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paladin
11-16-2009, 04:15 PM
I have a "friend", actually a former co-worker, presently living in California......and is somewhat to one side of Attila. The sad thing about it is that he's married to a former "wetback" illegal alien, and he keeps coming up with this stuff....I haven't the slightest Idea how accurate this is...but I know first hand that the medical side of it hit's the nail squarely on the head. Added to that.....in the area where I formerly lived, the greenskeeper started a business when he lost his job.....he developed a reputation over a couple of years of getting folks to sign "contracts" to keep their yards mowed, bushes trimmed etc.....then would show up, do half the job, go somewhere else and return a week later and do the other half, when the entire yard need work again. If you complained about the service, he threatened to sue for the full job, figuring that folks wouldn't spend time in court......he eventually got a full blown subdivision contract, and started to pull the same crap...then he hired the illegals.....then I purchased the beach house and was elected the subdivision homeowners prez......he tried to pull it again...I had him fired and investigated for hiring illegals....so...take this with a grain of salt....or argue about it.....if someone wants to make derogatory remarks to try to get me to pull it......NOPE!



JOE LEGAL vs. JOSE ILLEGAL

You have two families: "Joe Legal" and "Jose Illegal".

Both families have two parents, two children, and live in California.

Joe Legal works in construction, has a Social Security Number and makes $25.00 per hour with taxes deducted.

Jose Illegal also works in construction, has NO Social Security Number, and gets paid $15.00 cash "under the table".

Ready for this?

Joe Legal:
$25.00 per hour x 40 hours = $1000.00 per week, or $52,000.00 per year. Take 30% away for state and federal tax; Joe Legal now has $31,231.00.

Jose Illegal: $15.00 per hour x 40 hours = $600.00 per week, or $31,200.00 per year. Jose Illegal pays no taxes. Jose Illegal now has $31,200.00.

Joe Legal pays medical and dental insurance with limited coverage for his family at $600.00 per month, or $7,200.00 per year. Joe Legal now has $24,031.00.

Jose Illegal has full medical and dental coverage through the state and local clinics at a cost of $0.00 per year. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00.

Joe Legal makes too much money and is not eligible for food stamps or welfare. Joe Legal pays $500.00 per month for food, or $6,000.00 per year. Joe Legal now has $18,031.00.

Jose Illegal has no documented income and is eligible for food stamps and welfare. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00.

Joe Legal pays rent of $1,200.00 per month, or $14,400.00 per year. Joe Legal now has $9,631.00.

Jose Illegal receives a $500.00 per month federal rent subsidy. Jose Illegal pays out that $500.00 per month, or $6,000.00 per year. Jose Illegal still has $ 31,200.00.

Joe Legal pays $200.00 per month, or $2,400.00 for auto and home insurance. Joe Legal now has $7,231.00.

Jose Illegal says, "We don't need no stinkin' insurance!" and still has $31,200.00.

Joe Legal has to make his $7,231.00 stretch to pay utilities, gasoline, etc.

Jose Illegal has to make his $31,200.00 stretch to pay utilities, gasoline, the difference between his rent subsidy and actual cost, and what he sends out of the country every month.

Joe Legal now works overtime on Saturdays or gets a part time job after work. Jose Illegal has nights and weekends off to enjoy with his family.

Joe Legal's and Jose Illegal's children both attend the same school. Joe Legal pays for his children's lunches while Jose Illegal's children get a government sponsored lunch. Jose Illegal's children have an after school English as a Second Language program. Joe Legal's children go home to an empty house while their parents are still at work.

Joe Legal and Jose Illegal both enjoy the same police and fire services, public schools, libraries and community activities but Joe paid for them and Jose did not pay a dime.

Phillip Allen
11-16-2009, 04:23 PM
I wonder how ell jay will handle the spin on this?

Phillip Allen
11-16-2009, 04:30 PM
now...substitute Jose Burglar for Jose Illegal...see if anyone will salute that flag?

