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P.I. Stazzer-Newt
11-08-2009, 07:12 AM
Is there a native English speaker with a decent grasp of grammar in the house.


Neo-Brutalism is the predominate architect school in the city's redevelopment

Arrrrgh - my poor old Domine would be tearing his hair out - its all about the endings.

Dominate - verb
Dominator, Dominatrix, Dominion - nouns
Dominant - adjective
Dominantly - ugly but feasible attempt at an adverb? - "predominantly" works.
Dominoes - probably a different root.

Is this sort of stuff no longer taught - and if not why not? Can the ~ate form ever be an adjective?

Describe, and if possible explain, the faults in "architect school" .....

Hwyl
11-08-2009, 07:16 AM
Is this sort of stuff no longer taught - and if not why not? Cant the ~ate form ever be an adjective?

.....
I'm apostate.

Peerie Maa
11-08-2009, 07:18 AM
I love it. A guy ranting about grammar who forgets his punctation:eek::D:D

P.S you forgot the ~ural ending in there as well.

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
11-08-2009, 07:21 AM
I'm apostate.

http://991.com/newgallery/Frank-Zappa-Apostrophe--292629.jpg

Hwyl
11-08-2009, 07:29 AM
It is a pretty awful piece of sentence construction. There is is a school of thought that equates unintelligible with profound.

ishmael
11-08-2009, 07:51 AM
I confess, most of what Mrs. Prange taught me about sentence structure is out the window, flown the coop, AWOL, gone. I think I know a good sentence when I read it, and every once in awhile write one.

"Easy reading is hard writing." Hemingway

elf
11-08-2009, 08:03 AM
"dominant school of architecture"

Bruce Taylor
11-08-2009, 08:20 AM
http://991.com/newgallery/Frank-Zappa-Apostrophe--292629.jpg

It was sad when he died of apostate cancer.

downthecreek
11-08-2009, 08:40 AM
T Clarity, as I have mentioned before to P.I.S.N., is greatly enhanced by the correct use of, as one example, the Oxford comma.

Matter of interest, punctuate this sentence:

Woman without her man is nothing

Phillip Allen
11-08-2009, 09:02 AM
I made terrible grades in English...I couldn't be bothered.
even so, the last time I recieved any formal education was a sophamore level, advanced essay writing course at university. My work usually required 6 or 7 drafts and even ocallionally 8. All recieved top marks. The trick is, I know what it's supposed to look like and I speak pretty good English (when pressed) but puntuation is not good and spelling worse and there are some other things. With so many drafts, all re-written by hand, I was always able to winnow out the chaff. In-class work was tougher but I managed to get along. I aced the course and I am proud of that.

I will never get back the lost education that P.I. speaks of in his opening post and I regret that...

Mrleft8
11-08-2009, 09:09 AM
Where's Donn?

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
11-08-2009, 09:22 AM
....

P.S you forgot the ~ural ending in there as well.

Wot, like in "Binaural"?

downthecreek
11-08-2009, 09:24 AM
Intent from context is missing, as is the period.

More to it than that.......As far as intent is concerned - punctuate it as you wish........

Bruce Taylor
11-08-2009, 09:46 AM
Where's Donn?

I hope he's reviewing the proper use of auxiliary verbs in the construction of type III conditional sentences. ;)

brad9798
11-08-2009, 09:50 AM
Headlines have a 'different' set of rules/standards ...

assuming that was a headline!

downthecreek
11-08-2009, 10:10 AM
assuming that was a headline!

If you are referring to my little sentence - no. Not a headline. Just a simple sentence that can be punctuated more than one way........

If not, sorry I spoke :)

pefjr
11-08-2009, 10:23 AM
Describe, and if possible explain, the faults in "architect school" .....
Me?, you talking to me? ..........you talking to me?

are you.....talking to me? not me, I got my edumacation in the South.:D

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
11-08-2009, 10:30 AM
Me?, you talking to me? ..........you talking to me?

are you.....talking to me? not me, I got my edumacation in the South.:D


Is there a native English speaker...

Nope.

ishmael
11-08-2009, 10:45 AM
To turn a populist vision of feminism on its head. You've probably seen the silly aphorism that says, "A woman without a man is like a fish without a bicycle." Rather clever.

