New to the forum, but not to wood boats. New Project

[mucrewbtp]

Hello all,

My name is Mike and I have been restoring wood boats for approximately ten years. The bulk of my experience has been with old Lymans. I do most of my boating in the Sandusky area and there are a lot of them still around there. Anyway I would like to introduce my new project. It is a 1972 Lyman 35' SeaHawk express cruiser. This is the rarest of the post-war Lymans with only six built. I only know of one other that is currently with us. So when I was offered the boat I couldnt resist the chance to restore her.

The pictures look bad but the rot in the decks is the worst of the damage. The boat was shrinkwrapped which kept the majority of the hull dry and rot free. Moisture that did get in however sat right at the edges of the deck and caused extensive rot. I plan to re-deck in solid teak, so that is not really an issue for me. I will continue to post updates on the project as it moves along.

On to the pictures:

The only picture of a SeaHawk to be found on the internet, from the Lyman Brochure:

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb68/mucrewbtp/seahawk.jpg


The boat as I found it, who knew there was jungle in Ohio:

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb68/mucrewbtp/SeaHawk_0088.jpg

The worst of it:

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb68/mucrewbtp/SeaHawk_0089.jpg

The flybridge had been removed for road clearence:

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb68/mucrewbtp/SeaHawk_0092.jpg


Moved to its new temporary home before being moved into the shop this coming spring:

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb68/mucrewbtp/SeaHawk_0086.jpg





I began removing some of the interior peices and inspecting the hull before the boat gets covered up for the winter. As is always the case with wood boats, there was some good news and some bad news. The bad news is, the boat at one time played host to a heard of squirrels. The good news, besides the several ribs the furry little bastards ate, the hull seems very sound.



More walnuts under the starboard bunk area:

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb68/mucrewbtp/Bunknuts.jpg


So far, I estimate that i have pulled out about 80 Lbs of walnut shells and one mummified squirrel. With this many shells I woner if it is all from the same greedy squirrell that finally brought in so many nuts they collapsed in on him and he could no longer leave. Anyway, I'm not sure if I like squirrels as much as I used to. This week I will finish removing the starboard side bunks and galley, and continue further inspection.

Thanks for looking:


-Mike

[rbgarr]

Rot along the plywood deck edges of Lymans is a common problem Rain and dew run down the deck, get under the stainless rubstrip and sit there in the shade of the cabin, remaining damp.

[Thorne]

Best of luck -- looks like a great project!

[switters]

stupid squirrels, good luck Mike and keep us posted. She will be a beauty when done.

[mucrewbtp]

I will be posting updated photos and information next ime I get out there on wednesday. The critters seem to have gotten absolutely everywhere under the cabin sole, under the bunks, under the head and behind the cabinets. Everywhere that is coverd is packed to the brim. I figure they just hadnt figured out that there was a whole boat above the floor boards. If they had gotten topsides the boat would probably be full to the decks.

[floatingkiwi]

Do squirrels actually eat wood? Hey think of the little guys as actually using the boat for some purpose while it was being neglected by humans. You have done a wonderful thing saving this cool looking boat from being destroyed.

[mucrewbtp]

I dont think they really ate the wood, it seems like they chewed wood in order to create a passageway to another area once they had packed their current area to the gills. On the plus side, I think maybe all the broken walnut shells acted like one of those dehumidifier buckets on a large scale, absorbing moisture more readily than the wood. Besides the damage done by the shrinkwrap in a few places the majority of the hull is in supprisingly good shape. How about a few more pictures.

This will be a good looking boat when its done:

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb68/mucrewbtp/SeaHawk_0087.jpg


The head scares me, waaay to 70's, everything here will be changed.

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb68/mucrewbtp/SeaHawk_0078.jpg


Yep more walnuts here

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb68/mucrewbtp/SeaHawk_0079.jpg


More walnuts under the galley, dis-organized plumbing running everywhere:

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb68/mucrewbtp/SeaHawk_0084.jpg


More of the same, I think I can expect to find this everywhere I look:

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb68/mucrewbtp/SeaHawk_0082.jpg


I can pretend for now:

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb68/mucrewbtp/Bridge.jpg

Thanks for looking,

-Mike

[Lew Barrett]

Good luck Mike. Everybody likes Lymans. We'll follow with interest.

