PDA

View Full Version : Pope welcomes back Anglicans



Nicholas Scheuer
10-21-2009, 08:24 AM
Unfortunately, the move rides on the backs of Homophobes and Sexists.

A Papal Minister, according to my morning paper, is working to welcome back into the flock Anglicans who are disenchanted with female and gay ministers.

Apparently they will maintain their Anglican identity.

Great Pope we got, eh?

Moby Nick

Milo Christensen
10-21-2009, 08:32 AM
The Episcopal Church Welcomes You.

I, Rowboat
10-21-2009, 08:40 AM
I take it as a very revealing sign that the Catholic Church is fighting to get control of the close-minded and the homophobic in that diminishing heap of trash called organized religion.

Milo Christensen
10-21-2009, 08:41 AM
I take it as a very revealing sign that the Catholic Church is fighting to get control of the close-minded and the homophobic in that diminishing heap of trash called organized religion.

The Episcopal Church Welcomes You.

I, Rowboat
10-21-2009, 09:15 AM
The Episcopal Church Welcomes You.
Really? Gosh, how generous of them. Do you think maybe I'd have a shot at bringing it down from the inside?

brad9798
10-21-2009, 09:19 AM
Gosh, when one church opens up to others ... no one seems to like it.

I guess we are so trained to a$$holes that when some entity does something seemingly good, on the surface, that we get mad about that too!

Isolation? BAD

Seperation? BAD

Acceptance? BAD

Welcoming members of another church into your own? BAD

So much for the Golden Rule, eh? :rolleyes: :(

brad9798
10-21-2009, 09:21 AM
Religion, in and of itself, is not a heap of trash, rowboat.

I am sorry that you are so insecure and proud.

Really, I am.

(now, go ahead and give the 'you had a bad experience' speach ... or you 'knew someone who did.' Or some other copout-type excuse)

:p :D

I, Rowboat
10-21-2009, 10:01 AM
I am sorry that you are so insecure and proud.


Insecure and proud? How does that work



(now, go ahead and give the 'you had a bad experience' speach ... or you 'knew someone who did.'

Actually, I am quite happy to be second generation un-churched



Gosh, when one church opens up to others ... no one seems to like it.

I guess we are so trained to a$$holes that when some entity does something seemingly good, on the surface, that we get mad about that too!

Isolation? BAD

Seperation? BAD

Acceptance? BAD

Welcoming members of another church into your own? BAD

So much for the Golden Rule, eh?

Now are you talking about the Anglican church here, or the Catholic church? Hey, I think it's great that the Anglican church is modernizing, as evidenced but accepting women and homosexuals into the ranks of their clergy. If we're talking Catholic church, though, it should be quite embarassing to them that they're expressly courting homophobes. It's like an admission by the Catholic Church that it's hopelessly antiquated, is incapable of appealing to the intelligent, educated, or sophisticated audience, and must draw from a diminishing pool of human ignorance to swell the ranks.

pefjr
10-21-2009, 10:08 AM
A Papal Minister, according to my morning paper, is working to welcome back into the flock Anglicans

Apparently they will maintain their Anglican identity.

Moby NickCan they bring their god with them?

Nicholas Scheuer
10-21-2009, 10:26 AM
Got nothing against Anglicans, or Episcopals, if they prefer that.

Got nothing against married, gay, or female Ministers, neither.

As a Roman Catholic, I'm concerned that the Pope seems hide-bound to maintain the Church as a fortress against a more liberal view of the Clergy and sexual variations.

Moby Nick

Thorne
10-21-2009, 10:30 AM
I'd always thought that Anglicans/Episcopalians were Protestants, but in actuality they are reformed Catholics -- an interesting distinction!

Don't think they'll get too many 'lost sheep' back into the fold, but ya never know...

ahp
10-21-2009, 10:40 AM
I read the article in the NYTs this am. Interesting but I am not about ready to jump ship. The problem in our parish is personalities, especially the recently, involutarily, departed rector, his partisans who may be sharpening their knives, and a bishop who may be getting squishy in the brain. We are waiting for the next shoe to drop.

Does the Roman Catholic Church listen to the folks out in the pews?

pefjr
10-21-2009, 11:38 AM
Does the Roman Catholic Church listen to the folks out in the pews? Money talks. First, the pope would like to see the color of yo money, :D

Andrew Craig-Bennett
10-21-2009, 12:54 PM
Pope welcomes back Anglicans again. ;)

Last time was when we agreed to have women priests; this time the kerfuffle is over women bishops.