Kaa
11-16-2009, 04:32 PM
That's mostly BS because if Jose is an illegal and has no SS, he is not getting any welfare or federal rent subsidy, etc.

The whole thing becomes much closer to reality if you replace Jose Illegal with, say, Bob Legal who's white, native born, has a SS number, etc. etc. but just happens to work in the gray economy on a cash-only basis.

Kaa

ljb5
11-16-2009, 04:35 PM
I wonder how ell jay will handle the spin on this?

Why are you so obsessed with me?

Phillip Allen
11-16-2009, 04:37 PM
Why are you so obsessed with me?

I think it's the other way around...

Keith Wilson
11-16-2009, 04:54 PM
Jose Illegal pays no taxes. Jose Illegal now has $31,200.00.Nope. Living in California, he pays 8.25% sales tax on everything he buys except food. He pays 63.9 cents/gallon tax on gasoline. He pays propery tax either directly if he owns property, or indirectly if he rents; that's not cheap in California. He doesn't pay any state or federal income tax, but Joe won't pay much of that with an income of $52K and two kids either. About the only real diffence is Social Security/Medicare tax, and guess what - Jose Illegal can't collect social security or medicare.
Jose Illegal has full medical and dental coverage through the state and local clinics at a cost of $0.00 per year. Where? How? "Full medical and dental?" I think this is bogus.
Jose Illegal receives a $500.00 per month federal rent subsidy. Eh? How does he do this? Of course he could have fake papers, but I think this is bogus too.
Jose Illegal has no documented income and is eligible for food stamps and welfare.Not in California, not without fraud. Illegal immigrants are not eligible. Children born in the US are citizens and may be eligible for food stamps. And you can't get welfare for more than a couple of years anymore.

Nah. Whoever wrote this has no idea what he's talking about.

ljb5
11-16-2009, 05:00 PM
I think it's the other way around...

I hadn't even read or posted on this thread when you asked about me.

Surely you don't need me to post on every single thread, do you?

If you're interested in the topic, post something interesting. If you're not, don't feel the need to speculate about what I might think of it.

Phillip Allen
11-16-2009, 05:01 PM
so, Keith, are you saying Joe legal does not also pay those taxes you llisted above or you just quibbling?

Keith Wilson
11-16-2009, 05:05 PM
are you saying Joe legal does not also pay those taxes you llisted above Sure he does. But the quote said that J.I. pays no taxes; this is false. The difference in the taxes they pay is not 30% of income to zero - I'd bet closer to 15% vs. 25 or 30%

And remember - contrary to the claims of the C&P, J.I. gets no welfare, no food stamps, no rent subsidy, and no health insurance.

Phillip Allen
11-16-2009, 05:07 PM
The issue was whether the claim that Jose Illegal 'pays no taxes'.

That claim is obviously false... and at that level of income, Jose illegal is paying very close to the same amount, in taxes, as Joe Legal... but not getting the same level of services.

seeing as how that particular tax issue equals out...I consider it absolute proof of quibbling...if you can't address the meat of the thread, why post except to blow smoke or to exibit a knee-jerk response?

Kaa
11-16-2009, 05:10 PM
...if you can't address the meat of the thread

There is no "meat of the thread" except for the rather obvious observation that someone who works for cash and has no visible income has a number of er... tax advantages :D over someone who's paid by check.

Kaa

paladin
11-16-2009, 05:11 PM
One of the more recent..."things" found in Calvert County.....a home fixit company hires illegals, mostly from El Salvador......then they have a job painting a house, they quote because they have too much business that it will take 10 working days to do the job......then the illegals live in one home while painting 2-3 others, and keep rotating homes. Same companies keep doing this, never get their hands slapped, because the companies are the biggest employers in the county.

ljb5
11-16-2009, 05:16 PM
Just out of curiosity, why doesn't Joe Legal do some work off the books? Apparently it's easy and profitable.

I suppose we're supposed to assume that he wouldn't do that because it's unethical.

That makes some sense, but it also illustrates that the complaint against Jose is not that he's an alien, but that he's an unethical worker.... which of course has nothing to do with a person's nationality.

