Daysailer for Puget Sound?

[RV-6 Flyer]

Well, everyone has to have a first post - this is mine.

I live in the Seattle area and am mulling over getting back into boating. Most of my experience has been in small power craft, with some sail experience in years past. For many years my family actually owned a nice little 18' lapstrake daysailer sloop built in 1936 by local builder Anchor Jensen, and I did a fair amount of sailing in that when I was young - but we let the boat get away to a new owner before I got turned on to wooden boats again.

What I am interested in is a wooden daysailer that could live a good portion of the year on a trailer, and be fairly easy to launch and load back on the trailer. I would probably have no more than 1-2 passengers at a time, and usually be solo. My sailing skills are rusty and were never that fabulous to start with, so something simple as far as rigging and handling would be good.

My thought would be to look for a used boat that may need some attention. I've built a Whisp (way back in 1990), a stitch & tape kayak, and - more recently - an airplane (made of something called aluminum, and a 9.5 year project...), so I have pretty decent shop experience and collection of tools, and don't have any worries as far as getting in and fixing things. I've also been a WB reader off and on since 1990.

So, my question: are there designs local to the Puget Sound area that would fit this need, and if so what would people recommend? And what sources for searching and finding such a vessel can people recommend? It would be nice to find something with some local history and tradition, if possible, while of course not breaking the bank. :rolleyes:

Thanks in advance for your suggestions.

[James McMullen]

Have you been to the CWB yet? There's a LOT of options to discuss when it comes to local Puget Sound boats--and they're the folks who would know where to start. Tim Yeadon is a forumite I would contact for more details.

[Bob Triggs]

Look up Seattle area Boat Designer and Builder, and teacher for the Center For Wooden Boats Eric Hvalsoe, and look for his 'Hvalsoe 16". It is one example amongst several of his great Puget Sound small craft.

(You can do a search on this site as he is a member here too and plenty of pictures and references are filed here).

[johnw]

What sort of construction do you have in mind?

[JimD]

...What I am interested in is a wooden daysailer that could live a good portion of the year on a trailer, and be fairly easy to launch and load back on the trailer. I would probably have no more than 1-2 passengers at a time, and usually be solo...

Usually that means a plywood boat with a centerboard. Usually that means home built, and if its second hand it means relying on the skills or lack thereof of an amateur builder and replacing rotten plywood. Might be easier to build from scratch. How about a Devlin Nancy's China?

http://devlinboat.com/images/nancyschinadc1.jpg

http://devlinboat.com/images/nancyschinadc2.jpg

[RV-6 Flyer]

Thanks for the suggestions, everyone. I have not checked out the CWB on Lake Union in some years, but that would surely be a place to start. I know Port Townsend also has a lot of activity of this type, and I am not too far from there (I live in Kitsap County, on the other side of the Sound from Seattle) and get up there from time to time on business.

As far as hull construction, the fact that it would spend a lot of time on a trailer suggests that planked construction would not be ideal, and hence cold molded or plywood & glue might be best. Although do lapstrake planked boats have the same drying out/plank gap issues as carvel? Maybe not, though it seems like they should.

I'll look further at the designs suggested. It would be cool to find something already sailing with some history behind it (how many unexpectedly expensive restoration projects have been launched with this words?....) but new construction has a lot going for it too.

Now that the airplane is living in a hangar at Bremerton, and the old 911 is in good shape and doesn't really justify a bunch more money being spent on it, it would be good to have something new in the shop to work on. :)

John

[Paul Girouard]

You might look at this thread if you already haven't.

http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=103886&page=2

Seems this boat might fit your needs. See post #1 for info.

[Eric Hvalsoe]

Look up Seattle area Boat Designer and Builder, and teacher for the Center For Wooden Boats Eric Hvalsoe, and look for his 'Hvalsoe 16". It is one example amongst several of his great Puget Sound small craft.

(You can do a search on this site as he is a member here too and plenty of pictures and references are filed here).

FYI There is a nearly completed Hvalsoe 13 (http://www.hvalsoe-boats.com/) in the shop looking for a new home, less than new commission price. Plans for 13 or 16 also available.