"A woman without a man has a fish, and no bicycle."

Ooh, I kinda like that if I do say so myself. Not quite as clever, but not bad for off the cuff.

Pull up the roots, turn matters on their heads, don't accept what anyone tells you is reality.

downthecreek
11-08-2009, 10:50 AM
Pull up the roots, turn matters on their heads, don't accept what anyone tells you is reality.

Don't need to....

Woman without her man is nothing

Punctuated by a man:-

Woman, without her man, is nothing.

Punctuated by a woman:-

Woman: without her, man is nothing.

:)

Peerie Maa
11-08-2009, 10:50 AM
Matter of interest, punctuate this sentence:

Woman without her man is nothing

Well, if he won't do it, you let her in.

downthecreek
11-08-2009, 10:57 AM
Nope.

Hang on a minute :)

How about:

The school of architecture that predominates in the reconstruction of the city is the "neo-brutalist".

Any good? (I don't like it, but perhaps it is a little less horrible?)

Peerie Maa
11-08-2009, 11:02 AM
Hang on a minute :)

How about:

The school of architecture that predominates in the reconstruction of the city is the "neo-brutalist".

Any good? (I don't like it, but perhaps it is a little less horrible?)

Either drop the final "the" or add "school" or "Genre" to the end.

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
11-08-2009, 11:03 AM
Hang on a minute :)

How about:

The school of architecture that predominates in the reconstruction of the city is the "neo-brutalist"

Any good? (I don't like it, but perhaps it is a little less horrible?)

I have no structural objections to that - and I admire the "little less horrible".

Are sentences, like that in my first example, the real price for the disappearance of the classics, or is there a better explanation? - Answers on the back of an email to....

Peerie Maa
11-08-2009, 11:05 AM
The loss of the written word as entertainment?

downthecreek
11-08-2009, 11:11 AM
Either drop the final "the" or add "school" or "Genre" to the end.

There we disagree. I think the adjective at the end quite clearly relates to the noun at the beginning (school) so additions at the end would be superfluous.

And the final "the" should be there, I think, because it does refer to a specific school - "the neo-brutalist " - as opposed to some other school of architecture (although maybe "style" would be a better word) so the words "neo-brutalist" are a little more than a straightforward adjective.

Peerie Maa
11-08-2009, 11:20 AM
There we disagree. I think the adjective at the end quite clearly relates to the noun at the beginning (school) so additions at the end would be superfluous.

And the final "the" should be there, I think, because it does refer to a specific school - "the neo-brutalist " - as opposed to some other school of architecture (although maybe "style" would be a better word) so the words "neo-brutalist" are a little more than a straightforward adjective.

My problem with the scantion is that when you get to "the neo-brutalist", I think "neo-brutalist" what? Dominatrix? Perhaps I just read too slowly and forget where we started the sentence.:o If I agree with your first proposal, I must insist on loosing "the" because "the" should precede a noun.

TerryLL
11-08-2009, 11:30 AM
If I was writing this sentence I'd say something like:

"Them buildings are way butt-ugly."

Yup, if it was up to me, that's what I'd be saying.

And yes, the flagrant abuse of the present subjunctive were intentional.

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
11-08-2009, 11:32 AM
Neo-Brutalism is the predominate architect school in the city's redevelopment...

<accent ON Mode="Jimmy Saville">Now then people, hows about this?</accent>

Neo-Brutalism is the predominant architectural school in the city's redevelopment...

Changing but six letters - and as the man said "a little less ugly".

oznabrag
11-08-2009, 11:32 AM
The architecture that predominates in the reconstruction of the city is of the "neo-brutalist" school.

downthecreek
11-08-2009, 11:45 AM
If I agree with your first proposal, I must insist on loosing "the" because "the" should precede a noun.

You shall not banish my "the"! ;)

We are not talking about some architecture that just happens to be "neo-brutalist", we are talking about a school of architecture, as the first words of the sentence make clear. Take out the middle bit and you get "the school (which is the subject of the sentence) is the "neo-brutalist" (school - understood) "

In this context "neo-brutalist" is not just an adjective, but also part of a compound noun. As such, it requires the definite article. If you banish the "the" you change its grammatical status.