Indeed, this entire thread could be re-written with no mention of ethnicity or nationality. If an illegal immigrant can be an illegal worker, than a legal citizen can also be an illegal worker. Why doesn't this happen?

Why does Joe pay for health insurance?

perldog007
11-16-2009, 05:17 PM
I think it's the other way around...
Back off D!##MONSTER!! Lj is obsessed with ME! find your own or we are going to have to settle it in the yard with shanks at close range:D:D:D

The story is completely bogus, $2400 for home and auto insurance in California? On what planet?

On a serious note, I have encountered folks who play the system and not all of them are from another country.

Phillip Allen
11-16-2009, 05:19 PM
Oh man, you are too funny!

I'll bet you don't see the irony here.

oh I know what you're getting at alright...so...Phillip's a knee-jerk and other's aren't? Perhaps any knee-jerk that can be associated with the "opposition' trumps all else? I can't work it out...

Phillip Allen
11-16-2009, 05:21 PM
some years ago...about the time of the 911 "alleged" Muslam attack, I worked with an 18 year old Mexican (I have no idea if he was legal or not) who told me that he claimed 18 dependents on his W-4...prolly means nothing...

Keith Wilson
11-16-2009, 05:22 PM
. . . if you can't address the meat of the thread . . . Phillip, what in the world are you talking about?

- The post claimed that JI is paying zero taxes, while JL is paying 30%. This is false; the ratio is probably closer to 15% vs 25-30%
- The post claimed that JI gets a $500 federal rent subsidy. This is false.
- The post claimed that JI gets food stamps sufficient to feed a family of four. This is false.
- The post claimed that JI gets welfare. This is false.
- The post claimed that JI gets free complete heath care coverage. I think this is false. But if anyone knows how you can do this, do everybody in California a HUGE favor and publish the information, please.

Sorry, friend, I can't get any more "meaty" than that. Five claims, five falsehoods.

Phillip Allen
11-16-2009, 05:25 PM
speaking to the first line...I have personally checked my check in years past...as I recall...27% of my earnings never made it to my pocket...close enough

ljb5
11-16-2009, 05:25 PM
Why doesn't Joe Legal simply tell his boss he was born in Tijuana and that he wants all the same stuff Jose gets?

bobbys
11-16-2009, 05:25 PM
I feel left out now.

How come no body has it in for me.

I can be a jerk!!!.

Granted an Amateur jerk compared to some but still.....

pefjr
11-16-2009, 05:26 PM
Paladin, you musta been bored and wanted to troll up some entertainment..:D

Phillip Allen
11-16-2009, 05:27 PM
Why doesn't Joe Legal simply tell his boss he was born in Tijuana and that he wants all the same stuff Jose gets?

because, unlike you, he is honest

Phillip Allen
11-16-2009, 05:28 PM
sorry...I shouldn't have said that...the topic is about legal vs illegal...is that answer understandable?

perldog007
11-16-2009, 05:33 PM
I just spoke to my little brother in Cali, he says that illegals are starting to go back to Mexico. Anbody else heard that?

perldog007
11-16-2009, 05:35 PM
I feel left out now.

How come no body has it in for me.

I can be a jerk!!!.

Granted an Amateur jerk compared to some but still.....

Just keep believing in yourself. Your special somebody is out there somewhere.

ljb5
11-16-2009, 05:35 PM
sorry...I shouldn't have said that...the topic is about legal vs illegal...is that answer understandable?

So it has nothing to do with immigration status, right?

If any of this stuff were true, there would be a heck of a lot of "legal" workers trying to masquerade as "illegals."

bobbys
11-16-2009, 05:36 PM
Just keep believing in yourself. Your special somebody is out there somewhere..

Sure after you hogged all the good jerks.....

perldog007
11-16-2009, 05:37 PM
some years ago...about the time of the 911 "alleged" Muslam attack, I worked with an 18 year old Mexican (I have no idea if he was legal or not) who told me that he claimed 18 dependents on his W-4...prolly means nothing...

