HID Headlight Rant

[Garret]

Hi All -

I need to vent a bit (the title does say "rant"!). I'm all for improved technology, but....

There is no doubt that headlights have improved since sealed beam days. Quartz halogen lights are much better. High Intensity Discharge (Xenon - the bluish ones that zap you as the oncoming car comes over the hill crest) headlights are a different story.

Note that I'm not talking about the headlight assembly here. Nowadays they all have replaceable bulbs - so the assembly only needs to be replaced when damaged - to the tune of $200-$600 each.

A new bulb for a quartz halogen headlight is $10-$30 at the parts store, usually no more than double that at the dealer. Replacing it takes 10-60 minutes - depending on how buried the headlight assembly is. They are very bright & the reflectors can be shaped to give a very accurate beam.

HID lights are a whole 'nother kettle of fish. Prices listed here are dealer prices for a VW/Audi (rounded due to aging memory;-). Other manufacturers are similar, but some are much higher (Lexus, Cadillac & Subaru for example). Better deals (for the mechanically inclined) can be found on the web.

Bulb: $175
Ballast: $700 (provides the high voltage needed for these lights - each bulb has one)
Aiming Motor $325 *
Labor to replace all 3: $200-400 depending on the car.

* Because they are so bright, HID lights are required (in the US) to have an aiming motor that - through a level sensor & the car's computer - automatically adjusts the up & down aim of the light.

That means that one headlight could cost over $1500 to replace!!!!

And - over time (125,000 miles+) the projector assembly darkens from the heat to where the light is no longer anywhere near as bright as a quartz halogen, much less a new HID light.

So - how is this an improvement - other than to dealer bottom line? Inquiring minds would like to know.

Garret

[LeeG]

it costs $1500?

[Garret]

it costs $1500?

If you have to replace everything, yes - or thereabouts.

Just the bulb is $175 + an hour's labor, but from what I understand, the ballast usually goes at about the same time - so roughly a grand for those 2. The aiming motors seem to last a little longer.

[Captain Blight]

Benefits are brighter lights (DUH) , truer color values within the beam, and lower power draw.

Downsides are numerous.

[Garret]

Benefits are brighter lights

But over time, they aren't brighter. Great for the 'burbs, but lousy on back country roads.

I guess my issue is cost/benefit. QH are enough better than sealed beams to justify 3x the cost. HID's (IMHO) aren't enough better than QH to justify 10x the cost - or more.

[Bluecometk]

The largest reason I know is fuel economy.
They take fewer amperes to light them, they use a more reflective frequency and they last longer.

I'm not to sure about your statement about an aiming motor being the law. Subaru’s don’t have an auto aiming motor or any computer logic connection.

To change a subaru HID bulb, 2 tenths (12 minutes).


Since we started using them in Subarus I have seen 2 that failed.


Just my opinions

Bluecometk

[brad9798]

The largest reason I know is fuel economy.


What the heck does this mean? :confused:

When do lights translate into fuel economy??

[brad9798]

Like I always say- Xenon is GREAT when I am behind the wheel ... a PITA$$ when I approach!

:D

[Bluecometk]

Less amperage draw on the Alt equals less horsepower used equals better fuel economy.

Les amperes needed means smaller wires means less weight.

Just my opinions

Bluecometk

[brad9798]

Good thoughts ... but that does not translate into any 'noticeable' gains in economy!

I like it, though!

[Bluecometk]

Not really thoughts but facts.

Everything on a car is crucial to fuel economy in this day and age.



Bluecometk

[brad9798]

Everything on a car is crucial to fuel economy in this day and age.

nuh-huh!

[Bluecometk]

Yeh Huh!

Bluecometk

[brad9798]

Tell me how ... please!

[LeeG]

150mpg carburetor, send $19.95 NOW

[Hughman]

would it be unfair of me to mount a high powered tracking laser on the roof of my car, set to pulse through the drivers windshield whenever it senses an oncoming HID equipped car?

[brad9798]

JUST as I thought ... bluecometK!