Peerie Maa
11-08-2009, 11:49 AM
<accent ON Mode="Jimmy Saville">Now then people, hows about this?</accent>

Neo-Brutalism is the predominant architectural school in the city's redevelopment...

Changing but six letters - and as the man said "a little less ugly".

she's Got it, by George she's got it.

Peerie Maa
11-08-2009, 11:52 AM
You shall not banish my "the"! ;)

We are not talking about some architecture that just happens to be "neo-brutalist", we are talking about a school of architecture, as the first words of the sentence make clear. Take out the middle bit and you get "the school (which is the subject of the sentence) is the "neo-brutalist" (school - understood) "

In this context "neo-brutalist" is not just an adjective, but also part of a compound noun. As such, it requires the definite article. If you banish the "the" you change its grammatical status.

However you have dropped the noun part of the compound noun, leaving just the adjective, it scans inelegantly in my eyes.

downthecreek
11-08-2009, 11:56 AM
<accent ON Mode="Jimmy Saville">Now then people, hows about this?</accent>

Neo-Brutalism is the predominant architectural school in the city's redevelopment...

Changing but six letters - and as the man said "a little less ugly".

There's an issue of usage there. I think "school of architecture" is different from "architectural school".

the former suggests to me a movement. The latter a specific institution.

Of course, we can also change the sentence around to make the city the main subject:

The city has been re-developed, predominantly in the "neo-brutalist" style

or the re-development:

In the re-development of the city, the "neo-brutalist" style predominates.

On the whole, I think the "architect school/architecture school/school of architecture" rigmarole is unhelpful - unless, of course, the writer was addressing students of architecture and focusing on the "school" itself:

The "neo-brutalist" school of architecture is exemplified in the re-development of (this particular) city.

Fun, ain't it? ;)

downthecreek
11-08-2009, 12:00 PM
However you have dropped the noun part of the compound noun, leaving just the adjective, it scans inelegantly in my eyes.

It seems to me to thump down at the end in a rather satisfying way - both in terms of rhythm and diction - leaving the brutality as the predominant impression. Truly poetic, really ;)

Ah well. Each tae their ane taste, as the auld wife said when she kissed the coo. :)

Captain Blight
11-08-2009, 12:02 PM
This whole thread is Neo-Brutalist.

Peerie Maa
11-08-2009, 12:03 PM
It seems to me to thump down at the end in a rather satisfying way - both in terms of rhythm and diction - leaving the brutality as the predominant impression. Truly poetic, really ;)

Ah well. Each tae their ane taste, as the auld wife said when she kissed the coo. :)

I see where you are coming from, but that works just as well without the "the".

Now which of us wants the last word?:p

bobbys
11-08-2009, 12:08 PM
I cannot help at all in this thread.
I mixes up my Apostles, Voibs, and adjectivers all the times.

downthecreek
11-08-2009, 12:08 PM
I see where you are coming from, but that works just as well without the "the".

Now which of us wants the last word?:p

My dear sir! Please be my guest...... :)

Peerie Maa
11-08-2009, 12:10 PM
My dear sir! Please be my guest...... :)

No Sir, after you Sir, I insist.:D

Bruce Taylor
11-08-2009, 12:30 PM
My problem with the scantion is that when you get to "the neo-brutalist"

English grammar permits noun phrase ellipsis: "You've have had some good ideas, but I've had more." It can make for ugly phrasing, though: "You have big ears, but I have small." Conventional usage emends that to: "You have big ears, but I have small ones;" however, style requests a complete rewrite: "Your ears are big, but mine are small."

"Scantion" won't do at all. ;)

downthecreek
11-08-2009, 12:41 PM
No Sir, after you Sir, I insist.:D

But my dear sir - I cannot possibly.....

No, no, no. This reminds me (pleasantly) of the scene on "The Marriage of Figaro" in which Susanna and Marcellina joust about who is to go first through the door.... Will you be Susanna, or shall I? ;)

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
11-08-2009, 12:43 PM
I'd hoped to fire a discussion on the mending of endings, but instead we have an unsightly argument about the end.


Sad.