[floatingkiwi]

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb68/mucrewbtp/SeaHawk/SeaHawk_0087.jpg

I see you worked really hard to get this shot, exactly smack dead centre. Well done. Hey while you are changing the head, mount the paper hanger somewhere you can reach the damn thing. I hate that.

[Candyfloss]

Oh. Please don't put that flybridge back on. She looks like a lady at the races with an oversized hat with that thing on. Like the dunny, way too 70s.
Just my opinion. Lovely hull.

[mucrewbtp]

Oh. Please don't put that flybridge back on. She looks like a lady at the races with an oversized hat with that thing on. Like the dunny, way too 70s.
Just my opinion. Lovely hull.

I have considered leaving it off, although this boat would be very hard to dock from the inside helm station. The bridge is also a moose and a half and I'm not sure about the effects of all that topside weight. If I put it on I may try and rebuild it out of a lighter material. I was considering divinycell and glass to replace the areas that were vinyl covered plywood. Does anyone here have experience with the stuff?

-Mike

[mucrewbtp]

A few new pictures, I was out yesterday continuing to strip out the interior of the boat so I can inspect the entire hull. Once the project is done there will be many areas of the hull that will be very dificult to inspect. For this reason I decided the best option was to remove absolutely everything and repar any bit of wood that looks the slightest bit suspect. I started with the removal of the starboard side seating/bunk area.

This doesnt look like it should be too dificult to remove:

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb68/mucrewbtp/PA072204_0099.jpg


This should just be held in with a few bronze fastners right?

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb68/mucrewbtp/PA072199_0094.jpg


How wrong I was, Lyman apparently wanted this bunk to be the last piece remaining in the event of a catastrophic hull failure. Not only was this bunk extremely overbuilt, it was fastened to several structurral members with about 50 crap steel fastners. It was also built in place with one piece covering the screws to the next etc. After what seemed like an eternity drilling off screw heads, delicate work with a fein tool (best tool ever), and some gentle persuasion (angry prying) it finally came free. After some more cleaning I had this.

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb68/mucrewbtp/PA072205_0100.jpg

The good news is after getting everything out, I found only one bad rib. The black staining you see is not rot, but black dye left behind from the husks of the walnuts that once lived here.

The bad news is twofold, first, the main bulkhead that separates the cabin from the engine room has a badly rotted area and will have to be replaced. I was planning on replacing this with teak ply anyway so its not a huge issue. I will wait until I get the engines out to replace this, it will be much easier to work from the other side.

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb68/mucrewbtp/PA072208_0103.jpg

The other bad news, The white tube is the plumbing for the head. When I went to move it it seemed rather heavy. I moved it again and I heard some sloshing. The conclusion, this pipe is full of unimaginable awful that has been festering for the last ten years, and the head is the next thing to come out.

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb68/mucrewbtp/PA072210_0105-1.jpg

Wish me luck,

-Mike

[Lew Barrett]

I have considered leaving it off, although this boat would be very hard to dock from the inside helm station.
-Mike

Nah. :D You'll learn to drive her up to the dock. Many pre-war boats didn't have outside stations (mine doesn't) and we have all figured out how to tie them up anyway!

A lot of boats either had fly bridges added later, or even (as seems to be the case here) had them added by the builders when outside stations got so popular in the 50s.

But that doesn't mean they should be put back on;)
Think about that before you slap it back on, 'cause I agree; she looks sweeter without it!

[mucrewbtp]

Now I'm torn, I spent a little time with photoshop and I think they both look pretty good, but definately a different look. Opinions?

With Bridge:

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb68/mucrewbtp/seahawk.jpg


Without Bridge:

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb68/mucrewbtp/seahawknobridge.jpg


What do you think?

Mike

[Woxbox]

Way better without it.

[ILikeRust]

Without, no doubt.

Although I'm sure it would make it easier to maneuver up on the fly bridge, it most definitely looks way better without it.

[Howard Sharp]

Squirrels do eat wood. At the New York office where I'm currently working, there's a squirrel which climbs the fire escape just to gnaw on the window jambs.

[WX]

Nice lines for a stink boat, good luck with it. Given the amount of mouldering rubbish you pulled I think you have done well to get away with so little damage.