:rolleyes:

[Garret]

The largest reason I know is fuel economy.
They take fewer amperes to light them, they use a more reflective frequency and they last longer.

I'm not to sure about your statement about an aiming motor being the law. Subaru’s don’t have an auto aiming motor or any computer logic connection.

To change a subaru HID bulb, 2 tenths (12 minutes).


Since we started using them in Subarus I have seen 2 that failed.


Just my opinions

Bluecometk


We've all got 'em :D

3.5 amps vs. 4.6. So about 2.2 amps (26.4 watts). That's 0.035 HP. I'll bet the extra weight of the glass projector & ballast makes up for much of that savings..........

Seems some Foresters have leveling motors, but most other rubasu's don't. I stand corrected. Price for the bulb & ballast is still stupid....

[Stan D]

I ride a 1973 Honda motorcycle. The stock 35 watt headlight is not near enough. Back in the day, a 55 watt halogen was the popular upgrade, but, the alternator didn't put out enough to run it all the time. So if I only run it after dark and throw it on a charger once a week, it'll do okay.

An HID is the perfect answer. A single bulb kit(all inclusive) is available for less than $100.00. And it draws about half the current that the stock bulb draws. These astronomical prices you all quote are more than likely dealer prices. The reason for leveling motors is because they don't have a low/high beam. My daughter has a Nissan Rogue that has a manual adjuster in addition to the high/low switch. It is my guess that most @$$holes that have annoying headlights have them adjusted up too much. When My daughter is behind me in traffic, her light never annoy me.

[Bob (oh, THAT Bob)]

I think the manufacturer can get around the automatic light aiming hardware if the car is equipped with self-leveling suspension.

HIDs, in addition to being expensive, are more fragile than ideal, and have a slow lightoff so can't be used for high-beams. I predict that HIDs, incandescent, halogen, et al, will be replaced by LED lights. They are getting progressively more powerful, last I looked you could get a seven watt flashlight, and that is a kickin' bright flashlight, equal to many more watts than any of the above, at typically five times the efficiency of halogen-incandescent. It's just a matter of time until they are bright enough for headlights. Also, LEDs have tremendous longevity, typically 100,000 hours, and extreme shock resistance, you can drop one from a 747 onto concrete and if the lens doesn't break, the light source will be fine. The problem is heat, not a lot of it as that would mean it is inefficient, the problem is dissipating the heat from such a pinpoint source.

[Garret]

These astronomical prices you all quote are more than likely dealer prices.

Yup - I said that they are dealer prices in my OP. I also said that better prices "for the mechanically inclined" are available on the web. I bought a new ballast for a friend's Audi online & paid $175. Had to solder the wires to the original connector.

Bulbs can be found online for $50-75. I still say that they don't produce enough better/increased light to justify the cost. I also know that many people will return to the dealer for repairs. Even if they go to an independent shop, repairs will cost significantly more than QH.

[Tylerdurden]

I notice the night vision HUD hasn't gained much ground. Maybe there is a compromise somewhere in between. The real issue I see is speeds while travelling at night seem to have picked up and lots of people overdrive their headlights. Its great to be able to see farther but if you increase the speed of closure it doesn't mean squat.

[Dan McCosh]

FWIW, headlight leveling for HID and other high-intensity systems is a European standard, not a US standard.

[Garret]

FWIW, headlight leveling for HID and other high-intensity systems is a European standard, not a US standard.

I guess that'd explain why European cars have 'em & most Japanese cars don't...;)

Thanks for the info!

[Woxbox]

Back to the original point, I agree 100% that cars are still getting more complex and heavier when, if efficiency is really the goal, they should be getting simpler and lighter.

And I'm not sure about the value of increasingly brighter headlights, either. When it's busy at night -- and it almost always is in the NE US, your eyes never adjust to the dark, which is the real key to being able to see what's coming up.

[Mrleft8]

I don't care what they cost. They should be illegal. I've been nearly driven off the road several times by those damned things to the point where when I see them coming, I slow way down and look at the side of the road. I hate 'em.

