RESTORATION OF THE "OHYES"

[Maxie Herrington]

"Listen to my voice, and harken unto my words," says your neighbour to the north. I am a proud Canadian. And I am proud and grateful to have the U.S. of A. as our only neighbour. The United States, her critics notwithstanding, is a bastion against the evil in our world. We are few in numbers in Canada, though large in area. Speaking for myself, and I'm sure,for many thousands of my country-men - we stand shoulder to shoulder with you, in these perilous times.

Working at Xerox here, I have the daily pleasure of speaking with our American customers, from Alaska to Puerto Rico - Maine to Hawaii. Helping them get their copiers up and running again, and enjoy the job immensely.

WE SHALL PREVAIL, MY BROTHERS AND SISTERS!

Here endeth the lesson.

Now to the matter at hand.

I'm restoring a 26', round bottom motorboat, that's been in our family from 1922 to 1977, then back again in 1996.The "OH YES", is narrow of beam, 6'6", and is built of 3/4" pine on 3/4"x2" frames. She has a draft of 2'6". Her backbone is good, being replaced in 1957-60.

Any help you could offer on the following questions would be much appreciated:

Dad was a great believer in Pentox, as I am. Can I apply it to most everything I'm working on? Bare old, and new planking?The new frames? The plywood cabin-sides?

There was a great article on screws in the latest issue of, WoodenBoat. What metal combination would you recommend? We sail the St. John river, which is fresh water, for the most part. And should the screw shank be the same length as the thickness of the planking? (3/4") In other words, should the thread only be in the frames?

I plan to canvas the decks and cabin-top. Haven't approached the boys at our local canvas shop yet. If the only available canvas is light weight, can I put down two layers? The transom is approx. 5'7"x2'8". Should I use one piece of 2" oak? (Yes, it's available) Or should it be two pieces for damage replacement purposes?

This project will take three years, at least, and the journey will be almost as rewarding as the destination. I turned 60 last week, but feel 30.I'm bringing her to the backyard,(with my wife's blessing.) She and I sailed on her with our three kids, when they were small. Plan to work on her evenings and weekends.

I have many items that were removed when we sold her in 1977. Brass lanterns on gimbals, which I plan to convert to 12 volt. The original brass helm,with wooden spokes, hand-held dual horn, anchor, running lights, bronze cleats and chocks, shaft, folding stern anchor, block and fall with my grandfather's initials carved in one of the blocks.

I plan to put a 6 hp One-lunger, make-and-break engine in her for power. We had an Essex of the same breed from 1923 till 1955.

They had me sailing on her when I was three months old, in 1942. She's in my blood, and part of my soul.

I plan to build Arch Davis's Sand Dollar, for a sailing tender.

Any suggestions you might have would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks. Max.

[Alexander Shramenko]

And the evil is....?

[Northernguy59]

Max,

What a family treasure you have. Good luck to you in your restoration process !!

[Wild Dingo]

Max I wont attempt to answer your questions as there are far better than I here who are more able and qualified to do so... what I can do is to keep bringing it back up until one of the old fellas gets up from his snooze and responds!! :D

Oh and I can ask... Please post pics! If you are not sure how to let us know and we will walk you through it. :cool: Watching these restorations and builds keeps the rest of us going

Bob Cleek or Dave Fleming should be along right soon and will probably give a disatation on what to do how to do it and why you should or shouldnt do it... We even have our own personal chemist here so he may wander in and give a full informational seminar on the pros and cons of Pentox... as I said far more experience than I :cool: Oh Bob and Dave were the two names that come to mind straight off the top of me head by the way theres also Ed Harrow whos doing a major restoration himself and would be a wealth of information for you along with Concordia who is also known for her rebuilds oh along with hubby Dave of course! ;) among others... If Ive forgotten someone dont get your nickers in a twist how many names can a guy remember in one post??

Hang in there they'll get in here just as soon as they find their dagnabit specks and toss their teefs in their gobs and wheel the old chair in front of the computer... :D well okay Ed, Margo and Dave aint quite there yet!! :D ..... mmmmmmm better shut up about now I reckon!