[Eric D]

WITHOUT!!

funny this came up, the moment I saw the picture above, I was thinking how much better it would look without that flybridge but I thought I would be nice and not mention it, but since it has been broached already, much classier without it.

One thought, although I would not want to do it, would be to run all the cables etc. like it was to have the fly but for now, leave it off. Run it for a few years, forget the cables are there and never use them. LOL, or hook them up then once you decide to add it later.

Otherwise, darn nice boat. I wish I found one in that good of condition for that price, wow!!!

Keep up the pics, love the walnuts. Reminds me of my squirrels and all the acorns. Move anything in the fall and you will find a PILE of them.

[floatingkiwi]

Squirrels do eat wood. At the New York office where I'm currently working, there's a squirrel which climbs the fire escape just to gnaw on the window jambs.
I am sure he is not ingesting the wood for nutrition, merely sharpening his teeth or perhaps wanting in where it is nice and warm .
I reckon the functionality of the flybridge warrants it staying but rebuild it to follow the lines of the boat, lower and sleeker perhaps, so it looks like part of the boat and not a giants shoebox that doesn't fit right.

[Lew Barrett]

There's a generic name for the hose that is used in marine sanitation systems, but in deference to the recent crackdown and newfound civility on the forum, I'll defer from using it.

All sanitation hose on a boat will get funky with time and will require periodic replacement. You'll find out why plumbers charge the big bucks when you replace it but the job is not usually the hardest one you'll find on the boat apart from the mental anguish. If the hose is full of water, make sure the through hull is open at the discharge end and see if you can push out the water using the blower side of a shop vacuum. That might be enough pressure to force the effluent out the through hull. I haven't had the need to try this myself, as I'm a "what the hell, go for it" type of plumber, but it seems like it would work, doesn't it? Replace the hose with stuff rated to the purpose, (marine sanitation hose) not something from the Big Box that sort of looks like the hose you are taking out.

Regarding what appear to be add on fly bridges, here are the general rules:
You can thank Chris Craft for making outside and dual stations de rigeur after WWII. In their case, the boats were always designed with some of the most gracefully integrated "fly bridges" (usually called "command bridges"...and there is a difference) to be seen on the post war boats. But for many other, smaller manufacturers, that level of design integration either wasn't possible, or they were adding the fly bridges to previous designs as a "feature" to keep up with the Jonses (Chrises).

For us Johnny come lately restorers, boats like yours present a real dilemma when it comes to this detail. The first thing to do is to discover if this feature really was an original product of the factory, or simply a common addition either added later, or added in the middle of a production run of many boats (and possibly retrofitted to older boats). Seeing two boats with them isn't proof one way or another, as adding "aftermarket" flybridges was a virtual industry in the sixties and seventies. If you determine that the unit on your boat actually was a factory feature, at least you can add it back (if you must!) without being drummed "out of the club."

On the other hand, the flybridge on your boat can almost certainly be called an "afterthought" feature (even if the Lyman factory added it themselves) when one takes into account the fundamental design influences your boat sprang from; a clean, tidy, enclosed bridge cabin cruiser. And I will guarantee you that the worst place to be on your boat in a blow or big chop will be "up thar."

IF it were me, I'd save myself the trouble no matter what the research reveals, but the appeal of an outside station is undeniable, and that's why there is one on your boat. But to my eyes, even if the factory sanctioned the feature, it's fugly and antithetical to the reason I like these boats so much.

In short: fix the toilet first! :D

Added: If you want to keep the bulk of the "eau de toilette" out of the boat without the shop vac, disconnect each end of the hose in turn and plug it using.......large plugs. The problem here? The hose may, or may not, want to come out in one piece. Bon chance!

[Candyfloss]

What Lew said.

[mucrewbtp]

Lew,

Thanks for the advice I will consider those points when I make the final decision. I think I will at least get to the drawing board and see if I can re-design the thing to make it look more like a part of the boat.

-Mike

[gofish]

The 31 Bertram had a nice, small but functional fly bridge. Can you do some photo magic and see what that looks like? Also the 31 or 29 Blackfin.
Ed

[mucrewbtp]

More photoshop, what do you think?

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb68/mucrewbtp/rebridge.jpg

[ben2go]

That's not so bad but I still like her without the fly bridge.She looks much sleeker without the fly bridge.

