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Paul Pless
10-11-2009, 11:07 AM
I stalled my new tractor out yesterday, and it won't restart. I think maybe a loose wire somewhere between the ignition switch and the starter solenoid. The thing is, I stalled it out with the box blade down (and dug in no less) and had to lower the front end loader to open the hood. The whole effing thing parked in a mud bog about a foot deep. Its too far stuck for me to pull it out with my truck, even in 4x4 low.

Oh why oh why couldn't this have happend in the somewhat heated garage?

Its under warranty and the JD dealer will send someone out to either work on it or drag it out of the woods and to their shop on Monday; but I'd kinda like to be using it today. . .

oznabrag
10-11-2009, 11:09 AM
Welcome to Hell...:cool:

Paul Girouard
10-11-2009, 11:10 AM
Could it be one of the many safety switches that are out of alignment/ adjustment? Maybe a level or switch slightly out of it's "right" position.

A PTO , seat , that got knocked while you where box blading??

Paul Pless
10-11-2009, 11:13 AM
I got 12.5 volts to the ignition switch, but when you turn the key the starter acts like the battery is dead... starter relay popping, and the engine turning only a couple of degrees, etc... etc...

Paul Girouard
10-11-2009, 11:17 AM
I got 12.5 volts to the ignition switch, but when you turn the key the starter acts like the battery is dead... starter relay popping, and the engine turning only a couple of degrees, etc... etc...



Check your levelers and make sure they are in the right spot.

At work this week the home owners Kabota had the same problem , it was a switch down under the seat that a bunch of junk had jambed between, it was a neutral switch . The service guy just cleaned the crap out of the area and it started.

Worth a look anyway.

jack grebe
10-11-2009, 11:19 AM
did ya try jumping the starter solenoid ?

jack grebe
10-11-2009, 11:23 AM
See what ya get for takin off the apron:eek:

Now get back in the kitchen and leave manly stuff
to Kat:p

Paul Girouard
10-11-2009, 11:29 AM
This is that brand new tractor isn't it??

If so you have a level or some safety feature switch screwed up.

I'd suggest NOT monkeying around with "jumpering parts" and or running extra ground wires, etc , etc.

Go check the owners manual and make sure all the things that need to be in a certain position are in the right place.

If not wait for the service guy to do that very thing tomorrow:D

Bruce Taylor
10-11-2009, 11:33 AM
Hmm. Back on the farm, we used to tuck a tire iron under the front grill of the Massey Harris and crank like mad. Guess you can't do that these days, eh?

Glen Longino
10-11-2009, 11:34 AM
Welcome to Hell...:cool:

:D:D

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
10-11-2009, 11:41 AM
Where's the Resident Engineer?

Paul Girouard
10-11-2009, 11:49 AM
Where's the Resident Engineer?



She's more than likely being "Shushed" by Paul as he by now firmly ensconced in front of the TV and a NFL game or possibly The Presidents cup golf matches .

I might further postulate that all this "The tractor won't run" B/S has a lot to do with Sunday football games :D

And come Monday that "right" switch will be found!

oznabrag
10-11-2009, 12:16 PM
...the engine will not start if you stall the engine with a stump or the likes and have the accessories engaged..

There you go! Brand new tractor, unfamiliar operator...it may well be that something is still engaged to that crankshaft. Something hydraulic?

Good luck Paul, but don't do anything that might void your warranty.

Paul Pless
10-11-2009, 12:17 PM
Where's the Resident Engineer?She's playing carpenter today... there's a fair bit of colorful language coming from her end of the shop today... thus standing in the mud tracing loose wires ain't so bad a pass time.:D


I did ask her to give it a look... she said that mechanicing ain't in her job description anymore.


I'm thinking the short is either in the ignition switch module or the starter relay in the fuse panel, as I have traced out just about every thing else. I'm giving up.

Paul Girouard
10-11-2009, 12:21 PM
I'm giving up.



Oh sure you quitter! Go watch football eh:D That'll get you a star on the calendar:D

Not gonna check those levels are ya?

Well I'm off to install a side job , good day eh. Go SEAHAWKS !

How about those Huskies ! !

Paul Pless
10-11-2009, 12:26 PM
Not gonna check those levels are ya?Its not the levels, nor is it the pto safety switch, nor is the neutral safety switch, nor are the hydraulics or steering in a 'bind' . . .

Unfortunately for me at the moment, these modern tractors are wired quite like modern automobiles; think 'no user serviceable parts' inside.