Sounds like a great family hairloon you got their Max! oh and welcome pull up a stool and rest awhile have a yarn and make some mates... :cool:

Take it easy
Shane

[ 06-22-2002, 09:09 AM: Message edited by: Wild Dingo ]

[On Vacation]

I would like to add my sincere thanks for your comments and your thoughts of being the U.S. neighbors and just only wish we had more of your folks here in this country that spoke of the pride of living here on the mainland.

Your project does sound like something to maintain as long as you can. But I will leave it for the experts here as I am just a glue head. Good luck. smile.gif

[Art Read]

"I turned 60 last week, but feel 30..."

God, I hope that's a "trend". Getting ready to turn 40 myself. My "mindset" is still in the early twenties, but my various joints are starting to tell the lie!

Sounds like you have your project pretty well in hand. Not familiar with "Pentox", is that like "Cuprinol"? I'm a firm believer in almost any "poison" on wood that will live in a boat. You read any of our long winded debates on CPES here yet?

As for a "combination" of metals, I'm just doing the best I can to make sure everthing that isn't wood is made out of bronze. And I try to ignore any literature that suggests my bronze may be less than "ideal". If it says "silicon bronze", I'll buy it. (and yes, I've seen plenty of my #8 screws twist off, but I just blamed myself.)

Never thought about two layers of canvas before. But I'd guess one layer of the proper weight would be simpler and easier to get down. Tried Jamestown Distributers yet? I think they'll have what you want.

My transom is a bit smaller than yours. One piece of solid mahogany. Yours being oak, I wonder if building it out of two pieces, with the grain opposed, might not help prevent any potential warping problems?

Sounds like a GREAT project! I wish I could get my hands on my Dad's old boat... And thanks for the "moral support", by the way.... We may "bumble" our way through our various troubles, but I like to think, at the end of the day, we have our hearts in the right place...

[Conard]

Congratulations. Sounds like a great project, and I can't wait for regular updates and photos. I got into wooden boat ownership because my parent's old boat came on the market (a 25' Winthrop L. Warner sloop they owned in the 50's before I was born). It turned out it was in pretty bad shape, and Dad and I ended up buying a 23' L.F. Herreshoff sloop instead, but that was our inspiration. You will have a great time. Thanks for the sentiment at the beginning of your post. We here in Vermont have close connections with your great country.

[RGM]

Maxie, thanks for the kind and appreciative words. We get up to B.C. every once in awhile. Not as often as we would like. Always have an enjoyable time when visiting our Canadian neighbors.
Pentox? Must be what was once available in the states known as as Penta. A very toxic and effective wood preservative whose key component was pentachlorophenol. Pretty sure it's unavailable and "illegal" to use in the U.S. now. If it's available in Canada I suppose that using it would be your choice. Keep in mind that it's a serious poison so treat it that way.
Threads only into the frames? By the book that's the proper way. However, in reality this doesn't always happen, especially if it's something that you don't do alot of. It's a good standard to shoot for. The head of your fasteners should be set deep enough in your planking to allow "meaningful" installation of bung plugs. Do you have a few of the standard wood boat repair books in your library? If not, get some.
10 oz. canvas should do the trick. If it's not readily available then order some and install one layer. Consider installing it over a layer of Irish Felt.
For transom planking I would go with more than one plank and the planks that I would use would be well air dried and quartersawn/vertical grain for dimensional stability. Don't use flat sawn material if you can help it.
You might be 60 feeling 30 but your boat is definitly 80 years old. She's probably hogged to some degree, even with the newer keel (42+ yrs), so when you set her up in your back yard build your keel blocking to accomodate her hog. You can't change that now so it's best to accomodate it. Provide shoring under the forefoot and horn timber and at the turn of the bilge at the transom.
Sounds like a more than worthy project. Good luck.

[ 06-22-2002, 01:40 PM: Message edited by: RGM ]

[Maxie Herrington]

Thanks, everyone, for your suggestions and encouragement. Silicone bronze it is. One layer of 10 oz. canvas, and a two-piece transom. And to satisfy my lust for sailing, while we're anchored at Purdy's Point, I think we'll go for the Riverside Dinghy as a tender/grand-children trainer, featured in the current issue of WoodenBoat.

I'd like to tell a true story, that you Yanks might especially appreciate.

In 1936/37, my Dad, Bayard, built, with able assistance from the Logan boys, a 22 foot Target Class, gunter rigged cutter, designed by Sam Crocker. As they neared comletion, Dad and my Grandfather, Ned, drove to Bath Maine in their Model A, to get some hardware and fittings for the, "DOVEKIE".

