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mdevour
07-01-2005, 09:43 AM
Hello,

My apologies to the forum for asking a question about wood on a plastic boat, as opposed to the more usual issue of plastic on a wood boat, but you're the people I would most trust for this. smile.gif

I was recently bequeathed a Shark 24, built in Ontario about 1963 by George Hinterhoeller. It's one of the earliest designs done in glass and, happily for my taste in things, has a decent amount of teak on it.

The boat is put together with a hodgepodge of materials that has me scratching my head.

The bolts through the toe-rails that hold the deck to the hull are almost certainly stainless, as are the rubrail screws. The mast, deck cleats and chocks are aluminum. The rest of the rigging and fittings are stainless, with the exception of 3 sheet winches which are bronze. :rolleyes:

We pulled the traveller thwart out of the cockpit to refinish it. It was held in by bronze wood screws from below and by stainless bolts through the aluminum traveller track with the nuts and washers underneath.

The very large wood screws that hold the cockpit coamings from below are also bronze.

As yet I don't know how much of this is original and how much the result of owner modifications. The forums for the class are not very active, and the few people who participate don't seem interested in picayune questions like this.

So I'm trying to decide what to do as I put things back together.

So far, the only place I've seen bronze screws used is to anchor structural wood to the glass hull; ie., the coamings and thwart. These two applications are likely original, unlike the cabin top handrails which have obviously been refastened with stainless.

The bronze winches, of course, are held on by stainless hardware, which is probably not original either. :rolleyes:

The Shark is mostly a Great Lakes boat, and, of course, it's not wood. So the materials issue is not as crucial as it would be in salt water or a wooden hull.

So did Hinterhoeller use bronze here to protect structural teak from rot by using the most noble metal on the boat to hold it? That's the best theory I've been able to come up with.

So, what should I do? Keep the bronze where I find it? Replace with stainless? Stop worrying and enjoy my plastic boat? ;)

I would be grateful for your perspectives.

Be well,

Mike D.
Shark #69

mmd
07-01-2005, 09:56 AM
Mike, nothing that you have described above raises any warning flags for me. Hinterhoeller was a good builder, and the fact that the boat is in good shape after forty years is testament to that. It seems that he used traditionally accepted fasteners according to the material being fastened - bronze with wood, stainless with aluminum. The only thing that I would worry about would be that there is a possibility that the stainless bolts in the bronze winches might gall and seize if not regularly cleaned. Maybe an application of anti-sieze compound (available at auto parts stores like NAPA) when you next disassemble the winch for maintenance would be a cheaper alternative to replacing them with silicon bronze ones.

Paul Scheuer
07-01-2005, 10:57 AM
Hi Mike:

Good to hear from you. I hope the bequeathing wasn't too traumatic.

This is going to be a short thread - You can't do much better than the source and advice above. Maybe you should ask what to do about the varnish (or maybe CEPS) :D

But what about the boat ? Sound interesting, got any pics ?

mdevour
07-01-2005, 11:03 AM
Hi mmd,

The vintage of the boat is one reason I don't mind so much that it's not all wood. ;)

I see no reason not to substitute bronze screws for the genoa sheet winch while I've got it off. That's sensible. As for the cost, these are very small winches! tongue.gif

I noticed that the bakelite cleats are bolted on with bronze, too. So that much is consistent.

But then I've got an aluminum track being bolted to the teak thwart with stainless bolts.

I'm pretty sure that this track is not original, as there is a pattern of holes in the wood underneath from something else. I wonder if the original track was bronze? :confused:

It would be better to use stainless with the aluminum, but then it's attached directly to the same piece of wood as all this bronze hardware.

I'm grateful that I'm in fresh water.

So, if I take the coamings off, I will definitely use the original bronze when I re-bed them.

mmd
07-01-2005, 12:19 PM
"But then I've got an aluminum track being bolted to the teak thwart with stainless bolts." - M.G. Devour Maybe a better statement of builder intent would be, "If it won't eat the object it is fastening, use bronze. If it will, use stainless." Regarding the sail track on teak, bronze would corrode the sail track, but stainless won't damage the teak; ergo, use stainless.

mdevour
07-01-2005, 12:55 PM
I hope the bequeathing wasn't too traumatic. Hi Paul,

Dick was a good friend whom I've been sailing with for about 8 years. His death was sudden and unexpected (advanced colon and liver cancer), and I'd expected to have a few more years of his tutelage (and paying the bills) before taking on anything as big as this.


But what about the boat ? Sound interesting, got any pics ?The only picture I've got online right now is this one:
http://www.eskimo.com/~mdevour/other_pictures/shark.jpg

The first few of these was built out of plywood, multi-chined, I believe, and it was a while before they stopped using wooden spars.

Light, stable, fast, there's an active racing fleet. It can also be set up as a decent pocket cruiser for 2 or 3 people.

I'll be visiting across Lake St. Clair from me, near Windsor, Ontario, where the Shark 24 World Cup Regatta is being held starting tomorrow. Field research, y'know! :cool:

mdevour
07-01-2005, 01:12 PM
Maybe a better statement of builder intent would be, "If it won't eat the object it is fastening, use bronze. If it will, use stainless." Ahh, thank you, mmd. Rule of thumb and some logic to go by. I can work with that. smile.gif Whew!


Regarding the sail track on teak, bronze would corrode the sail track, but stainless won't damage the teak; ergo, use stainless.Alright then. I'll go with that.

Be well,

Mike

Wild Wassa
07-02-2005, 12:12 AM
Check the notice board for 'crew wanted'.

Hands-on field research.

Warren.

[ 07-02-2005, 07:50 AM: Message edited by: Wild Wassa ]

Peter Malcolm Jardine
07-02-2005, 10:53 PM
FYI: A fleet of Sharks race out of the Kingston Yacht Club (1896). They have about ....25 or so sharks there.

mdevour
07-03-2005, 09:03 AM
Warren, Peter,

Some "field research" is coming up. If nothing else goes wrong (long story :rolleyes: ) I'll be visiting across Lake St. Clair at South Port Boat Club where the Shark World Cup regatta is going on this week.

My goal is to get acquainted with a few folks and to see and document the rigging and outfitting of well-kept Sharks to help me plan the gradual restoration of mine.

Peter, having a chance to see older Sharks that are relatively unmodified would be a great help. Getting around to visit some of the fleets in the region would let me do that. Any introductions that might help me get in touch with someone at Kingston would be appreciated.

Mike D.