[Yeadon]

The Hvalsoe's are nice boats. No question. A can't miss every time.

One other idea ... what about a SF Pelican? Not a bad boat to trailer, you can pull it up on a beach, and I don't think it would break the bank to buy one or maintain it. There's a very active fleet in the area, too. I would not judge them on looks alone, they sail very well.

http://community-2.webtv.net/PelicanSailboat/SFPELICANBOATS/scrapbookFiles/mailedD9.jpg

Pelican dimensions:

Length overall: 12'-2.5"

Beam: 6'-1.75"

Draft: 4' (board down)

Sail area: 105 sq. ft.

Weight: 390 lbs.

[johnw]

There's a Snipe hull sitting at the Center for Wooden Boats looking for a home. You could get it cheap, but you'd have to make a rig for it. Cedar planked, somewhat heavy, glassed on the outside. It doesn't leak.

Thing is, what sort of boat do you have in mind? The Geary 18 is a local type that sails very well, but it's a daysailer/racer. Is that what you want, or are you more inclined to a beach cruiser?

[Henning 4148]

Have a Zugvogel. Either as a Schwertzugvogel (centerboard) or as a Kielzugvogel (open keel boat). Approx. 19 ft long. Designed for ply construction. The Kielzugvogel has a sail area / displacement ratio of more than 26 and that is including crew ... A really fast and fun but (because of the keel) still very safe boat. If you adapt the original design to current class standard with built in buoyancy and self draining cockpit - there is very little to worry about, it looks after itself, the original design with flotation bags can be a bit messier if you sail very hard and get water in the boat.

You can find the general technical information for the class on

http://www.kieler.org/kieler/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=307&Itemid=88

albeit it is in German ... The original plans for ply construction are also still available as far as I know. You might even start the class in the US ...

[johnw]

Nice boat, Henning, but I don't think it qualifies as a local, Puget Sound design.

[RV-6 Flyer]

Hey, with a name like Wiegenstein there is plenty of German in me - so maybe that is closer to a "local design" than you might think! :D

Back in 1989-1990 I looked at Joel White's Haven 12 1/2 and got the book on building same. But it looked to be a long, expensive and complex project, so I went with the Whisp instead. The Haven still holds a lot of appeal - but it is still expensive and would still be a major project.

The suggestions above that focus on one-designs are probably not quite what I am looking for. At my age, speed is less of an issue than when I was younger, and comfort is a lot more important. So the beach cruiser or similar kind of daysailer would be more what I am looking for than a Star, Geary 18, Thunderbird, etc., I think. And I think I probably would like something that is just physically larger and heavier than the Hvalsoe 13/16 or similar craft, beautiful and practical as they are.

John

[Yeadon]

Caledonia Yawl ... or Ness Boat ... something with a centerboard that can handle a bit of weather, and can be pulled up on to a trailer with little difficulty.

For a local design with a bit more heft than the Hvalsoe, but every bit as lovely ... try Don Kurylko's Alaska (http://www.dhkurylko-yachtdesign.com/build.htm). I think these boats are generally strip built, but I've seen them lapstrake, too. At some point Eric says he's going to design something in this realm, which will be great because there is a real need for more NW designed open boats around 18 feet that are long distance beach cruising worthy.

Dig around the forum a bit, you'll find plenty on the Alaska.

[johnw]

Well, there's always the Hvalsoe 16.

Or, if you want an older Northwest design, you might take a look at this:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51X0NK7P3SL._SS500_.jpg

There's a 15' 6" boat in there that might interest you, called Curlew.

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_Qk62rRa2hGc/StzlCqB1MHI/AAAAAAAABbI/Bgk4F0QSZVQ/Fullscreen%20capture%2010192009%2031336%20PM.jpg

I'd want a higher boom, though.

[Thorne]

If you want something with a bit of a cabin, Chebacco might do the trick. Several of them are cruised in the area.