BrianW
10-11-2009, 12:30 PM
An engine that grunts but will not continue on to crank over or attempt to crank is a simple issue of a loose wire, bad connection or a battery thats weak...

...or hydrostatic lock.

bobbys
10-11-2009, 12:31 PM
I have a riding lawnmower with a after market push button to start it.

Had to bypass the key switch.

I had a 52 chevy pickup with a foot starter button. I liked that real simple

Canoeyawl
10-11-2009, 12:36 PM
You better get it fixed before Hell freezes over...

oznabrag
10-11-2009, 12:38 PM
...or hydrostatic lock.

So...Paul needs to open up a bleeder somewhere? Just to see?

Paul Pless
10-11-2009, 12:39 PM
paul's done ******* with the tractor for today

BrianW
10-11-2009, 12:45 PM
So...Paul needs to open up a bleeder somewhere? Just to see?

I'd let the JD guys mess with it.

I don't really believe it's locked up. If so, I suspect pulling the injectors would be the next step.

Paul Pless
10-11-2009, 01:11 PM
Nah... its something electrical... the popping noise is coming from the starter relay in the fuse panel.

Uhh... I had my share of tractor misadventures in Alabama.

Sometime I'll tell y'all about the time Iwas driving from one farm to another and going down a long hill i figured I could go faster by pushing in the clucth and coasting. I think I was about 12 or 13 years old. Might be the dumbest thing I've ever done... almost a Darwin moment.

John B
10-11-2009, 01:14 PM
Boy, you're gonna feel sick if Kat comes down there and taps the battery terminals, and it goes.... best she doesn't eh.

John B
10-11-2009, 05:49 PM
I was kidding Paul, but...
but you did check the battery terminals didn't you. eh ( yeah course he did, he's a petrol head with an English car.. virtually spawned on the Prince of Darkness....,stupid question John):D

Paul Girouard
10-11-2009, 06:54 PM
My "Cyber money's" still on some stupid level / safety switch. New equipment seldom breaks , so I look for a "A-799" sign off / fix for this one.

B-Dub may concur if he remembers his Coastie NAVAIR sign off documentation for VIDSMAF's.

brad9798
10-11-2009, 07:05 PM
That's why I don't drive nice tractors into muddy bogs! ;)

There is just no future in it ... whether it starts or not! :D

SMARTINSEN
10-11-2009, 07:07 PM
Did you try to jump it with a fresh battery?

Volts at the switch does not necessarily translate into enough starting power. I am thinking that you have a dead battery here.

John Smith
10-11-2009, 07:14 PM
I stalled my new tractor out yesterday, and it won't restart. I think maybe a loose wire somewhere between the ignition switch and the starter solenoid. The thing is, I stalled it out with the box blade down (and dug in no less) and had to lower the front end loader to open the hood. The whole effing thing parked in a mud bog about a foot deep. Its too far stuck for me to pull it out with my truck, even in 4x4 low.

Oh why oh why couldn't this have happend in the somewhat heated garage?

Its under warranty and the JD dealer will send someone out to either work on it or drag it out of the woods and to their shop on Monday; but I'd kinda like to be using it today. . .


I can't explain why this happened to you. In my life, I could tell you about the "Smith Curse" but it would only depress me.

If it were me, as a brief example, my warranty would have expired yesterday, and I'd be on my own.

Paul Girouard
10-11-2009, 07:15 PM
It was running when it stalled , how could that kill the battery?

He hit a level and or something jambed into a swt. from underneath and put it out of whack.

Operator error or other operator malfunction. Called the NFL :D

Paul Pless
10-11-2009, 07:20 PM
Maybe I should take bets from you guys on what the malady is and then post the paperwork from the shop when I get it back.:D

The house (thats me) gets ten percent.

John B
10-11-2009, 07:26 PM
Its definitely the terminals:D:D:D

see , he started it, went off roading ( as you tend to do in tractors) humped over a few logs, drove through a few ditches not knowing that 'is trac'or was assembled on friday afternoon 24th december 2008 when Jimbob was about near the end of 'is shift.
Now Jimbob's only job is to lift in the battery and nip up the terminals with his 1/2 in ring spanner . Unfortunately, only the day before the aforesaid christmas holiday nearly here day ,his spanner was nicked and he borrowed a 13 mm one instead. See where I'm going?
Yup , you guessed it . Jimmy boy didn't nip up the terminals properly cos of being in a rush to get down't pub and cram a cold one down his deserving gullet, and because he was playing a decimal tune on an imperial machine .
And thats what our fine young lad Paul has shooken loose with his gallivanting around the property at WOT. They're like the parrot in the monty python skit.. just resting there on the terminals with enough grip to show power, enough clamp to start that baby for the last month or so but now , what with all that air time <shakes head> they need a proper torque up.

or not.