[oznabrag]

Me too, Lefty. Me too.

[Donn]

I predict that HIDs, incandescent, halogen, et al, will be replaced by LED lights. They are getting progressively more powerful, last I looked you could get a seven watt flashlight, and that is a kickin' bright flashlight, equal to many more watts than any of the above, at typically five times the efficiency of halogen-incandescent. It's just a matter of time until they are bright enough for headlights. Also, LEDs have tremendous longevity, typically 100,000 hours, and extreme shock resistance, you can drop one from a 747 onto concrete and if the lens doesn't break, the light source will be fine. The problem is heat, not a lot of it as that would mean it is inefficient, the problem is dissipating the heat from such a pinpoint source.

It must have been a while since you looked at flashlights. 7 watts isn't much for an LED flashlight these days, although the raw power of the emitter is only part of the story. Advances in batteries, reflectors and other optics are coming along behind the emitters, and adding greatly to the uses of the LED.

Here's an example:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v54/donnwest/IMGP3037.jpg

That little pocket light has a 5.5 watt emitter inside an 18mm reflector. It's a Luminus Phlatlight SST-50. It's doing a little over 100 lumens per watt (quite efficient) off a single 18650 Li-Ion cell. Since it's a monolithic emitter, it produces a lovely beam, much improved over recent multi-die emitters which have more total output.

This light, for example:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v54/donnwest/002-72.jpg

It has a single 6-die 15 watt emitter which produces just over 1000 lumens. It isn't as efficient as the SST-50, but because it sits in the bottom of a 3" smooth parabolic reflector, it makes a beam which reaches out much further. It's not a pocket light, because it requires at least 20 volts of energy, so it carries far more battery (4x Li-Ion D cells).

Of course, you also have the option of using an array of several LEDs in the same space:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v54/donnwest/008-6.jpg

This one has 9x Cree XR-E R2 emitters, and puts out well over 2,000 lumens. Because the individual emitters and their reflectors are so accurately arranged, you can't tell the beam isn't from a single light source.

"100,000 hours" of life for a LED is a manufacturer exaggeration. Like most light emitting devices, efficacy and output steadily diminishes over the life of the instrument. Typically, a LED will lose as much as 50% of its output during the first half of its life. Heat is the primary culprit. These hot LED flashlights, for example will drop as much as 20% in lumen output in the first few seconds of operation.

Advances in optics for LEDs are as impressive as the advances in the emitters themselves. Stick a monolithic LED at the proper distance behind an aspheric lens, and you won't believe what comes out.

As good as LEDs are, I think it will still be quite a while before they can replace incandescent light sources. I have 100 and 150 watt flashlights which use lamps made for medical instruments. These are the 'firestarter' hotwire lights which run the lamp at voltages and amperages very much in excess of ratings, in order to generate more light. We knowingly make them inefficient, sacrificing bulb life and battery run time in return for more out the front lumens. My current favorite is the 100 watt Osram 64623 lamp. It's a $4 bulb rated for 12 volts, 8.8A and 2800 lumens. At rated levels, it will cook at 120°F and last 4000 hours. I run it at 15 volts, 10A and get 5100 lumens. It burns at 176° and has a 60 hour life. The host light is a 6C Maglite with a regulated soft-start multi-level switch carrying 5x 26650 A123 LiFePO4 cells. I get about 20 minutes of run at full power, but I can recharge the cells in less time, so I'm happy.

[Tylerdurden]

I don't care what they cost. They should be illegal. I've been nearly driven off the road several times by those damned things to the point where when I see them coming, I slow way down and look at the side of the road. I hate 'em.

I find its most annoying on the highways when they are behind you.
In a car its no big deal but in a truck with large mirrors its damn painful.
Since installing the floods on the back though I can get them to back off pretty quick.;)

[John Smith]

Less amperage draw on the Alt equals less horsepower used equals better fuel economy.

Les amperes needed means smaller wires means less weight.

