difference in standard of living. The GD started in 1929. My grandparents told me how they suffered. But in 1951 they still had an outhouse and they told me they were never more happy. "Satisfied" is the word my Grandma used. Today we flush 4/5 gals every time we pp, how many have 3 car garages. We all have ipods and microwaves. I could go on but its unnecessary to make the point: Its all in the mind. Why can't a person not be "satisfied"? Alex Rodriquez is not satisfied with 33 million a year. I am 'satisfied" with a lot less, and need no president to worship.

I am not sure exactly what or where this is going, but I agree 100% with what you are saying in respect to "satisfaction." We live in entirely different and more complex times. But in my view, not necessarily better. And in many ways, less hopeful.

Until unemployment issues are solved here, there is no possibility of a real recovery. The "Wall Street" recovery is mostly smoke and mirrors. Despite my general admiration of Obama, and my sense that the hole we were dug into was indeed very deep, I do not believe we have been led out of the problem as yet. That's just a sad take on it.

Difference is I don't believe any (or much) of this can be laid at Obama's fee and playing "catch up" is a whole lot tougher than anybody thought it would be. As for the broken promises regarding Gitmo (etc....made by TD, not you)....yeah. Disappointing.

Phillip Allen
11-18-2009, 05:18 PM
I'm certainly not blaming this situation on Obama...he's got 4 years to make an impression on me...till then...

John P Lebens
11-18-2009, 05:26 PM
(Oops - got a little carried away with this!)

I will never forget an article I read in Barron's magazine several months ago. The author urged voters to look at what politicians spend, not what they do with taxes. Remarkably, the biggest spikes in spending over the past 40 years (according to the Barron's graphic) came during Republican Administrations. Think of the debt rung up by the two Bushes and Reagan compared to Clinton. I have heard that on the order of 90% of the US debt accrued during the life of the republic was accumulated under these so called fiscal conservatives. We know for sure that half was accumulated under George W alone. (from 5 to 10 or 11 trillion)

The strategic method for Republicans is brilliant - talk about keeping taxes low (and even reduce them for the wealthy), but keep spending anyway. Run up a huge debt. Then when the Democrats get elected and have to find a way to pay it off, usually involving some tax increases, raise hell with their policies.

So let's take Obama - who inherited a doubling of the national debt and record annual deficits from George W. Further, "W" had taken the war expenses off the regular budget, so some of that was hidden from the balance. Those war costs keep right on and are hard to slow. Bush era tax cuts and spending left the USA's balance sheets stretched to the limit. Then the financial melt-down hit, government balance sheets were further ruined because of reduced tax revenues.

Almost all economists believe the responsible thing for a government to do when faced with a recession is to apply Keynesian economics and increase government spending. This was no garden variety recession so it required HUGE government spending to cushion the fall. So, on cue, the Republicans begin to oppose the stimulus plan (after apparently wasting a lot of the $700 Billion spent on TARP) and all other efforts Obama is making to pull the USA out of this economic nosedive.

Lot's of people believe now that Obama and the Democrats are the big spenders, not the Republican administrations. In my view, Democrats have been forced to spend to re-float this devastated economy. Once things are stabilized and revenues pick up, will the focus shift to better financial management that almost all of us (left, right or center) want? Time will tell.

Meanwhile, of course this country needs a change in its health care system! Every other industrialized country has figured this out - what's the matter with us?

Of course we need to deal with global climate change! Of course we need to make sure we are globally competitive with education! Sure we need to get our finances in order!

There is a significant chance that the democrats will run amok and spend too much, I will grant you, but where are the moderate Republicans who can partner with moderate democrats to find a reasonable balance?

They have been driven out of the party and most of what is left is the nihilistic right wing. This wing would rather see the country fail than cooperate with moderates.

The jury is out on Obama. Will he be able to effectively lead the country through the two wars and this financial catastrophe? Will he achieve comprehensive and lower cost health care? Will he be able to move the country toward cleaner energy and energy efficiency? Will he be able to fight off the rabid right (and left) to make some sensible changes? Will he show real financial discipline as the economy improves?

It is a tall order and he might fail, but I am glad we have a hard working, young, bright, well educated and yes, a moderate president in charge right now.