When at the outfitters, they enquired about the big shed across the street. The proprieter said it was a secret, but apparently realizing the harmlessness of these two Maritimers, told them it housed the next possible America's Cup defender, Well! The questions flew, and after a bit, the proprieter told them to go to the door of the shed, ask for so and so, tell him I sent you, and you might get to see her. They did just that, and after a cursory inspection, they were let in. The hull and deck were completed and a ladder ran up to her quarter. As Dad and Grampie stood at the foot of the ladder, all agog,the foreman said,"Go on up."

So, my Dad and my Grandfather, stood on the deck of the famous, spoon-bowed "RANGER", the last of the "J" boat defenders.

Thanks again. Max.

[Dave Hadfield]

If you have to re-fasten, and you don't want to weaken the frames with any more or larger holes, you might consider copper rivets. It takes 2 people, but it's solid, really clenches things up, and can use the same hole.

Perhaps this wouldn't suit if the roves would be in plain view inside, but it's something to consider

There was a good article on refastening with rivets in Wooden Boat a while back -- getting the back issue CD would be a good reference for you and while this seems expensive, would probably re-pay itself the first major job you tackle.

Good luck.

[Bruce Hooke]

Here is my take on a few of your questions:

For the fastenings, what metal are the screws that are now in her made of? It is best not to mix metals if you can avoid it (some combinations are safer than others). If this is not an issue for some reason (e.g. you are doing a fairly complete re-fastening as part of the repairs) then bronze is definitely the metal of choice (unless you decide to use rivits in which case copper is called for (copper and bronze can safely be mixed)). The ideal arrangement is to have the shank of the screw extend just past the joint line because this is where corrosion often starts and so more metal here is good. However, this is rarely possible since the frames are rarely deep enough to make this practical. The Herreshoff's apparently got around this by getting custom made screws with shorter threaded portions, but this is not an option for most of us (unless you have a need for half a million screws or so :D )!

I would NOT use two layers of thinner canvas because the top layer will wear out or rip more quickly than one thicker layer would and once the top layer goes you are pretty much back to having to redo the canvas. That said I doubt you will have that much trouble finding heavy enough canvas to do it with one layer.

I'm not sure I fully understand what your question is on the transom. Are you actually thinking that you might be able to get one piece of oak that is 2'8" wide? If so then by all means use it, but treat it like the treasure that it is. Also, make sure that the board does not contain or pass very close to the heart of the tree because this will create a line of weakness. So, a good quality heartwood plank 2'8" wide would call for a tree that is at least a good 5 -6' in diameter! So, I'd guess that you will end up having to glue up your transom, but I see no reason to intentionally make it from more pieces just to make possible future repairs easier. If some part of the transom needs repair down the road and you don't want to remove the entire board in question you can always just remove part of the board if you want to and create a new seam.

Good luck with the project. It sounds like a great family treasure.

[Maxie Herrington]

Hello again.
The planking of the "OH YES" is fastened to 3/4" x 2" oak frames with clinched boat-nails. I plan to sister all of these frames, and when in place, grind off the bend-over of the nails and remove the old frames. Think I'll double-up amidships, to reduce vibration from the one-lunger. Since all old fastenings in the planking will have been removed when she goes back in the water, I'm seriously considering silicon-bronze screws - provided a second mortgage on the house is not required. I plan to cover the screw-heads with seam compound, as Dad did with the boat-nails. With careful sanding and paint preparation, she'll meet my standards. She's not a china-cabinet, but she'll be finished well and properly. She's pure round-bottomed - no reverse bend in the bilge, so I might try to use one- piece frames in the middle third of the hull, from gunnel to gunnel, to resist the downward force of a running Make-and-Break. Have decided another reason for a two-piece transom, is the definite possibility that a wrong measurement or cut, and the whole thing is wasted.

Thanks again, everyone. I value your moral and practical support. My Grandfather built a 40' motorboat, and Dad built Sam Crocker's, Target Class, 22' gunter-rigged, raised deck cutter. Surely there's enough in the gene pool for me to restore the "OH YES", and build the Riverside Dinghy.