[PaulC]

I wonder what it would look like with something of a short (cabin top) tuna tower?

[mucrewbtp]

Are you serious? I dont think Lake Erie has any tuna, and I dont fish.

-Mike

[mucrewbtp]

I will probably end up launching the boat without the bridge at first. If I decide to rebuild the bridge, it will be at the very end of the project, and I honestly cannot see myself waiting to launch the boat. The only reason I am doing so much thinking about it now, is I have to decide whether or not to scrap the bones of the bridge that came with the boat. Being that it originally came with the boat, I feel bad somehow getting rid of it. Decisions decisions...

-Mike

[mucrewbtp]

I am currently in the midst of an epic battle with the galley, here are some pictures.

The galley as it started the day:

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb68/mucrewbtp/PA092212_0107.jpg


This thing had a full range with a rotisserie in the oven, I think I will live without the oven when the galley goes back together.

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb68/mucrewbtp/PA092224_0119.jpg


After an arduous struggle, the old range is ripped from its socket like a bad tooth.

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb68/mucrewbtp/PA092225_0120.jpg


Starting to take out the counter top

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb68/mucrewbtp/PA092227_0122.jpg


A little epoxy should fix this right? Luckily this level of rot is limited to the counter only, it did not appear to spread to any hull planking.

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb68/mucrewbtp/PA092228_0123.jpg

Next up, the fridge:

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb68/mucrewbtp/PA092222_0117.jpg



More to follow later in the week.

-Mike

[Candyfloss]

Ye gods..........

[PaulC]

Are you serious? I dont think Lake Erie has any tuna, and I dont fish.

Well actually I was serious. Instead of having a sheeted (plywood) facing, leave it open with just stainless tubing. It doesn't have to be tall, its just instead of what you have now. Take a look at some of PipeFitters creations.

[mucrewbtp]

Paul,

I will take a look, I thought you were mocking my liking of the bridge by suggesting a giant aluminum tower. I like the look of the boat without, but I like the functionality of a high point of view so maybe thats a possibility.

-Mike

[mucrewbtp]

The galley continues.

The fridge is removed, but it was appearently installed right after the keel was laid. It has no chance of fitting through the hatch. Something creative will have to happen.

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb68/mucrewbtp/PA092230_0125.jpg


Since i decided to save money by cleaning up and re-using the fridge, I carefully cut it into three sections so I can assemble it inside again at the completion of the project.

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb68/mucrewbtp/PA142251_0140.jpg


Countertop and appliances removed:

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb68/mucrewbtp/PA142238_0127.jpg


It looks like theres a little history of moisture here:

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb68/mucrewbtp/PA142241_0130.jpg


This side of the boat does not look as happy as the other:

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb68/mucrewbtp/PA142244_0133.jpg


Some planking well be in order, and a few ribs as well.

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb68/mucrewbtp/PA142245_0134.jpg


More to follow later.

-Mike

[mucrewbtp]

Someone sent these to me the other day, I thought I would share.

The cover of the 1971 Lyman brochure featuring the SeaHawk Express Cruiser.

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb68/mucrewbtp/coverbig.jpg

A page from the brochure on the SeaHawk.

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb68/mucrewbtp/1971expbig.jpg

Enjoy,

-Mike

[Eric D]

Very nice pictures of that factory fresh look.

I like the comments on salvage of the fridge, at first I thought you might be serious and then I saw the ground pics...thanks for the laugh. Looking good, keep at it.

[mucrewbtp]

FInally got the first section of cabin floor out. Here are some pictures.

Walnuts and cotton, no suprise here:

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb68/mucrewbtp/PA192261_0150.jpg


I think I will be replacing all of the plumbing, no sense trying to trace this out:

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb68/mucrewbtp/PA192262_0151.jpg


The bilge after all the nuts and debris removed. The area under the galley looks like it has much more damage.

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb68/mucrewbtp/PA192268_0157.jpg


The debris from the critters held moisture and rotted through about two or three plys, some planking to be done here, along with some rib work.

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb68/mucrewbtp/PA192275_0164.jpg


How to create a shoddy butt block repair:

1. Locate hole to be repaired.
2. Ignore original source of rot
3. Cram in scrap wood barely larger than damaged area
4. Scour garage for sheet metal screws of various length
5. Drive screws in at random locations in order to confuse the rot spores.