David G
11-18-2009, 05:40 PM
ya need a third choice...for me the jury is still out

Phillip,

I'm with you. Jury's still out.

I will admit, though, that in some ways he's impressed me more than I expected. In other ways... not so much. Still (as long as everyone insists on making comparisons) he seems to be substantially more competent than our former president - Mr. H. Hoover Jr., errrr... I mean, Mr. G.W. Bush.

Truly... I begin to despair of the Republican party. It's been clear for some time that continuing to be True Believers in the Crusade For Permanent Laissez-Faire Capitalism - combined with an increasingly narrow and intolerant social conservatism - was a trap. Wrong-headed, backwards-facing, and - as a practical matter - unworkable. Yet, the people who seem to hold the levers of power continue their ever-more-frantic shouting. "More steam", "Full Speed Ahead" they bellow, as fewer and fewer crew members and passengers heed them. As more and more the crew realizes that the Titanic is going down. As more passengers realize that however large, powerful, and impressive the vessel is... it might be time to take to a tiny, fragile, insecure life raft.

Where are the life rafts? I don't follow national politics closely, but I have to believe that there are some solid, competent, non-doctrinaire young Republicans out there. Governors? Congressmen? If you keep showing me Sarah Palins and Bobby Jindahls I'm gonna be inclined to write off the Republicans indefinitely.

elf
11-18-2009, 05:44 PM
Read the columnists on the Atlantic Magazine's site. Maybe you'll get a fuller picture of the problem.

John P Lebens
11-18-2009, 06:03 PM
Which columnists? Can you recommend an article or two?

Chris Coose
11-18-2009, 06:26 PM
Just curious, at what point do you think you can let this go? I mean, are you seeking help? If not, maybe you should. :D

Let go?
How can the guy find his stride when he was left with 2 absurdly managed wars, an economy in a catastropohic slide, a world discouraged by an American departure from its decency, a citizenry prompted to distinct ideological division, a raped energy policy, and as usual for Republican administrations, renewed defecit spending.
WTF? You blind?

I want to see this guy hit his stride. I think there is a lot more to be seen when he doesn't have to run industrial cleaning equipment all GDmned day.

pefjr
11-18-2009, 06:45 PM
Let go?
How can the guy find his stride when he was left with 2 absurdly managed wars, an economy in a catastropohic slide, a world discouraged by an American departure from its decency, a citizenry prompted to distinct ideological division, a raped energy policy, and as usual for Republican administrations, renewed defecit spending.
WTF? You blind?

I want to see this guy hit his stride. I think there is a lot more to be seen when he doesn't have to run industrial cleaning equipment all GDmned day.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVyH1C5P0o0&feature=related

Lew Barrett
11-18-2009, 06:50 PM
Do you realize that this one started in 2007?

You don't think it has deeper roots...just started when somebody noticed it was getting dimmer?

Good post, John.

John P Lebens
11-18-2009, 07:04 PM
OK, so I found this on the Huffington Post, but it is worth looking at.

"Apparently, the latest thing in "Debasing The Institutions You Pretend To Hold Dear In Order To Suggest That President Barack Obama Should Be Murdered Without Actually Coming Right Out And Saying So" goes by a shorter name: Psalm 109:8.

And Psalm 109:8 is just straight up memetastic, appearing on bumper stickers and T-shirts, all of which carry the benign sounding message, "Pray For Obama." But, as Gawker's John Cook points out, this is just one more in a "long line of cheekily coded Obama death threats." The verse in question reads: "May his days be few; may another take his place of leadership." That leads fairly naturally into the Psalm 109:9, "May his children be fatherless, and his wife a widow." You know, in case you miss the point." (not attributed, but I think this is the Rachel Maddow set-up for a video interview of a former evangelist who is talking about this - the interview is well worth watching)

For the full story check the links and judge for yourself.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/18/rachel-maddow-frank-schae_n_362415.html

Originally on the Christian Science Monitor - a credible, objective news outlet.

http://features.csmonitor.com/politics/2009/11/16/biblical-anti-obama-slogan-use-of-psalm-1098-funny-or-sinister/

perldog007
11-18-2009, 07:06 PM
Let go?
How can the guy find his stride when he was left with 2 absurdly managed wars, an economy in a catastropohic slide, a world discouraged by an American departure from its decency, a citizenry prompted to distinct ideological division, a raped energy policy, and as usual for Republican administrations, renewed defecit spending.
WTF? You blind?

