How much of a project would this be?

[lumberdude]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270462697938&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT

I'm just wondering what a boat this size and type would set a guy back to restore. Are we talking 15 grand? 30 grand?

I've always wanted something like this, and we're in no way ready for this yet, but it doesn't hurt to dream and investigate just in case a financial windfall comes my way.

I realize this is a loaded question. But this boat looks to be in pretty good condition. Assuming the engines are in good shape, how much would worst case vs. best case be?

[StevenBauer]

Hey Cory. Isn't that like the one Katherine has? It really depends on condition. You know the drill - get a survey.

Steven

[lumberdude]

Why spend money on a survey when I have all you fine folks at the wooden boat forum at my fingertips??:D

[kc8pql]

Why spend money on a survey when I have all you fine folks at the wooden boat forum at my fingertips??:D
Because none of us are there to do a hands on inspection. A boat that's ready to sink can look perfect in a picture. A survey is never wasted money.

[lumberdude]

Okay, you guys are way to serious.

I'm just looking for some sort of answer like, "You could expect to spend $xxx dollars if the engines are good and the hull is generally in tact. On a boat like this you could spend $xxx dollars on redoing the interior. When the boat is fully restored and back to pristine condition, it would be worth aproximately $xxx dollars " For example....

I wasn't looking for an exact figure, or some precise answer. Just some general idea as to what people on this board have come across in their projects, restoring something similiar. I would bet there are alot of lurkers out there that are curious as to what restoring a classic old wooden boat would cost. Just in case they are playing with the idea of taking on such a project. When I get really serious about fixing one up, I of course will have a survey done, but until then, I will do a little research online and get a vague idea.

[peter radclyffe]

dodgy internet surveys are us .com- photos not needed
restoration cost from 1-50 grand
next http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Bob Cleek]

Okay, I'll bite... it's a fifty-one year old boat that was never intended to last that long. The pictures are revealing. Anybody can slather dark stain on mahogany. The fact that they started there when they decided to unload the boat, while the "starboard engine needs a new head gasket" is a red flag to me. So's the condition of the transom in the photo. "Purely cosmetic," perhaps, but powerboats of this type and age so often have totally rotten ass ends. I don't know how many guys I've seen trying to replace transoms on them. Don't forget, either, that the engines are "original." This DOES NOT mean they are "classics." They are over fifty years old and he doesn't tell you what type of flat head sixes they are. You may find parts are hard to come by. The manufacturer may well be out of business. You might discover that a replacement head gasket, if you can find one, is prohibitively expensive. (And why didn't the seller slap a new head gasket on it and have two "strong" engines? Seems like that would have been a small investment that would have paid a big return if the boat is otherwise so great. Could it possibly be that the engine was run overheated and the head warped? Mmmm?)

The seller is NOT offering anyone the opportunity to survey the boat. It's on eBay. It's a pig in a poke.

So, how much to "restore" it? As everyone says, there's no way to tell. To "as new" condition? Well, the question then is "for what?"

Here's the bottom line: It may be a "steal" at $2,500 or it may be $2,500 thrown down the crapper. One thing is for sure, though. Whatever amount of money one might put into "restoring" it to full function and sound condition, whatever that might entail, isn't going to yield much of any "value added." It's an old production factory built boat. It never was a "classic" and it never will be. It might be a decent "daily driver" for a few years, but that's about it. It's a 1958 Ford, not a 1958 Ferrari 250 Spyder. "Restore" classic yachts. "Repair" the rest and use them.

If you are really interested, find out where it is offered locally, as he says, and go down there and look at her with your own eyes. Tell the guy you want to go over here with a fine tooth comb. If he objects... walk the other way. There's WAY too much that could be wrong with the boat not to satisfy yourself of the actual extent of what has to be done.

Whatever it might cost to bring it up to snuff is almost certainly a lot more, by several times over, than it will ever be worth. If you want figures, you can pretty much expect you will be needing new engines. That will proobably run you somewhere around fifteen to twenty grand if you can fit something generic and relatively inexpensive in there. Do you think that's a worthwhile investment in a boat like this one?

[George Roberts]

Bob Cleek always seems to give good advice.in these matters.

[nextse7en]

A big one,

Count on...
Rot where you can't see it, fastener issues, inept repairs by previous owners.

Count on...
Hundreds of hours spent on exterior cosmetics, recovering cabins tops, repairing/fairing cabin sides.

Count on..
Malfunctioning/dead gage and wiring issues, malfunctioning sanitation systems.

Count on...
Leaking decks, oily bilges, cracked chines, broken ribs.