The timing does not look co-incidental.

I'm still waiting to learn why it is that you can be a married priest in the Church of Rome if you are an ex-Anglican, but not otherwise.

Personally, I am proud to belong to a Church that includes Archbishop Tutu and Archbishop Sentamu, both of whom are much too decent to mention their non-membership of the Hitler Youth, so I thought I'd do it for them.

Nicholas Scheuer
10-21-2009, 01:53 PM
There are also some married Roman Catholic Priests who were not Anglican.

Special circumctances apparently.

Moby Nick

Andrew Craig-Bennett
10-21-2009, 03:50 PM
I stand corrected.

peb
10-21-2009, 04:37 PM
Pope welcomes back Anglicans again. ;)

Last time was when we agreed to have women priests; this time the kerfuffle is over women bishops.

The timing does not look co-incidental.

Of course it is not incidental. But that is due to your problems, not ours. The catholic church is receiving quite a bit of interest from Anglicans. It seems the pastoral thing to do to respond in a consistent manner.

Andrew Craig-Bennett
10-21-2009, 04:51 PM
Oh, absolutely.

And we will be glad to have most of them back again in a year or two, as before.

I am sure that this chap was not in the Hitler Youth, because I knew him at Cambridge, where we were in the same college.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6b/Rowan_Williams_-001.jpg/200px-Rowan_Williams_-001.jpg

Edited to add - but I have aged a great deal better - I only have to deal with Somali pirates, not Vatican ones! ;)

PeterSibley
10-21-2009, 05:01 PM
In all fairness Andrew ,the Hitler Youth was the German version of the Boy Scouts .A lot nastier in aim ,but the participants weren't to know .

Milo Christensen
10-21-2009, 05:08 PM
Interesting that the Vatican's change in policy came at the request of an Australian Anglican Bishop.

purri
10-21-2009, 06:09 PM
Ah yes, the church of St Jensen. (and family)

peb
10-21-2009, 06:10 PM
In all fairness Andrew ,the Hitler Youth was the German version of the Boy Scouts .A lot nastier in aim ,but the participants weren't to know .

Well, it had one big difference with the boy scouts at least, it was mandatory.

George Jung
10-21-2009, 06:23 PM
Pretty catty bunch here.....

Why the undies - bunching? Is there some new news about the Hitler Youth

that's been in the news, or is this boot-peeing? I don't make it to all the

threads..... so whatdidImiss? (Just trying to keep up...)

I, Rowboat
10-21-2009, 09:25 PM
I don't make it to all the

threads..... so whatdidImiss? (Just trying to keep up...)

Oh, not much. T-urd and JCSOH confessed their undying love for each other...Milo admitted that he gets turned on by houseplants and has a three-bottles-a-day NyQuil problem...Yeadon was elected mayor of Kent, Washington. Just the usual.

Milo Christensen
10-21-2009, 09:51 PM
. . .Milo admitted that he gets turned on by houseplants . . .

Tell the rest of the story, I have a prescription for the stuff I grow for personal use.

I, Rowboat
10-21-2009, 09:56 PM
Tell the rest of the story, I have a prescription for the stuff I grow for personal use.

You grow your own botanical sexual playthings? Please, we don't want to hear any more.

<thumbs in ears> la la la la la I'm not listening la la la la

Milo Christensen
10-21-2009, 10:01 PM
You should study the Araceae (http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&rlz=1T4HPIA_enUS314US314&um=1&sa=1&q=araceae&aq=f&oq=&aqi=&start=0)a bit.

I, Rowboat
10-21-2009, 10:05 PM
You should study the Araceae (http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&rlz=1T4HPIA_enUS314US314&um=1&sa=1&q=araceae&aq=f&oq=&aqi=&start=0)a bit.
Oh, my. :(

I know that plants benefit from being talked to. Just out of morbid curiosity, does dirty talk yield similar benefits?

C. Ross
10-21-2009, 10:23 PM
Pope welcomes back Anglicans again. ;)

Are Thomas Cranmer, Thomas Cromwell and Cardinal Wolsey welcome too?

Andrew Craig-Bennett
10-22-2009, 03:28 AM
I have just been teasing our Roman friends, because the Roman church seems to be saying "Yippee - we're catching Anglicans!" whilst the Anglican church, true to our tradition, is saying, "Worship God wherever you find a service that suits you. If you don't feel comfortable with women bishops, go to a Church that does not have them."