I want to see this guy hit his stride. I think there is a lot more to be seen when he doesn't have to run industrial cleaning equipment all GDmned day.


Cleaning up the mess is the job he was hired to do, fairness aside. He will or he won't. The electorate is fickle and my guess is that 2012 and 2016 aren't going to have much to do with partisanship.

My guess is that if folks think they have enough Camrys, PS3s', and Dunkin Donut's gin-u-wine Lattes then the democrats maintain power.

If not the self centered swing voters will punt. When the masses feel disenfranchised in any way, it's always third and long.

LeeG
11-18-2009, 07:10 PM
shouldn't there be a third choice for pie?

johnw
11-18-2009, 07:16 PM
It's not a pie chart.

hokiefan
11-18-2009, 07:18 PM
The question is, "Do you approve of the job Obama is doing?" The answer to that is yes, with regards to what he has done so far. He isn't perfect, I'd like to see more White House leadership on healthcare as an example. But he's doing a pretty good job so far.

Does that mean he will end up being a good President? I don't know yet, remains to be seen. But thats not the question posed. He was for sure handed a pile of manure, and it will take a while for that to settle out. By the same token, 9/11 drop a pile on Bush as well. Hope the current pile is better handled in the long run. Time will tell.

Cheers,

Bobby

Lew Barrett
11-18-2009, 07:28 PM
By the same token, 9/11 drop a pile on Bush as well. Hope the current pile is better handled in the long run. Time will tell.

Cheers,

Bobby

I agree that the jury's out on Obama. But I disagree about the effects of 9/11 on Bush, or more acurately, the dynamic it presented him with. Oh sure, it was a horrible disaster and event to preside over, but in many ways, it gave him the clearest mandate any president in our post Ike era ever had....maybe his father's Kuwait mandate was a decent match...I don't know.

But for Bush Jr, the country was united, the people were aghast, the nation was ready to do his bidding, and we all felt a similar sense of need and longing for a wise government to lead us through. And we hoped he was that.

But they blew it.

hokiefan
11-18-2009, 07:34 PM
I agree that the jury's out on Obama. But I disagree about the effects of 9/11 on Bush, or more acurately, the dynamic it presented him with. Oh sure, it was a horrible disaster and event to preside over, but in many ways, it gave him the clearest mandate any presidfent in our post Ike era ever had. The country was united, the people were aghast, the nation was ready to do his bidding.

But they blew it.

9/11 was a double-edged sword for Bush. Was horrible to deal with and put a real damper on the economy for quite awhile. You're also right that it gave Bush a clear mandate, which he ultimately squandered. As I said the first time, I'm hoping this pile is better handled than Bush's. I think Obama is making a good start, hope the follow-through is good. We all need it.

Cheers,

Bobby

Lew Barrett
11-18-2009, 07:38 PM
Indeed. I would like to see some light at the end of the tunnel. I'm a bit pessimistic, maybe overly so. But I don't blame Obama one bit. I thought John L's short treatise helped inform my thoughts.

Lew Barrett
11-18-2009, 08:58 PM
Donn, we're not going to agree on this at this moment but did you read John Lebens post? I thought it rather handily expressed the problems that make taxing and spending complex issues for the sitting admin.

But John does a far better job of arguing the case than I do. If you have read it, I'd be interested in your reply to the questions he asks. It's not the post on this page...it's a longer one on page 2.

elf
11-18-2009, 09:09 PM
9/11 was just what the doctor ordered for the W. What a great opportunity to do what he really wanted to do all along - get back at Saddam for his idle blowhard threats. It was just a matter of time before Cheney would figure out how to bring that about, and figure he sure did.

I can just hear them: "First we look like we're doing the right thing - get into Afghanistan and force the Pashtun to let the Northern tribes have some power. Maybe that will open the way for big oil to get its pipeline before China wangles it."