Katherine
10-11-2009, 08:07 PM
The resident engineer was in the middle of a project when the repair request came in. The tractor was added to que. The resident engineer also tends to avoid fixing things that will generate an "I told you so argument."

Paul Pless
10-12-2009, 01:33 PM
I spent most of the morning dragging it out of the woods. Had to use a 6 foot steel peavey to lever the implement out of the ground and off the rear hitch. Then was able to pull the tractor out of the woods with my truck. I found an inline fuse between the ignition switch and the starter that my manual says should be 30 amp but the one that's installed is only a 10 amp. I replaced that with a thirty amp fuse and its still didn't want to crank. It would turn over but only very slowly. Of course its cold and spent the night in the woods with no block heater or anything. I put some jumper cables to it and got it to crank immediately. I turned it off and now it won't crank again. Kinda baffled by the inappropriate fuse installation - shades of John Bertenshaw's jimmiebob prediction.:rolleyes:

A little pissed off with the situation right now. Fixin to get back on it.

BrianW
10-12-2009, 08:38 PM
Did Katherine find out about that tree you hit and knocked over?

Hwyl
10-12-2009, 08:46 PM
Sounding more like John B was right. Do you have the battery on charge right now. You ought to.

What happened to the dealer by the way

Paul Girouard
10-12-2009, 08:56 PM
I found an inline fuse between the ignition switch and the starter that my manual says should be 30 amp but the one that's installed is only a 10 amp. I replaced that with a thirty amp fuse and its still didn't want to crank.

Was the 10 AMP one open / fried? If not it wasn't / isn't the issue. The fuse is to prevent a over draw or over AMP spike of well AMPs.

It would turn over but only very slowly.

Now after all this cranking you more than likely have a low battery.

At least now your levels are in the right position.:rolleyes:




Of course its cold and spent the night in the woods with no block heater or anything. I put some jumper cables to it and got it to crank immediately.

You already need a block heater in Oct? Holy crap man your going to hate winter:eek:


I turned it off and now it won't crank again.

So you still want to think it's not a level or something "odd" you are doing , or NOT doing eh? Yer thick eh!



Kinda baffled by the inappropriate fuse installation - shades of John Bertenshaw's jimmiebob prediction.:rolleyes:

I bet it's a change that the manual missed out on getting updated. If that 10 amp fuse wasn't popped it's not the issue.

A little pissed off with the situation right now.


Beats the hell out of being pi$$ed ON :D



Fixin to get back on it.




So what did ya find , you've had a few hours now?

Mrleft8
10-13-2009, 08:12 AM
If it cranked fine with the jumpers on, it sounds like a flat bat. Probably due to a dead alt.

Paul Girouard
10-13-2009, 08:15 AM
Come on Plessner what's go-in on?

We're burn-in day light here!

Ah well really it's still dark here , but !!!!!!!!!

Russ Manheimer
10-13-2009, 10:33 AM
Bump.

Mrleft8
10-13-2009, 10:40 AM
In reality, it's the rule of 3 (sometimes 4) "F"s. Find it. Fix it. Or !@#$%^& with it. (Fund it is #4) The amendment to the rule is that it'll always happen in the dark, cold, wet, on a steep hill, in traffic, in a cloud of mosquitoes, or when you're running late for an important meeting/wedding, dressed in your best (one) suit.

Paul Pless
10-13-2009, 11:02 AM
I get 12 volts out of my battery and zero cranking amps. I sent the battey into the city with Katherine this morning. The John Deere dealership is gonna exchange it for a new one. No explanation for the wrong fuse.

SMARTINSEN
10-13-2009, 11:36 AM
Told ya.

Paul Pless
10-13-2009, 11:38 AM
Told ya.Its a lot easier taking that from you than it is to get it from Paul Giraourd.;)

John B
10-13-2009, 01:03 PM
Y'all gonna have to cut down watching the TV and making the coffee while you're riding along in that thing:D Those inverters suck y'know.

Strange that the battery has karked it, you haven't dropped a belt?

oznabrag
10-13-2009, 01:10 PM
...
Strange that the battery has karked it, you haven't dropped a belt?

