Kayak Design choice

[deltabrent]

Alright. I have a thread in building which was wrong.

I've done some thinking and am going to scrap the idea of building a double kayak. Single this time around.

Looking through all the designs available is overwhelming.

I want to build a strip planked kayak for a person 6'1" skinny, new paddler (I don't want a boat I'll outgrow right away though) for weekend camping/maybe a little longer. To Gulf Islands of Vancouver island. Suggestions:

Also this will be my first strip built boat. Easier would be good.

[Cuyahoga Chuck]

Sizing a kayak properly takes specific numbers. Like how much will you weigh when you are all dressed up to go paddling and how much would your gear and duffle weigh for tripping? And shoe size can be inportant in meduim and low volume hulls.
When you have settled on some numbers check in with these folks.
http://www.kayakforum.com/cgi-bin/Building/index.cgi

[Rob Hazard]

Before you commit to building yourself a kayak you need to get enough experience paddling to have an informed idea of what model of boat you want. Rent a few boats, buy a used boat, take a few classes or lessons, and get a feel for different designs.

The boat that's right for me would probably be all wrong for you.

You might look up an outfit called Body-Boat-Blade. I think they're on Orcas Island. They could show you some good boats and they have some amazingly good coaches there.

[meuritt]

Rob's advice is right on. There are all sorts of question that need answers, where do you want to paddle, flat water or rolling seas, do you want to go out for a few hours or a few days, or weeks. Do you want to learn advanced techniques of boat handling that would include rolling?

I am 6'2, 190, size 13 feet. Almost no factory kayak fits. Those that do tend to be expedition, high volume kayaks that bob around a bit like a cork with just my weight, so I have to add ballast because I only want to paddle about 10 miles at a time, but do it on San Francisco Bay. I have a boat that tracks straight, doesn't turn without rather advanced techniques.

With five years experience, which includes 20 knots wind, bay chop, 4' seas and going through the surf zone off Duxbury Reef, I am not sure any single kayak is going to do it for me, so I have three kayaks.

I will custom build a rather narrow kayak with a longer deck and cockpit so I can get in and sit comfortably with my sea boots, for my serious paddles, the two day boats I have are quite good for calm waters, taking pictures of the flora and fauna.

[Kudzu]

I have to agree, spend some time in one to learn what you want and need. (assuming you don't paddle now) There are a lot of cheap plastic ones for sale. You could pick up one and paddle it while and learn what you like and dislike.

Then draw out a set of goals/wants/needs to help guide you. Then be realistic about those.

Will you really camp out of the boat? If not why buy a big touring boat when a smaller boat would better suit you?

Are you fast paddler? If not then a shorter boat may be a better choice over a long one.

What are the typical water conditions?

Things like that will help you narrow down your choices but the problem is, around here anyway, I rarely ever see a wooden boat and the chances of me getting to paddle one I am considering building are slim to none. That is where the Boards are great.

And on a side note, don't buy into the the "Long Boat Myth" that longer it faster. It just isn't always true. I did a computer study on a boat I designed by changing the lengths only. What I found was you need to define fast.

The Long boat myth (http://www.kudzucraft.com/articles/longboatmyth.php)

I typically paddle in the 3-4.5 mph range. The 17' or longer version had higher resistance at those speeds than a 15' boat. At speeds above that (sprints for me) the longer boats had lower resistance and would be faster for the same amount of effort.

Not saying long boats are bad, just not always the best choice.

[JimD]

Here's a page on choosing a kayak: http://www.oneoceankayaks.com/kayakpick.htm

This from Laughing Loon would appeal to me personally -24" beam means lots of initial stablility but still not too wide for bracing and rolling if necessary. I wouldn't want to go any wider, and looks like the lines wouldn't be too difficult to strip plank: http://www.laughingloon.com/georgian.bay.html http://www.laughingloon.com/images/georgian.bay.images/gb.study.jpg

Steve Killing's Endeavor 17 is another: http://www.bearmountainboats.com/17-0EndeavourKayak.htm
http://www.bearmountainboats.com/images/17-0EndeavourKayak.gif

As for outgrowing them, these wider boats won't 'challenge and reward' the way a 21" beam will, depends on what you want.

[DGentry]

FWIW, strip built kayaks are pretty, but strip is the most time consuming and complex method of building. Many people take months or even years to complete one . . . .

How did your SOF kayak turn out? Are you familiar with www.yostwerks.com (http://www.yostwerks.com) ? A bit easier than building traditionally.

Enough about that! I second or third that you should try out some designs before committing to building a stripper. Hop on the ferry and head over to Orca boats, in Port Moody. I'm sure Rod would be happy to let you try out some of his designs, and he can help you choose a boat or kit. It's great to have the designer right there for any questions you might have during the build.
http://orcaboats.ca/

As for a specific boat design, you might want to look at the Great Auk, by Nick Schade http://www.clcboats.com/shop/kayak-kits/auks/
Apparently this boat is very simple to strip, and beginner friendly to use, as well. {At least that's what I've read - I have zero experience with them.} Nick's book "The Strip-Built Sea Kayak" has plans for this boat, too, and is a darn good primer for strip building, in any case.

Good luck!
Dave Gentry

[AstoriaDave]

Deltabrent,

You're getting lots of advice, much of it pointing you away from jumping into building a strip boat right off the bat. While I agree a stripper is a substantial project, if you are truly determined in that direction, consider some of the Redfish designs. They will make up a kit of parts and forms which makes the process easier than one from scratch. You might want to look at their "King" or "Return."