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb68/mucrewbtp/PA192277_0166.jpg

Thanks for looking,

-Mike

[ripley699]

Mike,
You were quite lucky because what you had were obviously gray squirrels...red squirrels DO eat wood and at a very high speed if they like it .I am in the north east of U.S.A and we have grays and reds


I sure do like the look of that 1971 seahawk !!!

Lymans are lovely boats and deserve to be saved at every chance..........

RIPLEY

[NealmCarter]

Wheres the pic of the squirrel mummy ?

[mucrewbtp]

Sorry, no pictures of the squirrel. Out of respect for the family, we chose to have a quiet burial. No photos were taken.
-Mike

[chuckt]

I vote for no flying bridge too. And no tuna tower either. I really like this boat--good luck.

[mucrewbtp]

Chuck,

I am slowly coming to terms with the idea of not having a fly bridge. I agree completely that it looks better without it, but I do enjoy the view offered by a bridge, and I feel bad scrapping a piece of equipment the boat originally came with.

Keeping the bridge off would reduce weight, simplify electrical and control systems, and make the boat more stable by bringing the center of gravity down lower. So looks and logic point toward leaving it off. In any case I have a while to think about it because if I do decide to rebuild the bridge it is dead last on the list of things to do. Knowing me, once the boat is sea worthy I will want to get it in the water and forget all about the fly bridge.

-Mike

[floatingkiwi]

If this boat were mine I would set about gutting the whole thing, down to the hull, so I knew what to do to make her good again.

[sdowney717]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/4489792.stm

Be very careful with squirrels especially those running in packs


Squirrels have bitten to death a stray dog which was barking at them in a Russian park, local media report. Passers-by were too late to stop the attack by the black squirrels in a village in the far east, which reportedly lasted about a minute.
They are said to have scampered off at the sight of humans, some carrying pieces of flesh.
A pine cone shortage may have led the squirrels to seek other food sources, although scientists are sceptical.


http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41079000/jpg/_41079230_blacksquirrel203.jpg

[mucrewbtp]

If this boat were mine I would set about gutting the whole thing, down to the hull, so I knew what to do to make her good again.

Believe me, that is the plan. It is in the process of being gutted right now. I will be removing the whole interior deck and deckhouse and inspecting repairing or replacing everything necessary. With a cruiser like this there are many spots that are difficult or impossible to get to once the interior is installed. I want to be able to inspect absolutely everything so I can be confident with the finished project.

Ps. I have been following your project with interest as well.

Regards,
Mike

[orbb]

Now I'm torn, I spent a little time with photoshop and I think they both look pretty good, but definately a different look. Opinions?

With Bridge:

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb68/mucrewbtp/SeaHawk/seahawk.jpg


Without Bridge:

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb68/mucrewbtp/seahawknobridge.jpg


What do you think?

Mike

You are really good with photoshop - do you think you can come up with a picture showing the squirrels in command of her?

Keep up the posts - very entertaining and informative.

[BlueLancer]

Cracking good posts, you obviously have a good sense of humour. Something you will no doubt need on a regular basis when renovating this beautiful boat. Tree rats are a real pain,as stated good job not of the red variety.

[mucrewbtp]

To those who have been following this thread, I have started a new one here to document the continuing restoration. I would have continued this one but I had given it an unfortunately ambiguous title and it was hard to search for. The new thread is here: http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?118985-Restoration-of-a-rare-35-Lyman-Sea-Hawk

[floatingkiwi]

Believe me, that is the plan. It is in the process of being gutted right now. I will be removing the whole interior deck and deckhouse and inspecting repairing or replacing everything necessary. With a cruiser like this there are many spots that are difficult or impossible to get to once the interior is installed. I want to be able to inspect absolutely everything so I can be confident with the finished project.

Ps. I have been following your project with interest as well.

Regards,
Mike
Excellent. Thank you.

[Pismo10]

Fabulous thread, love the 35 SeaHawk. One for sale now. I am on Lyman #3, a 1958 23'. Love them.

[mucrewbtp]

Where have you seen one for sale? Are you referring to the one posted on the Lyman Boat Owners Association website?

Regards,
Mike