Mandatory Kayaker Safety Education

[Bob Triggs]

I would like to see a nationwide program for educating kayakers in boating safety, navigation rules of the road, open water crossings etc. I see some very stupid behavior amongst kayakers on the waters of Puget Sound and adjacent regional waters of the Pacific Northwest. Really, why not have a mandatory requirement for this kind of education- just like all other boaters have to get certified.

[Paul Pless]

Solo kayakers rank right up their with jetskiers for being the worst offenders of navigation rules. Sure they have right of way over powered craft in some situations; but that doesn't mean its legal for them to block a navigable channel!

[mmd]

Mandatory safety training? For boats?

How nanny-state, liberal, socialist, revenue-grabbing, freedom-killing of you!

(I'm in full agreement...)

[AstoriaDave]

From the tone of the contributions so far, I doubt anybody is interested in information from a longtime paddler, but I'll dive in anyway.

1. In Oregon (and Washington, also, I believe) folks who operate engine powered vessels are required to have a current boater ed card, nowadays. I have one because I own and operate a wooden boat I built.

2. Operators of canoes, kayaks, row boats, and similar craft are not. [Not getting into sailing craft.]

3. Sure enough, some kayakers are stupid about navigation and rules of the road. Their behavior constitutes a hazard to themsleves and other vessels attempting to avoid running them down.

4. A significant part of the online forums relating to paddling (mostly sea kayaking) I frequent is devoted to safety, including avoiding conflicts with powered vessels. Sane kayakers understand that they are hard to see and at great risk if hit. They work at minimizing their exposure.

5. Stones cast here will help no one. If you meet a paddler who is obviously clueless, one good thing to do is to stop and engage that person in a dialog slanted in the direction of educating the clueless one. Some will learn; others will not. Darwin awards will go to some of the clueless.

[P.I. Stazzer-Newt]

We run a sort of Darwinian winnowing process - not actually mandatory but kinda hard to avoid.

[meuritt]

I see no reason to limit it to kayakers, I've seen plenty of dumb things from "real" boats.

This idiotic and wrong notion that HPV's (Human Powered Vehicle or Vessel) have any special privilege is signing people up for the Darwin Award.

Paul, please cite where in the rules we kayakers, and I am proudly one, have right of way over powered craft?

The writers at SeaKayaker magazine can't find any, and, one kayaker/Professional Mariner who wrote an article for SK about this exact topic holds that a kayak or a row boat is a powered vessel because oars/paddles provide mechanical propulsion. We have maneuverability that sail may not, in direction and draft.

Under the overtaking vessel rule the faster boat must avoid us HPV's , unless there is the restricted maneuverability issue, but that is a specific situation and applies to us because we are slower, not because we are granted some other special priviledge.

OK, this should be a fun discussion

Mike
San Rafael, CA

[Tom Robb]

They may cause annoyance, but has any one ever been run down or swamped by one? I had a close call with a tuna-tower-terror once. It was memorable.

It'd do the world a favor if we could sucessfully legislate stupidity out of existance. Lotsa luck with that.

Could some, or much, of what you see be by kayak renters?

[LeeG]

I'd like to see a double rainbow.

It's unfortunate Bob that some people are ignorant of the consequences of their actions. I could see this as a great sales opportunity for the manufacturers of Long Range Acoustic Devices for ferry operators or other large vessels to communicate with greater detail the problems said kayakers are presenting to traffic.

"Hey paddle boy, you may not be aware of it but this vessel cannot maneuver in this channel so please wait until we've passed"

[George Roberts]

A mandatory class does not make one an experienced paddler any more than driver's ed makes one an experienced driver.

And experience is what is necessary.

[Stan D]

And knowing the rules of the road(water) isn't necessary? Like knowing who has the right of way in any given situation? Like knowing what side to pass someone on?

Yea, you're right. Who needs that stuff.

[TimH]

Around we use BCU certification

http://www.bcu.org.uk/

[Iceboy]

Great idea! Let's get the government involved in EVERY aspect of our lives. You can't legislate common sense. How much is this going to cost? Who will administer it? Seems like another excuse to levy fees and fines with no positive outcome.

[JimD]

It could really hurt the kayak rental business. How could the boat rental outfits survive if they could only rent to paddlers who had certificates?

[Chris Coose]

Most paddlers I see are in groups and appear to be safe.
Single paddlers are most often experienced and safe.

I haven't looked at the stats for this year but most deaths were by canoers, drinking, on fresh water, without life jackets on.

[Bob (oh, THAT Bob)]

Paul, please cite where in the rules we kayakers, and I am proudly one, have right of way over powered craft?