"Then, once we've made it look as though catching bin Laden is just too hard, we can go get Saddam. It'll be a slam dunk. The Iraqis will welcome us with open arms, we'll catch Saddam and deal with him, they're civilized people and can take care of themselves once he's out of the way, and we can leave. Bingo. Mission accomplished."

pipefitter
11-18-2009, 09:44 PM
What is with all of these bad things that Obama was "given", "inherited", or perhaps even chanced upon by the way I keep seeing it said here?
He KNEW all of this before he ran for president and you folks were all in agreement with how he said he was going to handle it. He said he could deal with it. Why give him a free pass to screw up?

So, are all you worshipers now NOT in agreement with his strategies and we were all just hearing a bunch of BS as a way to say "my team is better than your team"? Nobody has any suggestions, or is that the same as saying, "I really didn't listen to the man or hold him to his word, I was just voting for some(any) kind of change"?

Quit giving the guy a break. He's the 'leader' of our country, not your buddy. Hold him to what HE said he could do along with the job description. Until we up our standards to what caliber of leader that is electable and realistically qualified to do the job and less with the celebrity worship BS that is a qualifier for everything else we stand for these days, the worse it is going to get, if that is even possible.

Phillip Allen
11-18-2009, 09:53 PM
What is with all of these bad things that Obama was "given", "inherited", or perhaps even chanced upon by the way I keep seeing it said here?
He KNEW all of this before he ran for president and you folks were all in agreement with how he said he was going to handle it. He said he could deal with it. Why give him a free pass to screw up?

So, are all you worshipers now NOT in agreement with his strategies and we were all just hearing a bunch of BS as a way to say "my team is better than your team"? Nobody has any suggestions, or is that the same as saying, "I really didn't listen to the man or hold him to his word, I was just voting for some(any) kind of change"?

Quit giving the guy a break. He's the 'leader' of our country, not your buddy. Hold him to what HE said he could do along with the job description. Until we up our standards to what caliber of leader that is electable and realistically qualified to do the job and less with the celebrity worship BS that is a qualifier for everything else we stand for these days, the worse it is going to get, if that is even possible.

good post...you will be ignored however

PatCox
11-18-2009, 10:03 PM
Losing an election, or a poll, is not "liberal bias." It simply means you are in the minority, and that the majority does not agree with you.

Its sad, the way conservatives say that the media, academia, and science all have a "liberal bias." Umm, no. The fact that the majority of the learned people who know whereof they speak disagree with conservative assertions on the areas of their expertise, says something much more profound about conservatism than about academia, science, and the media.

PatCox
11-18-2009, 10:06 PM
Hey Donn, W doubled our debt, and without the excuse of having to bail out the entire world facing a financial meltdown and second great depression. You should be offering to kiss his toes, he saved your investments, to the extent, as you often crow, that you keep them in equities.

John P Lebens
11-18-2009, 10:17 PM
Phil - not ignoring pipefitter...,

Re: "free pass" - I'm not offering Obama a free pass. I want a responsible, productive administration. I expect a heroic effort to get some health care reform, etc. I expect some substantial progress with energy policy.

"Worshipers" - not a chance - I am skeptical of any politician. I have my own expectations that I look for any president to meet. I expect fiscal responsibility, political effectiveness, following through with as many campaign promises as possible, integrity, honesty and results.

"Celebrity" - He IS the leader of the free world. But I have never been interested in anybody's celebrity status. Objectively speaking, he has a great education, he pulled off a huge political upset, he has been ambitious with his work agenda, he has decent values. I personally agree with his priorities.

By most standards Obama is a moderate. It has been so long since we've seen one that it might seem strange, but he is.

jclays
11-18-2009, 10:53 PM
I Dont trust him or his cronies. So thats and disapprove for me.

Paul Girouard
11-18-2009, 11:03 PM
9/11 was just what the doctor ordered for the W.




You are one bat$hit crazy lady elf.

Time to start that ignore list.

Lew Barrett
11-18-2009, 11:29 PM
Frequently, and with great enthusiasm.
If it is any consolation, there may be two more liberals taking up winter residence in a metropolitan area near you in the next couple of years. Maybe. That ought to tip the scales in Tennessee, eh?
Agree with you about elf. About the only place we disagree of any importance is motorcycle style. And I forgive you your choice of a cruiser!

Paul Girouard
11-18-2009, 11:33 PM
If it is any consolation, there may be two more liberals taking up winter residence in a metropolitan area near you in the next couple of years. Maybe. That ought to tip the scales in Tennessee, eh?