[tbarrows]

You may like the new Aurai 17 http://www.callisto-sailcraft.com We have several ready to go sitting in Port Townsend with matching trailers. If you are the do it yourself type, the Aurai 17 is a derivative of Arch Davis' Penobscot 17.

-tom

[Bob (oh, THAT Bob)]

Welcome!

Hmm, RV6 huh? Brings back memories, I used to be a plane-head. What'd you power it with? I always pined for a rotary-powered RV4. The '6 makes more sense, but the '4 is sportier, at least for the front seat. :D

Like planes, you'll want to pilot a variety of boats before you decide to buy or build. (If you already know the following, please excuse):Sailing lakes versus the sound is like day and night; even though the sound is not the ocean, the waves can get pretty big out there, on the small lakes (Lake Washington, for example), 2-3 foot waves is a big day, on the sound, I forget how big they get at just 20 knots but a lot larger, and 20 knots + can be common in the summer on the sound. To me, that's one of the bigger issues. Stability, flatness of the hull bottom (how hard it whangs down onto a wave, or slices it), how...how...(oh, what do you call it when water washes over the deck....?), how much of that goes into the cockpit, is the cockpit self-baling? Most of the boats I have sailed plane great on the lake, are self-baling (a big plus, but less common on the traditional designs), easy to right when they get knocked down (a keelboat will self-right but a centerboard dinghy is a lot lighter to launch and land), but are a bit too light for the sound on days when the winds are good. What sort of conditions do you expect to sail in?

If you plan on doing much traveling with the boat, perhaps first read Dinghy Cruising by Margaret Dye and husband, they have a 15 foot wooden dingy, but with ample stores under the seats and an advanced boom tent, and they cruise up and down coasts with it, even sleeping in it.

At the Center for Wooden Boats, two boats in particular might strike your fancy, the Blanchard Jr. Knockabout, and the Lightning. Similar size, the Jr. is round chine and a keelboat, the Lightning is hard-chined and daggerboard, I think. Both have decent freeboard for their size, they're not lasers. Winds on Lake Union are sometimes a big sketchy, they are a bit too shielded by hills, so not sure you you can get a good evaluation there.

Dang, I saw a Nancy's China for sale in the past year or two, had a tiny cabin like a West Wight Potter 15, looked mint, for 4 grand I think, I should have jumped at it.

[RV-6 Flyer]

Bob, the RV has an O-360-A1A (180hp) and Hartzell C/S prop, the newer blended airfoil model. It has been flying since late 2004, and has about 300 hrs on it so far. A 9.5 year slowbuild project.

I live on the water in north Kitsap and part of my thinking is based on the fact that the water out here definitely is not Lake Washington, or Lake Union. They don't call it Foulweather Bluff for nothing ... :eek: I've messed around this local area in small power boats (12-24') off and on since I was a kid in the 1960s and am reasonably familiar with what kind of weather and water to expect out here. I still have my Whisp (hanging from the garage rafters) but, as I told my wife when we moved here in 1993, it is "too little boat for too big water", and I've never used it here in Admiralty Inlet - or anywhere on the Sound, for that matter.

So I expect to be leaning towards something that will be reasonably comfortable and dry in the waters from, say, Port Townsend southward. A hefty centerboarder or perhaps something with a keel that is not too heavy/deep . . . :confused:

John

[RV-6 Flyer]

Bob, I'll try posting a photo of the RV-6 here, posing by the hangar after coming home from the paint shop last winter.

Hey, its not a boat, but it has lots of nice curves and was a pretty substantial project....

http://www.hellerwiegenstein.com/ccimages/RV-6/IMG_2681.JPG

[Thorne]

As I mentioned earlier, the Chebacco might be the perfect boat for your waters and needs.

http://www.chebacco.com/chebacco_news/ch26.htm

http://www.chebacco.com/chebacco_news/ch231.jpg

[Eric Hvalsoe]

R-6,
Do you want a daysailer with an outboard for auxilary power, or do you want oars for auxilary power? The 13 and 16, and prossibly the next model would fall into the latter category.