Not really. If the machine hit the dealership early in the year, and has not been used...batteries don't like that. They are also most likely to fail at the change of seasons, or so it has always seemed to me. :)

John B
10-13-2009, 01:29 PM
I agree onz, you expect that after a year or three, but my understanding is that the thing is new ... 6 months old or so?

Ron Williamson
10-13-2009, 05:45 PM
Sometimes a bit of bouncing around will short a cell from the crud at the bottom sloshing up onto the plates.
I've done it.It starts beautifully in the morning and it's buggered after lunch.
R

Paul Girouard
10-13-2009, 07:41 PM
Its a lot easier taking that from you than it is to get it from Paul Giraourd.



Well you got all the letter's, right just in the wrong order:D

So is it proven fixed? Have you started it with another battery? How are you measuring cranking amps?


I think I'm still alive in this cyber bet!

Paul Pless
10-13-2009, 07:51 PM
So is it proven fixed?Not yet, the damn JD dealer doesn't have the right battery in stock. Maybe tomorrow... at least its not a perkins tractor.:eek:
Have you started it with another battery?ayup
How are you measuring cranking amps?The local NAPA store has this neat little battery tester gizmo. I bet the franchise on Whidbey Island has one too.:p

Paul Girouard
10-13-2009, 09:33 PM
The local NAPA store has this neat little battery tester gizmo.

I bet the franchise on Whidbey Island has one too.



I doubt it we're so remote NAPA hasn't found us yet:D

I might have to go to Hell to use one:D

S/V Laura Ellen
10-13-2009, 11:00 PM
Of course its cold and spent the night in the woods with no block heater or anything.

Cold? You're kidding right? It's only October, it's still above freezing!

Bob (oh, THAT Bob)
10-14-2009, 12:13 AM
I stalled my new tractor out yesterday, and it won't restart. I think maybe a loose wire somewhere between the ignition switch and the starter solenoid. The thing is, I stalled it out with the box blade down (and dug in no less) and had to lower the front end loader to open the hood. The whole effing thing parked in a mud bog about a foot deep. Its too far stuck for me to pull it out with my truck, even in 4x4 low.

Oh why oh why couldn't this have happend in the somewhat heated garage?

Its under warranty and the JD dealer will send someone out to either work on it or drag it out of the woods and to their shop on Monday; but I'd kinda like to be using it today. . .

Under warranty? And they'll come get it or pull it out?!! For FREE?!!! Hey buddy, you get no sympathy here, you're on easy street. You don't have crops spoiling on the vine, do you? If not, go sip on some rum, prop up your feet. Wait for the techs.

Captain Blight
10-14-2009, 12:28 AM
Sometimes a bit of bouncing around will short a cell from the crud at the bottom sloshing up onto the plates.
I've done it.It starts beautifully in the morning and it's buggered after lunch.
R
I too have learned this one the hard way. Sulfite spiking is de debbil.

Relay? I hate those things with the white-hot passion of a thousand fiery suns. Relays and solenoids.

ya can't put a wrench to an electron. This is why I ride a bike instead of trying to keep The Tinworm running.

Ethan
10-14-2009, 03:32 AM
....Of course its cold and spent the night in the woods with no block heater or anything. ....:rolleyes:



Somebody is in for a LOOOOONG winter!:D

Mrleft8
10-15-2009, 08:14 AM
Well.......? What's the verdict?

oznabrag
10-15-2009, 11:45 AM
Looks like the jury is still in deliberations...

Paul Pless
10-15-2009, 11:46 AM
I'm still waiting on my new battery.

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
10-15-2009, 11:48 AM
They also wait who only stand and serve?

Mrleft8
10-16-2009, 08:32 AM
Waiting for a battery?.... LOL! I guess they took one listen to yer accent and knew they could have some good fun!.....:D:D:D

Hwyl
10-16-2009, 08:46 AM
Looks like the jury is still in deliberations...


I'm still waiting on my new battery.

Apportioning the cells.

Milo Christensen
10-16-2009, 08:48 AM
I'm still waiting on my new battery.

How funny if a battery for a John Deere tractor shows up in New Zealand and a replacement Perkins Turbocharger goes to Hell.

huisjen
10-16-2009, 09:17 AM
And while we're at it, anybody know any common reason for a 1955 Ferguson TO-35 (three speed plus reverse x hi-lo) to be stuck in reverse? The tranny sounds fine and I drove it all the way from the field to the tractor shed backwards. The hi-lo shift does fine too.