You planning one getting ACORN to get you voting rights in two states Lew:D

Lew Barrett
11-18-2009, 11:35 PM
Nah, I'll keep our voting address here to balance you out, Paul! ;)
Washington: A liberal bias and we plan to keep it that way.......

But a few months every year in Nashville might be nice if the girls are there.

TimH
11-18-2009, 11:36 PM
9/11 was just what the doctor ordered for the W. What a great opportunity to do what he really wanted to do all along - get back at Saddam for his idle blowhard threats. It was just a matter of time before Cheney would figure out how to bring that about, and figure he sure did.




The voice of truth hurts.

Lew Barrett
11-18-2009, 11:38 PM
55 to 26....WBF.....
A Liberal Bias and we Plan to keep it that way!

BTW, I suspect that despite protestations to the contrary, these numbers reflect the general mood in the country relatively closely.

And indeed, the Republican NeoCons screwed the pooch and that makes all the choices hard ones. The fact that they continue to wish to do so puts them in the way.

This fundamental is germane in any conversation that discusses the circumstances.

Cuyahoga Chuck
11-18-2009, 11:39 PM
BS, there is no comparison with The Great Depression and the current recession. You only have look at the difference in standard of living. The GD started in 1929. My grandparents told me how they suffered. But in 1951 they still had an outhouse and they told me they were never more happy. "Satisfied" is the word my Grandma used. Today we flush 4/5 gals every time we pp, how many have 3 car garages. We all have ipods and microwaves. I could go on but its unnecessary to make the point: Its all in the mind. Why can't a person not be "satisfied"? Alex Rodriquez is not satisfied with 33 million a year. I am 'satisfied" with a lot less, and need no president to worship.

You made a turn that I can't follow. What I was refering to is this.
In any serious economic downturn the danger is noone knows how low thing will go or how long the condition will last. If enough people quit spending either because they have no money or because they are fearful they might run out of money, as happened the last time, the economy can grind to a halt. And , as happened last time, even enormous injections of money by the federal government were not able to break the stalemate quickly and get money changing hands again.
The economy rides on public confidence. It can be a rather ephemeral thing. Once that confidence is lost it's damned hard road to get it back. In thre Great Depression things were so bad Franklin Roosevelt was worried the government might be overthrown by the unhappy masses.

Lew Barrett
11-18-2009, 11:42 PM
Ain't it though? Could happen as early as next fall.
I think it would be great fun. A lot of stuff is undergoing scrutiny and possible change chez Barrett. Most all; of it for the good. Some of it harder.
The last four years have been hard on most small independent business people. I won't have escaped that. The mid-south looks like one possible exciting option for us.

pefjr
11-19-2009, 12:50 AM
9/11 was just what the doctor ordered for the W. What a great opportunity to do what he really wanted to do all along - get back at Saddam for his idle blowhard threats. It was just a matter of time before Cheney would figure out how to bring that about, and figure he sure did.

I can just hear them: "First we look like we're doing the right thing - get into Afghanistan and force the Pashtun to let the Northern tribes have some power. Maybe that will open the way for big oil to get its pipeline before China wangles it."

"Then, once we've made it look as though catching bin Laden is just too hard, we can go get Saddam. It'll be a slam dunk. The Iraqis will welcome us with open arms, we'll catch Saddam and deal with him, they're civilized people and can take care of themselves once he's out of the way, and we can leave. Bingo. Mission accomplished."

What an imagination!! elf. There is hope for you. Once in a while I see a tiny little light in your posts, like you can see better than other libs. Now, imagine on this:

"Somewhere, someone is doing stuff(a lot of imagination here)as I post this to enable us(all of us) to live The American Dream". Now, this is on Obama's watch and its being done with the full knowledge and approval of the President. Now do you have a problem with that? Do you have a problem with Drones?

Furthermore, in the next few days our President is going to make a term breaking decision. Do I send more troops to die in Afghanistan? Do I fulfill the hopes of the Nobel PP committee? Are you gonna stand behind the President if he chooses to send troops and become a hypocrite? Course most libs are gonna say the same as Pelosi and Reid, "We support you Mr Prez. whatever you decide". The clock is ticking.:)