[RV-6 Flyer]

Eric, I would realistically be looking at a small outboard rather than oars. Maybe the old British Seagull we have from the late 60s - early 70s??? :)

[Eric Hvalsoe]

That is helpful. If you are not concerned about pushing the thing with oars you can go for a 'bigger', beamier boat. Some would consider this more comfortable. It is sort of a philisophical divide with very practical implications, I'll let others delve into it if they wish. You have said 'daysailer', but do you want a cuddy or any sort of cabin? You'll get lots of ideas on the forum.

[Tom Robb]

A consideration I'd not thought of until pointed out to me is that the wind can be fluky on the sound and the tidal currents considerable, particularly if up near the straight or the islands. The person telling me this thought that auxiliary motor power is essential. Power in a daysailer doesn't fit the image to me but he may have a point.
Any sound sailors here run into this set of problems?

[johnw]

It's a problem if you want to keep a schedule and can't wait for the tide to change. It's a bigger problem if you keep your boat in an area with little wind and strong tides, like Dalco Passage. You can get swept right down the Narrows there if you can't keep ahead of the current.

[capt jake]

Power in a daysailer doesn't fit the image to me but he may have a point.
Any sound sailors here run into this set of problems?

Axillary power is a MUST. I started with a small electric trilling motor. Then, one day teh wind dies adn we used the motor in an 'attempt' to return. After several hours, the battery started to go and then we paddles. UUGG!

I then went out and bought a small 4hp 2 stroke motor. It was worth it, in spite of the noise when it is running!

All of this and I am in the far south reaches of he Sound, where the tidal action isn't as severe as up there. ;)

[James McMullen]

Those of us who choose to travel the sound without an engine do so partly because of the challenge. If you are looking for a more casual experience then yes, you need a motor.

[Yeadon]

There's always the yuloh ... to complement your solar charged electric motor. It would be interesting to run both together.

Ya gots to get up and yuloh, mister, it'll keep ya warm.

[Bob (oh, THAT Bob)]

Cool pic John.

It's funny, I used to be a plane-head, but found the hassles of flying near a big city to be a pain, and I hated the noise of the motor. But sailing has given me the feelings that I was after with flying, and much quieter, and vastly cheaper.

I agree about the motor. I don't have a tide book handy, but as I recall the tide up there is faster than 6 knots at peak.

[Bob (oh, THAT Bob)]

John, I just sent you a private message about a cool boat for sale. (I don't want the other bilge riff-raff to grab it out from under you.) :D

[rbj37]

Not Northwest, but I don't think you could beat a Lightning for the Sound

[Bob Triggs]

Annother suggestion; take a ride up to Port Townsend and visit the Northwest Maritime Center, look up Kees Prinz there in the small boat shop. Amongst the collection is a beautiful Matinicus Island Peapod. It needs only a bit of work before it joins the livery fleet there. That would be a very solid design for this area. Check out Yeadon's posts here on his explorations of the San Juan Islands and Puget Sound in his own Peapod. That is the boat that I want to build for the waters here, and I am just a few miles north of you.

[Yeadon]

John and I took a wander through CWB's collection recently, and he's he's looking for something trailerable (possibly moored for a few months during the summer, which opens up the possibilities) yet more substantial than a 15 foot peapod, whitehall, open boat, etc. And by substantial he meant stable, more than a few hundred pounds of displacement, with a bit of freeboard and room for a couple people. He eyeballing the Herreshoff 12 1/2 (though it's hard not to stare at it and daydream). A Haven 12 1/2 would certainly fit the bill here, and so would a number of other boats.

It's a fun search that John has started. He's looking to buy, but maintain the boat himself. A turnkey boat is very appealing to him. A Lightning might fit the bill. We didn't look at CWB's, which is on the docks. One thing about CWB's, it doesn't seem like much of a single-hander.

[dpetrzelka]

the 12 1/2 would be a beauty - at the CWB they have both one recently restored, and one waiting for some attention, correct?

This is going to be my "day sailer" for the Puget Sound, a Buzzards Bay14, just a little larger than the 12 1/2...

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2633/3964451899_054f55bc3a_o.jpg