Dan

Ron Williamson
10-16-2009, 11:46 AM
Dan
Google is yer friend.
http://www.ytmag.com/cgi-bin/viewit.cgi?bd=mf&th=74500
BTW The link inside of that one is bust.
R

Mrleft8
10-16-2009, 12:53 PM
And while we're at it, anybody know any common reason for a 1955 Ferguson TO-35 (three speed plus reverse x hi-lo) to be stuck in reverse? The tranny sounds fine and I drove it all the way from the field to the tractor shed backwards. The hi-lo shift does fine too.

Dan If it's similar to my old 8-N tranny, there's a little pin on a linkage arm that gets worn out, and when it falls out, you have the option of being in reverse, or neutral. I drilled a teeny hole in the pin, and used a teeny cotter pin to hold the little pin in position. It's kinda like micro-surgery on a dinosaur. I couldn't do it with the glasses I have now.

John B
10-16-2009, 01:39 PM
How funny if a battery for a John Deere tractor shows up in New Zealand and a replacement Perkins Turbocharger goes to Hell.

The turbo came in a really big box which I ripped open and took what I wanted like a boy opening his presents on christmas day.....Now I think of it, that box was very heavy....

Mrleft8
10-17-2009, 08:33 AM
...Well?....
If you can start the tractor by jumping it, is it back in the garage now, or still out in the swamp?

Paul Pless
10-17-2009, 08:35 AM
%^&&!*$)#:mad:


Does that answer your question? The battery hasn't come in yet. They are promising me it will be here on Monday.

Mrleft8
10-17-2009, 08:40 AM
But can you move it by jumping it from your truck? It shouldn't need a battery to run, just to start.

oznabrag
10-17-2009, 08:43 AM
But can you move it by jumping it from your truck? It shouldn't need a battery to run, just to start.

Whoa! I'm pretty sure that's a big no-no!

On a '55 Massey-Ferguson, yes. On a modern tractor, no.

Mrleft8
10-17-2009, 08:46 AM
Whoa! I'm pretty sure that's a big no-no!

On a '55 Massey-Ferguson, yes. On a modern tractor, no.

??? :confused:

Katherine
10-17-2009, 08:46 AM
To much elctronics on this tractor to just jump it off the truck and not have a battery in it.

Paul Pless
10-17-2009, 08:46 AM
These aren't like old diesels that once you get them running you're okay. Its a direct high pressure injection engine. So it needs the battery to operate correctly. It'll run fine on a completely dead battery, but when you put it under a high load, the alternator doesn't have enough reserve energy to keep it running. The battery kinda acts like a buffer and smooths out the high demand peaks in the power demand curve.

Mrleft8
10-17-2009, 08:49 AM
Ah.... Not like the old 8-N, which was basically a drive train with a seat...

Mrleft8
10-20-2009, 09:20 AM
......And the new battery.......?

Paul Pless
10-20-2009, 09:30 AM
just got installed a few minutes ago... tractor's running perfectly...


Now maybe I can tote some firewood up to the house.:D

Speaking of which, you should see my neighbor's stack, no ****... its about the size of a schoolbus, and I'm not talking a short bus either.

Mrleft8
10-20-2009, 09:35 AM
That's probably a pretty good indication of what you have to look forward to....

Paul Pless
10-20-2009, 09:47 AM
Yes... I find myself envious and worried at the same whenever I drive by it.

Mrleft8
10-20-2009, 02:35 PM
Every time you drive by it, stick yer arm out and snag a stick or two....;)

BrianW
10-20-2009, 04:00 PM
Up and running again!

Cool!

Had an issue with one of our boats this year with one dead alternator (port side) and the other one going bad (stbd side.) The good one hid the fact the other was dead, something not right about the way it was wired, and things got funny electronics wise as it got worse.

First thing to go was the auto-pilot. Not a big deal.

Next was the MicroCommander electric throttles. That will get you attention! :)

John B
10-20-2009, 04:06 PM
Why'd the battery die, any answers on that from jimbob?

Paul Pless
10-20-2009, 04:09 PM
No idears on that John. Tractors are notoriously hard on batteries though - lots of extended downtime and unsprung offroad use too.

John B
10-20-2009, 04:20 PM
I had great success with Waione's house battery by running a small solar panel. It was pretty low amps ( can't remember watt but it didn't require a blow off valve) and it kept the thing alive much longer than I expected.
You do have sun there in Hell doncha?