Screw/Nail and Glue construction

[jclays]

In building a Brockway style skiff, Plywood/frame screw/nail and glue. Do I ????
Tighten the screws until thickened epoxy gets some squeeze out then let it harden before I seat the screws completely?
Do I seat the screws all the way to their counter sunk positions and let the whole mess harden?
Do you install your screws by hand or use a cordless drill/screwdriver?
If I opt to use silicon bronze nails....
Do I drive them home and counter sink them or do I drive them enough to get a squeeze out let things harden then counter sink them the next day when the epoxy is hard?
Thanks
Jim
Ps In this style construction is there a real difference in which mechanical fastener is used ? I understand that the epoxy is the real fastening agent and if screws and or nails where removed the boat would still be fine.

[Mike Vogdes]

Yes you send the screws and nails to there final destination and let the epoxy go off letting everthing harden together. You do want to scrape and wipe all excess epoxy drips and runs befor it sets, makes it much easier.
Screw gun or cordless drill is the way to go. You are never gonna be able to pull ring shanked boat nails after they are driven, they are extreemly agressive, infact you may need a small pilot hole to drive them. It is true that epoxy once it goes off, will hold the whole thing together without fastenings.

[Thorne]

Well, I think a lot depends on the joint in question. Some glued joints / laps / whatever may hold without fasteners, others (like chine logs) may really need the backup provided by good fasteners.

Properly thickened epoxy should work just fine if you don't over-tighten the screws, and pre-coating the joints with regular or thinned epoxy should avoid the problem of too much absorption starving the joint.

As above, I also really don't like bronze (or any other) ring-shanked nails, and feel they should only be used on lower-quality, throw-away boats. Removal is destructive and painful for all concerned...

[JimD]

I prefer glue and screw. If you haven't found out already you soon will learn how easy it is the strip the head of a soft bronze screw. Correctly sized (as in big enough) pilot holes are essential. In some cases where it might be tricky to drive the screw with all that slippery epoxy around you might want to use a steel screw temporarily, then back it out before full cure and replace with the bronze.

[Candyfloss]

There is an inconsistent logic in the condemnation of ringgrips on the basis of not being able to remove them later. Screws driven thru epoxy will be non-removable also after the glue dries. And bronze screws will be non-removable after a decent time. Ask anyone who is restoring an old boat. Just saying.
Personally I don't use ringgrips because you have insufficient control over the tightness of your joint. And I hate applying that much violence to my carefully set-up construction. The only screws I ever leave in a boat are stainless, but mostly I use "drywall" screws & take them out after the glue sets up, always within 24 hrs. Square drive with a battery drill, or two, or three.

[hokiefan]

It is pretty hard to worry about the destruction caused by taking out a ringshank nail, when you are taking apart a joint glued together with epoxy. Seems like a pretty good combination to me. Bottom line, its not a joint built or intended to come apart again.

Now, I wouldn't use a ringshank nail to hang a carvel plank, but thats an entirely different can of worms.

Cheers,

Bobby

[Mike Vogdes]

It may be a good idea to gather some scrap wood and ply, ring shanked nails and screws and build yourself a glue and screw tool box before jumping into your project. Especially if you have never played around with epoxy. You will get a good idea of what to expect and how this stuff works. Its definitely not rocket science but it does require a little finesse.

[jclays]

Thanks for all the reply s. I am not too concerned with using nails and not being able to take things apart latter. It is a plywood Brockway style skiff. Once glued and screwed or nailed there will be nothing in the way of planks to replace. Large flat panels of plywood with epoxy glued and taped will never come apart anyway(hopefully). Reading on the Brockway boats galvanized roofing nails where used. My main concern was squeezing out too much epoxy from the joints if I drove the fasteners home before the goo went off.
Thanks again

[pipefitter]

After using ring nails, you get used to the sound of a properly set nail. I love using them. To remove the heads I use what is called a roto-broach, which is so sharp that it really doesn't fuss over bronze much at all. I can usually remove the head faster than I can clearing a typical screw for removal. I just use the smaller broach that the ID is close to the nail shank size. I use one of those auto center punches to make a divot for the pilot pin on the broach.

http://www.ferret.com.au/odin/images/206827/Rotabroach-12-000-series-Cutters-from-Imatech-206827.jpg