OTOH, if what you really want it a boat in the water in the spring, ready and waiting, a stitch and glue plywood boat will perhaps be more cost-effective, and more time-efficient. Consider one of the Pygmy designs, perhaps the Coho, for its simplicity of construction and demonstrated popularity over the long haul.

Any design which is the right displacement for your weight (and fits your feet underdecks) will do the job for a first boat; you can outfit the cockpit to fit your hips, thighs, etc and make the boat a functional part of your body. The only caveat is to avoid barges like the Pygmy Queen Charlotte or vessels of similar beam, which may have so much initial stability they may inhibit your evolving skills pretty soon ... if you in fact do evolve good skills.
Redfish: http://www.redfishkayak.com/
Pygmy: http://www.pygmyboats.com/

[deltabrent]

My SOF kayak is done. Finding a the nylon seemed to be hard and I've not skinned it yet. I'd like to do something beyond canvas. I'd make that a priority if I had the skin.

I'd like to try out a few designs yes! I'll look up Orca Island.

The kayaking I'd be doing would be in rolling seas maybe in the sprint and fall. Summer would usually be pretty calm. The Islands I want to get to are not all that far away from the many beach accesses in the area. I'd like to do a 2-3 day trip eventually.

I have size 10 feet. Am 6'1"s, would like to do some rolling sure, BUT mostly I'd just be wanting to cruise islands and sleep on beaches.

I'm going to build a strip boat as I've done other wood working projects (Built a guitar etc) and I have the wood. It's no good for real planking as the grain run out would be a problem.

Thanks for your help.!

[DGentry]

Finding a the nylon seemed to be hard and I've not skinned it yet. I'd like to do something beyond canvas. I'd make that a priority if I had the skin.

Skin fabric is very easy to come by in your neck of the woods. Email Baidarka guru George Dyson, just across the way in Bellingham, WA and he'll send you a list of the fabrics that he sells. He's very cheap (relatively speaking) and gets orders out fast. GDyson@gmail.com

Check out the latest Masik online journal for a good overview of skinning and coating options, starting around pg41: http://www.qajaqusa.org/QUSA/newsletter.html

Good luck!
Dave Gentry

[Rob Hazard]

Wait, wait!
Delta, you say you've got a skin-on-frame boat ready to skin? And already you're looking for your next build?
Get the skin on your SOF and spend a season paddling it! Really! You'll have much better idea of what you want to build next once you've spent some time playing with this boat.

[deltabrent]

Yeah I guess you're right. It just sits in a out of the way place now and I don't think about it.

I really want to get building something this winter. I've finally assembled my own shop. I have all this wood and a whole winter. I don't want to sit in front of the TV too much. A boat project would keep me busy.

Maybe I'll build my girl friend a SOF boat this winter and then we'll both go out in the summer. From there I'll get my next idea for a project together.

[Scot L T]

I agree, get your SOF done and get some time on the water. That's what boats are really for afterall...gettin' on the water with.

I'm not a kayak person (I get claustrophobic in them...can't stand it) but have built a few stripper canoes. IMO there are a lot better ways to build a boat. Don't get me wrong, they are beautiful, are excellent paddlers when well designed but do require a lot of work and take much time. Not to mention the toxic nature of the epoxy. Personally, I'll not build another.

But If that is what you like, I say give it a go.

An attractive alternative that a buddy and his wife made is a hybrid stitch and glue hull with strip decks. Here's a link to Chesapeake Light Craft and a photo that gives you an idea what the finished boat might look like. http://www.clcboats.com/shop/boats/kayak-kits/mill-creek-16-5-hybrid-tandem-recreational-kayak-kit.html
They didn't make the Mill Creek but I believe theirs are the Shearwater 17' and 16' (you know "His and Hers").

If I were to make another stripper and a kayak I think that would be the way to go.

BTW where are you on the Island?

[deltabrent]

I'm in Nanaimo.

The story is I have a enough wood to make a kayak. It's full of grain run out but was essentially free. So my options for doing anything with it are limited. I figured strip planking would suit the materials. Also I am building in my basement where the door and the exit out the door will only really accommodate a kayak or other narrow boat.

I really like what little kayaking I've done and the places i want to go will suit one. There are few docks or good places to beach a bigger boat.

I am just finally getting set up, have the material, all/most of the tools I need and the whole winter to build it. I guess after waiting/planning so long I really want to get started building something. I'll have to source out more stuff to build my girl friend an SOF boat. BUT I'd be happy to as we'd both be out going to the places I want.

I appreciate everyone's help, tips, suggestions and time. This forum a great resource.

[JimD]

... It's full of grain run out...

That can't be good. Can we assume you've tried giving some of it a good bend to test it out and it bneds uniformly and holds? If it starts snapping on you during glue up you might invent a few new words, as they say.

[Rob Hazard]

Delta,
Is there a kayak club near you? If so, do they run swimming-pool sessions in the winter? Ask around. If you want to learn to roll (and what kayaker doesn't?), this is a good way to start. And it'll give you something to chew on until spring rolls around.

[deltabrent]

It's not that bad of grain run out. It's just not ideal planking material. I thought about doing some pool lessons. I just lost my job so might have some more time to learn things like rolling a kayak.