Just my opinions

Bluecometk

This stuff also means higher insurance premiums.

[oznabrag]

...
Since installing the floods on the back though I can get them to back off pretty quick.;)

:cool: Heh, heh, heh...

[John Smith]

Having driven on a variety of roads at night, as I'm sure we all have, I would like a car with some bright high beam options at some times. Some roads are so well lit that headlights don't mean much.

Al my cars have headlights with a single high beam option that isn't as much help sometimes as I like. Out in areas where there are no street lights, it would be nice to have a higher beam option that really put some light ahead.

Of course, it might need some kind of automatic shut off to not blind others. I'd not use it when there are others.

[Tylerdurden]

Having driven on a variety of roads at night, as I'm sure we all have, I would like a car with some bright high beam options at some times. Some roads are so well lit that headlights don't mean much.

Al my cars have headlights with a single high beam option that isn't as much help sometimes as I like. Out in areas where there are no street lights, it would be nice to have a higher beam option that really put some light ahead.

Of course, it might need some kind of automatic shut off to not blind others. I'd not use it when there are others.

A sunroof and being equipped with a grenade launcher with parachute flares could over come that without the need to dim for oncoming drivers.;)

[Phillip Allen]

Benefits are brighter lights (DUH) , truer color values within the beam, and lower power draw.

Downsides are numerous.

I think you're missing the biggest benefit of all...ego massaging

[oznabrag]

... I would like a car with some bright high beam options at some times...

No probber, ol' son, just get thee down to ye olde 4X4 accessory store, and pick up a set of quartz-halogen lights. They are typically mounted on the roll-bar, but a pair on your bumper should do nicely. The kit will have everything you need, including an in-line fuse, switch, wire, the works. They should also be available in a range of intensities.

[Garret]

I find its most annoying on the highways when they are behind you.
In a car its no big deal but in a truck with large mirrors its damn painful.
Since installing the floods on the back though I can get them to back off pretty quick.;)

I had some Hella lights mounted on the back of a pickup (used the truck for plowing - one side fog light, the other driving & you can really see to back up). One day I flipped it on at a car behind me who didn't dim his headlights. As you say, it normally works wonders. Problem was - in this instance - the only effect was to make the driver behind me turn on a rotating blue light....:eek:

I won in court though! Pain in the posterior to go, but worth it.

[John Smith]

No probber, ol' son, just get thee down to ye olde 4X4 accessory store, and pick up a set of quartz-halogen lights. They are typically mounted on the roll-bar, but a pair on your bumper should do nicely. The kit will have everything you need, including an in-line fuse, switch, wire, the works. They should also be available in a range of intensities.
Thanks. It's very tempting.

[Dan McCosh]

HID lights are miniature arc lights, which gives them several advantages. Lacking a filament, they last a long time--about 100,000 miles or so. This offsets the cost for the bulb. They do require a sophisticated power supply, which adds to the cost and weight. The main advantage is that the high light output allows the headlight system to saturate the area on the road--illuminating the edges of the beam pattern as well as the center. The candlepower of the headlights are regulated for all types, which means that they don't actually project for a much longer distance. The US regulations tend to favor the oncoming driver. The Euro regs which assume a higher highway speed. These regs have been modified somewhat in the US to allow a sharp cutoff line--the HID lights project with high intensity below this line, that sharply cuts off above it. A car that hits a bump, or a rise in the road, can send the beam upwards, and rhe oncoming driver sees a bright flash.
The main advantage to LED lights is the ability to control the beam pattern by making a pattern with many smaller projector beams, rather than having to focus a single light source through a lens pattern. This means you could "customize" the beam, avoid oncoming drivers, illuminate the road edge when needed, etc. There are two production cars, as far as I know, that offer LEDs as headlamps--one being a Cadillac CTS model, the other, I think, is an Audi. Neighter has a control system that optimizes the lights. They are quite expensive, making HIDs look cheap at the moment.