It will take me a bit to find official rules, but basically the more maneuverable must give way to the less maneuverable. So, in order of precedence:

Unpowered vessels, either adrift or under human power
Vessels engaged in commercial fishing (I think that's in the right order)
Vessels under sail
Powered vessels
Sea planes

OK here is the official version:

Vessels not under command
Vessels restricted in their ability to maneuver (I think vessels under tow, and also human powered craft fit here, not certain.)
Vessels constrained by draft
Fishing vessels engaged in fishing, with gear deployed
Sailing vessels
Power driven vessels

The goof I see most often from paddlers is going out at night with no lights, either white or a red/green.

[Bob Triggs]

A mandatory class does not make one an experienced paddler any more than driver's ed makes one an experienced driver.

And experience is what is necessary.

And yet the fact is that mandatory driver education, boating safety and hunter safety education programs have reduced accidents and mortality everywhere that they have been implemented. Education provides the best foundation for a better quality "experience".

[Bob Triggs]

It could really hurt the kayak rental business. How could the boat rental outfits survive if they could only rent to paddlers who had certificates?

Most livery operations are already exempt

[Stan D]

Before we get to training for kayaking what about mandatory insurance and training for cyclists and people riding horses. In fact why not make it mandatory for everyone to have third party insurance so that if some idiot steps out in front of a car causing an accident their insurance has to pay compensation to the car driver Also lets make skate boarders pay road tax after all they use the pavements and lets make them have insurance

Well first, let me point out that, generally speaking, people are stoopid. Not anyone here, of course. People who are involved in a forum such as this one are here to learn something. Stoopid people could care less about knowledge. That's what makes them stoopid.

To the topic at hand. Maybe not so much for kayakers, but all boaters should be required to have some training before being allowed out in the waterways. A kayaker who doesn't know any better than to go out at night without lighting gets what he deserves, but what about the guy in the powerboat that runs the kayaker over because the kayaker can't be seen?

And not to hijack the thread, but don't you think that this issue might be the real problem regarding jetskis? Or any fast powerboat for that matter, but jetskis being cheaper are more prevalent. Anyone who has enough cash or credit(not too much credit lately) can go and buy a boat or jetski that can do 60 or 70mph, that has no brakes, and be in waterways with no lane markings(remember we are talking about a lack of training so he doesn't recognize bouys. He's looking for a double yellow line to stay to the right of) and be a hazard.

The comparison of cyclists or horses is a bad one. Horses tend to stay in pastures where they are little trouble to traffic or pedestrians. The few that one sees in the city are ridden mostly by cops, who, you guessed it, have had training. Cyclists are held to the same laws that autos are. And if you've ever ridden a bike in city traffic, you'll know how naked you feel surrounded by 3 and 4 thousand pound cars. You learn real quick.

[meuritt]

Vessels restricted in their ability to maneuver (I think vessels under tow,
and also human powered craft fit here, not certain.)

The rules you cite do not say anything about human powered craft, they are not acknowledged.

Please explain how a canoe, kayak or row boat powered with appropriate sticks is limited in maneuverability. We may be limited in speed, but our draft is measured in inches, not feet, and my canoe, kayak or Whitehall can turn a tighter circle than most other boats, pretty much in place. By my understanding of the word, I am more maneuverable than most other boats. But I am usually slower. When I broke an oarlock and was drifting until I got the sail rig up, I would be vessel not under command, I believe, but w/o flying the proper flag identifying me as such, how would anyone know? (assuming non pro mariners are aware of what signal flags mean)

I've kept up with and passed sailboats on two different occasions and a third time with a day sailer in channel with an underpowered outboard, so I am not always slower.

In all three instances, I, the overtaking vessel, am obliged to stay out of their way.

Rules for small boat light specifically mention oars:
Sailing Vessels and Vessels Under Oars Sailing vessels less than 20 meters may exhibit the navigation lights shown in Figures 3 or 4.
http://www.nyss.com/federal.html#3G

Lighting of kayaks seems common sense, but even in daylight hours we are darned hard to see. Tiny lights 6" off the water are just not going to be seen, a light bright enough for meaningful visibility will likely blind the paddler, and may not do much for the overtaking vessel's vision either.

Consider the incident of Dinius Bismark, properly lit big boat plowed into by a speeding idiot.

I choose first to try and avoid going out after dark where I am likely to encounter traffic. Night is a no win situation for me, the small boat paddler/oarsman. I am in violation of the rule, I do not have boat lights, but I do carry a flash light and strobe.

good discussion.

Mike
San Rafael