It sounds like I'm being disparaging, I'm not. I've got an even bigger boat refit/repair underway. I've been working approx 60 hours a week on it for about 3 months, I've spent around 25000 dollars, and about about 3/4's of the way done. The 25 grand is for paint, varnish, tools, skilled labor, haulouts, and lumber. Thats with me doing 95% of the work. I'm loving it, but its a commitment that is on par with buying a house or keeping an exotic pet. Once you're in, you're in. If you buy the boat, spend 15 grand, and get it 75% complete, you'll be lucky to sell it for what you bought it for.

If you buy it, and complete it down to every last plank, prop, and guard rail, you might sell it for a small loss, if you complete it to less than that spec, your losses could be great.

If you go for it, you won't find a more helpful group than this one. Just make sure your in it all the way to the finish line.

This is my restoration thread, it might give you a good idea of what you may find.

http://woodenboat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=100563

Good luck!

-Patrick

[Larks]

Patrick, you forgot to mention the dildo..........:

[lumberdude]

Now that's the kind of response I was looking for. Thank you Bob and Patrick.

Bob, that's exactly what I was wondering. How much would a boat like this be worth after restoration. From what I understand by what you are saying, this type of boat was never a cadillac to begin with, so a full restoration would only be "worth" it if you were really into this particular boat, and are not looking at it from a making money investment. Based on that, what brands truely are classics?

Patrick, I'll check out your link. Thanks.

I've been toying with the idea of getting a boat like this, restoring it, then using it for a dive boat on the lake nearby. I've always liked these old wooden cruisers. But when the time comes to sell it and walk away, I'm a little concerned that I would be able to do that even with it fully restored. Then I would be stuck with something I put alot of labor and love into that I would have to abandon. But there is no way I'm getting a fiberglass boat! It's a woody or nothin!

[Peerie Maa]

Some of those photo's suggest some fairly dodgy workmanship, especially this one http://app3.sellersourcebook.com/users/9367/img_0135.jpg

[katiedobe]

Find a nice design you like and will fit your needs and build it yourself.
Sounds like you want a boat to use not a project for life or a member of your family like Rita is to Lew.

There are lots of simple to build, yet elegant plywood designs out there that once you build it will give you decades of good service.
Just go to the design/plans page and ask the question.

Walk away from this boat. I had a friend in Portland, not a woodworker, just a guy who inherited a fair amount of money and he bought a late 50's power cruiser 36' I think. Man he paid lots of money to a yard to replace the transom, chines, frames, and some planks. Way more than he could have bought a newer late model fiberglass boat. All he wanted was to get out on the water for weekend trips. He bought the woodie because the purchase price was cheap and he thought "how expensive can it be to have a little wood on the transom fixed and some paint?"

Silly man!

[lumberdude]

Find a nice design you like and will fit your needs and build it yourself

Exactly the question that was getting ready to ask about.

If a boat like this could run up into the high 20's to restore, what would building something similiar from scratch run? Of course, I'm not talking about a place to build it, or tools and such, just the boat.

[katiedobe]

Post your question to the design/plans page and see what the answers are. First you need to start with a design. Plywood, carvel, strip plank, solid lapstrake, glued lapstrake, cold molded... so many choices.
Then you can get an idea from these people of how much and how long.
Where will you build it? Do you need to pay rent on the space?
All these questions are pertinent to the cost question.

[kc8pql]

Exactly the question that was getting ready to ask about.

If a boat like this could run up into the high 20's to restore, what would building something similiar from scratch run? Of course, I'm not talking about a place to build it, or tools and such, just the boat.
The only reason to build a boat from scratch is because you want to build your own boat. It will cost even more than rebuilding. I know. I built mine. The least expensive way to acquire a boat is to buy an older one that has a already been rebuilt and has passed a rigorous survey done by a surveyor who knows wooden boats. That way the other guy takes the loss and you get a good boat.

[katiedobe]

That is absolutely true! But buy a boat that is in reasonably good condition. Don't buy that boat he is looking at.

[seo]

"Restoration in the high 20's" he said. Who said? Lumberdude, as far as I can tell, plucked that number out of thin air.
Well, maybe not, as long as restoration can be done with stain and cheap varnish.
A very simple rule: Do not buy or put money into a wooden boat with any expectation of seeing it again.

[peter radclyffe]

a major problem with burnout on restorations,
is that the terrific amount of energy you expend initially,
is used in pulling the boat apart

now, if you used that energy in building new
you'd be well on the way
instead of which
on a restoration
you at that stage, have just started the new work

it is of the utmost importance that when you feel gutted you walk away from the boat, charge your batteries, see something new & inspiring, chill out , whatever, do not let the boat feel like a burden to you,
because you may start hating it
& then it will be a struggle

or ask john welsford or mmd or others for new plans

[floatingkiwi]

http://app3.sellersourcebook.com/users/9367/img_0149.jpg

Fortunately there is always the odd photo here and there to deter the smart individual.
Don't buy and/or restore a wooden boat because you want a nice wooden boat. Do it beacause you love restoring wood boats.