[Tylerdurden]

I had some Hella lights mounted on the back of a pickup (used the truck for plowing - one side fog light, the other driving & you can really see to back up). One day I flipped it on at a car behind me who didn't dim his headlights. As you say, it normally works wonders. Problem was - in this instance - the only effect was to make the driver behind me turn on a rotating blue light....:eek:

I won in court though! Pain in the posterior to go, but worth it.

One must be careful.;) I just flash them so I have the excuse of accidentally hitting the switch.

[Garret]

One must be careful.;) I just flash them so I have the excuse of accidentally hitting the switch.

That's all I did. Seems there's a law in Vermont that says backup lights must be controlled by the transmission.

The judge said that people not dimming lights was a real "pet peeve" of his & while he said that what I did might not be technically legal, he'd wished for the same ability many times. He then went on to tell the cop he'd wasted court time & that he ought to learn common courtesy.

I'm very glad this was a cop from a ways away from where I normally drive....

[Tylerdurden]

That's all I did. Seems there's a law in Vermont that says backup lights must be controlled by the transmission.

The judge said that people not dimming lights was a real "pet peeve" of his & while he said that what I did might not be technically legal, he'd wished for the same ability many times. He then went on to tell the cop he'd wasted court time & that he ought to learn common courtesy.

I'm very glad this was a cop from a ways away from where I normally drive....

I get it, I have conventional back up lights but these are work lights.
As its a commercial service vehicle I guess I have some latitude with them. Don't want to try it though as here the judges tell you in traffic court the officer is always right so don't bother arguing.
I about fell out of my seat when that was said. It seems the scam is a good one as you have to post a bond to appeal and if they get one a year its amazing. I never did the legwork to see the results of appeals. I guess I should.

[Garret]

I get it, I have conventional back up lights but these are work lights.
As its a commercial service vehicle I guess I have some latitude with them. Don't want to try it though as here the judges tell you in traffic court the officer is always right so don't bother arguing.
I about fell out of my seat when that was said. It seems the scam is a good one as you have to post a bond to appeal and if they get one a year its amazing. I never did the legwork to see the results of appeals. I guess I should.

These were separate work lights as well, but since they aim backwards, they are considered "back up lights".

2-3 years ago, I fought a C&N ticket (entirely unjustified - the cop shoulda gotten one!) from one of Fryeburg's finest. When the DA heard I'd driven all the way from Vermont to fight it, he listened (I also cleaned myself up - even shaved!). Threw out the case & apologized. Also said he'd speak to the Fryeburg chief. Mighta helped that I had the DA talk to a Bridgeton cop who witnessed the guy yelling & cursing at me.

So - "the cop is always right" is not a hard & fast rule, but I bet it's applied most of the time.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

I drive about 33,000 miles a year. Almost exactly half of that is in the dark. I bought a new Ford in June this year which has HID headlights and I must say I am very glad of them, so far, after 12,500 miles.

My ego does not feel particularly massaged, thank you Philip (;)) but I do like to see where I am going.

The downside in driving is that white road signs, which, in Britain, have reflective paint, shine back at you very brightly indeed.

I am quite alarmed at the thought of paying a great deal of money after a mere 100,000 miles, but maybe the prices will have come down a bit by then.

In Britain reversing lights must be linked to the transmission.

[Garret]

I am quite alarmed at the thought of paying a great deal of money after a mere 100,000 miles, but maybe the prices will have come down a bit by then.

One important point to note: 30 years ago, 100,000 miles on a car was not "mere". Quality & longevity have improved dramatically.

Yes, we all have stories of the million mile P1800, etc. - but in general, cars last much longer now than they once did.

[P.I. Stazzer-Newt]

....
In Britain reversing lights must be linked to the transmission.

True, but the backwards pointing floods used for ploughing still work in forwards - even on the road.

Which is a mixed blessing - there is a big difference between a tractor and a tractor with an eight furrow reversible thing badged "Kverneland" - the big difference is in the width of the remaining gap.

[Garret]

What's the difference between a well hung stallion and a car with HID lights?