[bobkaschak]

Thanks for the kind words Max! It's good to have good neighbors, and you guys are great. (hey... you brought us hockey). You guys have a great national anthem also. Sorry, but no input on the boat, just appreciate the words a lot.
Bob K.
USA

[Maxie Herrington]

Late reply to RGM.

Hi. Busy summer. You inquired about Pentox. I quote the label; "PENTOX GREEN is a water repellent wood preservative containing 2.35% copper as in Coppernapthenate and 0.075% Bis (tri-n-Butyltin) Oxide in petroleum solvents. Used for the treatment of dry wood, ropes and fabrics against rot and mildew. Treated wood, free from all solvents will not harm plants. May be painted - darker shades recommended. Will bleed through white and pastel shades. Colour fading does not affect preservative. Meets Canadian Navy specifications and United States Navy specifications.

There you have it, Sir. In 1957, Dad rebuilt the backbone of the, "OH YES", with timbers soaked with Pentox. They are just as sound today. You can still the green of the Pentox on the bilge timbers. Each spring, he'd make the first coat of bottom paint with equal parts of copper paint and creosote. Then two coats of straight copper bottom paint. Some years, we'd actually have to put a little water in the bilge to keep her sweet. Didn't leak a drop.

[Maxie Herrington]

Shane, a late reply to you. Thanks for your comments. Shortly, I'll have a good picture of the, "OH YES" on a CD, and will no doubt need your assistance getting it launched into CyberSpace. Stay tuned.

[Maxie Herrington]

This for Art Read. Art, see my post to RGM re Pentox. I too, plan to use Silicon Bronze.

I've abandoned the two layer canvas idea. Local sail making shop has 16 oz. available. They've not heard of Irish felt, but do have a vacuum bag filtre material in sheets. Looks like a furnace filtre. Kind of. Sort of. Anyway, what do you think about putting tar paper under the canvas?

I agree with your transom idea.

Sept. 11th was a terrible massacre. One thing it's done for me, is to cause me to reflect on the greatness of our two nations - that we're free and turn no deserving soul from our shores.

We are like-minded in most of the important areas of civilized life. I feel my connection to England and Scotland, which is historical and romantic, but feel you in the U.S., are like brothers and sisters. The United States stands between liberty and freedom, and the tyranny of evil. I was born June 5, 1942, during the battle of Midway. You lost many brave men on that day. I feel honoured to have come into this world during that battle. Regards. Max. (P.S. Your hearts ARE in the right place.)

[Maxie Herrington]

This for Bob K. Bob, thanks for the kind words. Sept. 11th has made me realize anew, what we have - our two countries. When that which you hold most dear, and often take for granted is threatened, it's a wakeup call - no question. You Americans are not alone in these disturbing times. We stand with you - hand in hand, shoulder to shoulder. I grieve your loss. Look north - there, your friends - your brothers.

[Maxie Herrington]

Oyster, thanks for the sentiment. Max.

[Maxie Herrington]

Further to RGM. Hi. Believe it or not - no hog. Her keel from sternpost to beginning of the stem is only about 13 feet. Thank goodness for Pentox.

Also - not using bungs. Going to sister her frames - countersink and fill with seam compound. Then remove the old frames and fill those holes as well. Appreciate your input. Max.

[Maxie Herrington]

This for Conrad. Thanks for your post, Conrad. I stayed in St. Johnsbury VT one evening in November 1962, on my way home from Toronto. Beautiful, beautiful State you have there. Come this way, sometime, and see us. The, "OH YES" should be in our backyard soon. Along with the Acadia, 5hp one lunger make and break engine - fully restored. Max.

[WWheeler]

Maxie:

For all the neighbourliness in the last year we've had s*** from Dubya. We gave safe haven to thousands of people who were stranded when NA airspace was closed. Not we wanted anything in return, just being good neighbours.

However, we didn't any thanks in his address to Congress last fall. (If I remember correctly, even Saudi Arabia got thanked!) We've gotten the shaft on trade disputes such as farm subsidies and forestry duties. Now he wants to support for his excellent adventure into Iraq.

Maybe resentment of Washington is something else we can share with our cousins to the south.

PS Excuse the rant. It belong in Misc., but I couldn't let this pass.

[ 09-10-2002, 02:15 PM: Message edited by: WWheeler ]