I have known a bunch of folks who do that to reduce withholding, their thinking being that they will handle their money and settle with the fed at tax time. My ol' lady claims zero and sees it like an "after xmas club" shopping fund she gets back in February.....

oznabrag
11-16-2009, 05:45 PM
I feel left out now.

How come no body has it in for me.

I can be a jerk!!!.

Granted an Amateur jerk compared to some but still.....

Awww! That's too bad, bobbys!

If I call you a *#$%@&^^%**^&^$%(*@#^! a coupla times, will you feel better? I hate to see you down, man!

bobbys
11-16-2009, 05:48 PM
Awww! That's too bad, bobbys!

If I call you a *#$%@&^^%**^&^$%(*@#^! a coupla times, will you feel better? I hate to see you down, man!.

I knew i could count on you.

Thanks Man!!!

Glen Longino
11-16-2009, 05:54 PM
I just spoke to my little brother in Cali, he says that illegals are starting to go back to Mexico. Anbody else heard that?

Many illegals are reaching retirement age and returning to Mexico where they will live like Kings for the rest of their lives, while poor ole Joe Legal stays here and continues to live a life of whining and poverty.:rolleyes:

S/V Laura Ellen
11-16-2009, 05:56 PM
.. contrary to the claims of the C&P, J.I. gets no welfare, no food stamps, no rent subsidy, and no health insurance.


But if you insist on the truth, the story is even amusing any more.
Don't be such a spoil sport.:D

McMike
11-16-2009, 06:07 PM
There's nothing to spin. Jose Illegal is here because people will pay him... he's here because he can work. If anyone objects, the people they should be pissed at are the employers, and their paid-for politicians... they shouldn't be pissed at Jose, he's only doing what anyone in his position would do. People respond to incentives.

As for the claim that Jose Illegal gets a federal rent subsidy, full medical and dental care, welfare and food stamps.... I'd like to see that documented.


*Puts finger on nose* Bingo!

davidagage
11-16-2009, 06:09 PM
Come on!, Come on down to Plant City and work in the Strawberry Fields. We are paying $50 a day, sun up to sun down, 7 days a week!, and we will give ya an old trailer to live in while you're here. Hmmm, not one white boy or black signing up....You want strawberries cheap? whose gonna plant em and pick em.....:confused: I think that the reality of the situation is that the migrants and illegals are not taking the jobs but doing the ones that are, for lack of better terms..benieth us. We need to look hard at the illigels that are good decent workers doing the work that nobody else will, and the illegals that are crossing the borders to pillage.

pefjr
11-16-2009, 06:30 PM
Come on!, Come on down to Plant City and work in the Strawberry Fields. We are paying $50 a day, sun up to sun down, 7 days a week!, and we will give ya an old trailer to live in while you're here. Hmmm, not one white boy or black signing up....You want strawberries cheap? whose gonna plant em and pick em.....:confused: I think that the reality of the situation is that the migrants and illegals are not taking the jobs but doing the ones that are, for lack of better terms..benieth us. We need to look hard at the illigels that are good decent workers doing the work that nobody else will, and the illegals that are crossing the borders to pillage.
Good idea, hire a few of these jer,.....uh good workers, David. They are kinda without a job and bored, need sometin to do,and shoot guys, that's a $100 bill in ya pocket every 2 days, and free strawberrys, save it and you can buy yourself that wooden dream boat at the end of the season. :D

davidagage
11-16-2009, 06:57 PM
. They are kinda without a job and bored, need sometin to do,and shoot guys, that's a $100 bill in ya pocket every 2 days, and free strawberrys, save it and you can buy yourself that wooden dream boat at the end of the season. :D

The thing is... they are not with out a job. They are doing what nobody else will do. They are gainfuly employed, Working very, very hard and contributing to the local economy. It is amazing to see the population growth, the economic growth and the the socioligical difference in the area around now. I have recieved more help and gratuity from the "migrants" in the area than I have from any "local".