You don't have to buy the trailer hitch "scrotum" for the horse...:D

[oznabrag]

...

Yes, we all have stories of the million mile P1800, etc. - but in general, cars last much longer now than they once did.

This may well be true, but it seems to me that the modern car is intended to be disposable.

At the acme of US auto manufacturing, say 1968, you could buy a pick-up truck that was almost infinitely rebuildable. New bearings and bushings...It's almost as if the engine was regarded as a 'wear part'.

I drive a '93 Chevy 3/4 ton and, compared to the '58 Ford I had in Kansas, the body is a flimsy POS. Chassis, too. Further, it is my adamant, un-shakable opinion that complication is the blood enemy of reliability.

[Robbie 2]

I have a mate who has solved this problem of people following with lights on full. He has an extra mirror hung from the rear vision mirror that he can just flick up to flash the light back and it usually works instantly.

[Garret]

This may well be true, but it seems to me that the modern car is intended to be disposable.

At the acme of US auto manufacturing, say 1968, you could buy a pick-up truck that was almost infinitely rebuildable. New bearings and bushings...It's almost as if the engine was regarded as a 'wear part'.

I drive a '93 Chevy 3/4 ton and, compared to the '58 Ford I had in Kansas, the body is a flimsy POS. Chassis, too. Further, it is my adamant, un-shakable opinion that complication is the blood enemy of reliability.

A valid point. Go back to a 44 Willys MB & you get even more rebuildability (if there is such a word).

However, they both had to be largely rebuilt well before 100,000 miles.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Good points, Garret.

I seem to remember that in Sixties Britain it was quite normal for a "high mileage" car, with say 70,000 miles on the clock, to get a new engine.

The car I bought in June had its first service, at 12,500 miles, yesterday; it needed an oil and filter change. Cars used to have a 3,000 mile service interval.

[skuthorp]

would it be unfair of me to mount a high powered tracking laser on the roof of my car, set to pulse through the drivers windshield whenever it senses an oncoming HID equipped car?

I used to have an aircraft signal lamp circa WW2. It had an aiming sight and was a great discourager of the 'high beam road hog'. Just one blip was generally enough.

[oznabrag]

A valid point. Go back to a 44 Willys MB & you get even more rebuildability (if there is such a word).

However, they both had to be largely rebuilt well before 100,000 miles.

True, once again, but it would be very interesting to compare the environmental cost of making a new Hummer with that of re-building a 44 Willys.

In fact, start with a new Willys and a new Hummer. Drive them equal numbers of miles and record the environmental costs of both their initial production and their operation. Rebuild the jeep as needed, to keep it in motion long enough to wear out the Hummer.

Then, replace the Hummer and rebuild the jeep, if it needs it, and see where the ledger stands. I think you can imagine how far in the red the Hummer would finish.

This is all part and parcel of how the automobile industry has 'screwed the pooch'.

[Garret]

True, once again, but it would be very interesting to compare the environmental cost of making a new Hummer with that of re-building a 44 Willys.

In fact, start with a new Willys and a new Hummer. Drive them equal numbers of miles and record the environmental costs of both their initial production and their operation. Rebuild the jeep as needed, to keep it in motion long enough to wear out the Hummer.

Then, replace the Hummer and rebuild the jeep, if it needs it, and see where the ledger stands. I think you can imagine how far in the red the Hummer would finish.

This is all part and parcel of how the automobile industry has 'screwed the pooch'.

Bingo! Nailed it.

I was just talking with a friend about this yesterday. Picture yourself on a battlefield. Your vehicle breaks down & you need to get it running again. Which would you rather have to fix - the Willys or the Hummer?

[oznabrag]

Well, I don't know, Garret!

Do I have a fully-equipped computer-analyzer, two hundred pounds of specialized tools and extensive automotive training, or a screwdriver, a crescent wrench, a pair of pliers and a burning desire to survive? :D

[Ross M]

... Drive them equal numbers of miles and record the environmental costs of both their initial production and their operation. ...