Personally I've been delighted all the women priests who have officiated at services that I have attended or whom I have met outside the church and I have every confidence that some of them will make first class Bishops.

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
10-22-2009, 03:34 AM
Are Thomas Cranmer, Thomas Cromwell and Cardinal Wolsey welcome too?

As I recall, Canmer was given a particularly warm welcome back into the arms of the Catholic Church.

downthecreek
10-22-2009, 03:47 AM
the Anglican church, true to our tradition, is saying, "Worship God wherever you find a service that suits you. If you don't feel comfortable with women bishops, go to a Church that does not have them."


Makes me think of my wise Quaker friend. The way she puts it - if you come to a meal with me, it will be done differently from the way you do it when I come to a meal with you, or with any other one of my friends. What matters is not the way the table is set or the food cooked, but that we are having a meal together. :)

I think there is great wisdom in the Anglican way.

downthecreek
10-22-2009, 03:50 AM
Are Thomas Cranmer, Thomas Cromwell and Cardinal Wolsey welcome too?

Not sure Wolsey belongs in that company.

And, whilst on that subject - read Hilary Mantel's Wolf Hall! A wonderful book. Perhaps not quite so interesting for non Brits, but a fascinating and beautifully written novel all the same. One of the best things I have read for a long time.

Andrew Craig-Bennett
10-22-2009, 06:37 AM
Thank you for the recommendation.

I was hoping to proffer an excellent biography of Cranmer that I read a while back but I cannot lay hands on it...

C. Ross
10-22-2009, 06:44 AM
Not sure Wolsey belongs in that company.

And, whilst on that subject - read Hilary Mantel's Wolf Hall! A wonderful book. Perhaps not quite so interesting for non Brits, but a fascinating and beautifully written novel all the same. One of the best things I have read for a long time.

Possibly, though Wolsey died as Archbishop of York, perhaps with one foot on the Anglican dock and the other in the untethered Catholic boat. A familiar position for him.

Thanks for the recommendation of Wolf Hall.

downthecreek
10-22-2009, 07:18 AM
Possibly, though Wolsey died as Archbishop of York, perhaps with one foot on the Anglican dock and the other in the untethered Catholic boat. A familiar position for him.

Thanks for the recommendation of Wolf Hall.

I don't really think the Anglican church was established at the time Wolsey died in 1530. He was a Cardinal and a Roman Catholic (much given to burning heretics) Act of Succession was in 1534, I believe.

C. Ross
10-22-2009, 08:15 AM
I stand corrected. From memory I had thought that Wolsey lived longer after his fall from grace.

downthecreek
10-22-2009, 08:34 AM
I stand corrected. From memory I had thought that Wolsey lived longer after his fall from grace.

Wolf Hall deals with the first stirrings of the Reformation. It's fiction, of course, but it does imagine very convincingly the strange confusions and uncertainties of that time. It has the rich texture of real life - not least in its treatment of individuals like Wolsey, More, Cromwell, Cranmer etc. Not villains or heroes, but human beings with a dose of each in their makeup and a lot in between. Mind you, Thomas more doesn't come out of it very well.....Ambition, power, money, dynasty to the fore (with a bit of lust, but not so much as might be imagined) and concern for the immortal soul trailing behind. 'Twas ever thus!

If you get hold of it I hope you enjoy it as much as I did. :)

skuthorp
10-22-2009, 09:45 AM
A good old fashioned demarcation dispute eh? I really don't care, but it's all about power and money at the political levels of both businesses. A hostile takeover being attempted maybe, or just a share by-out for voting rights.

Andrew Craig-Bennett
10-22-2009, 10:54 AM
More was an enthusiastic heretic-burner; I seem to recall that he was accused, perhaps by Foxe, of racking a heretic personally, turning the screws himself, in the privacy and (for More!) comfort of his own house, but the Romans deny this...

downthecreek
10-22-2009, 11:14 AM
More was an enthusiastic heretic-burner; I seem to recall that he was accused, perhaps by Foxe, of racking a heretic personally, turning the screws himself, in the privacy and (for More!) comfort of his own house, but the Romans deny this...

And enjoying it...... Mantel has that in her book.

I was telling a colleague (and friend) about the book. She is one of those people that would give Roman Catholicism a good name - a cradle Catholic from Liverpool, an erstwhile nun and a thoroughly decent and graceful human being. She is one of the most liberal minded people (let alone Catholics) I know, but even she was visibly shocked to learn about the Mantel view of Saint Thomas. Being a person of great good sense, she got over it. :)