There might be a surprise in that comparo. It is my understanding that 1960's cars emitted more hydrocarbons parked in the garage than modern ones do on the road, due to evaporation from open fuel systems.

Factor in corrosion prevention (heavy metal platings), paints, steel making & foundry practices, component longevity, etc. and it may be more of a horse race than expected.

Ross

[Garret]

Well, I don't know, Garret!

Do I have a fully-equipped computer-analyzer, two hundred pounds of specialized tools and extensive automotive training, or a screwdriver, a crescent wrench, a pair of pliers and a burning desire to survive? :D

Yeah - I wanna be running a computerized engine analyzer when someone's shooting at me....

Heck - even when I'm out in the woods getting firewood!

Many years ago, I had a partner run a log skidder too low on oil. Of course it was about a mile up in the woods on a steep hill when he spun a rod bearing. I hand sanded the crank journal to .010 under (several rolls of emery paper & crocus cloth), replaced that bearing & ran the skidder for another year before selling it.

Imagine doing that to a Hummer!

[oznabrag]

There might be a surprise in that comparo. ...

Ross

Maybe, but I think you'd have to drive the jeep a long, long way before you consumed the natural resources necessary to simply produce the Hummer.

[oznabrag]

...

Many years ago, I had a partner run a log skidder too low on oil. Of course it was about a mile up in the woods on a steep hill when he spun a rod bearing. I hand sanded the crank journal to .010 under (several rolls of emery paper & crocus cloth), replaced that bearing & ran the skidder for another year before selling it.

Imagine doing that to a Hummer!

I know an old boy who spun a rod bearing in a '43 Chevy pickup, on his way home from a big concert in Chicago.

His high-school buddies bailed on him, but he stayed with the truck. He borrowed a few wrenches from the garage up the road, replaced the bearing with a strip of his leather belt, and drove the 250 miles home.

Imagine doing that in a Hummer! :D

[Garret]

I know an old boy who spun a rod bearing in a '43 Chevy pickup, on his way home from a big concert in Chicago.

His high-school buddies bailed on him, but he stayed with the truck. He borrowed a few wrenches from the garage up the road, replaced the bearing with a strip of his leather belt, and drove the 250 miles home.

Imagine doing that in a Hummer! :D

My dad did exactly the same thing in a Model A. The gal he had with him didn't bail though...

However - we should be technically correct (before we get corrected ;-). Neither a Model A nor a 43 Chevy had replaceable rod bearings - so they couldn't "spin" one. Babbitt material was cast directly on to the rod - necessitating replacement of the entire connecting rod after the belt wore out.

Not trying to bust yours on this - just a pre-emptive strike against someone else correcting us! ;) Not that someone would ever do something like that in the Bilge....

[oznabrag]

Thanks for that, Garret.:)

I wasn't under the truck with the guy, but he told me he 'fixed' the rod bearing with a piece of his belt, and I believe it's true.

[Garret]

Thanks for that, Garret.:)

I wasn't under the truck with the guy, but he told me he 'fixed' the rod bearing with a piece of his belt, and I believe it's true.

I'm sure he did! I wasn't saying a Babbitted rod won't go bad (I had one go in a 38 Chevy truck - same motor as your friend's) - just that since the bearing material is bonded to the rod instead of having a bearing insert, the bearing can't technically "spin". Getting way too anal here, Garret :o

My dad said his belt repair lasted about 300 miles before the leather disintegrated. Guess he used up most of the belt before he replaced the rod.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

the time seems ripe for my late father's Ford 8 story:

In 1937 he was crossing a patch of rather undistingushed semi-desert in what was then Palestine (the bit concerned is now Jordan) with a couple of colleagues in a Ford 8 when something (I forget what) failed in the transmission or suspension. They walked into the nearest village and located the blacksmith. Father asked if he was used to working on cars; "No", was the answer.

Father's eyes roved up the wall of the workshop to where a set of Ford gaskets were hanging on a peg; "What's that, then?"

"You said cars! You didn't say Fords! I can fix Fords!"

And so he did!