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ishmael
10-01-2009, 06:59 AM
The months recently turned, and it's coming up on All Hallowed Eve. Discussion of proof of life after death, and the time of year, got me thinking. Are hauntings, which I've only experienced once, proof of life after death?

I've told it before, but briefly, mates and I were out being typical teens and pulled into a graveyard. Just skylarking, but it was a dark and stormy night, the night before Memorial Day. We were all freshly home from our freshman year at college. We pile out, take a piss, wander about a bit, being generally disrespectful. Steve comes running up and says, "We've gotta get out of here." "Why, what's going on?" "There's a huge black dog that came after me."

Okay, let's go. Only problem, the car wouldn't start. As I'm remembering the story gets longer, but after seeking help afoot that was refused, we make it back to the graveyard and the dead car. It starts right up. As we're high tailing it out of there, what I can only describe as a loud chorus of laughter rises. Mind you, we were in the sticks, the middle of nowhere, there were no houses about, dead to rights sober, and we all heard it.
rove that or argument. This is a ghost story thread.

Uncle Duke
10-01-2009, 07:20 AM
All Hallowed Eve"All Hallows' Eve". Not Hallowed.
"Eve" is a contraction for "evening" - this "holiday" falls on the evening of "All Hallows' Day", sometimes known as "All Saints' Day". Remember: in ages past a "day" was considered to start at dusk, so "All Saints' Day" (Nov 1st) was considered to be part of the day which started the evening before.

That laughter? That was me and some older kids...:D

Popeye
10-01-2009, 07:26 AM
i think the classic example of a 'spirit' , .. 'ghost' , is often daunting , overblown , coming directly from media and western culture .. a kind sentimentality marketed , or a characterization found in a horror flick

it's not like that

spirits are quiet and unassuming , why wouldn't they be ?

skuthorp
10-01-2009, 08:13 AM
Considering the celebration is, like so many 'christian' events, pagan in origin on the principle of 'if you can't beat 'em join 'em', I cannot see it's relevance. It was so they say a day to remember the dead, the ancestors

LeeG
10-01-2009, 08:20 AM
why does a unique experience prove anything?

skuthorp
10-01-2009, 08:22 AM
why does a unique experience prove anything?

Agree. I've had a couple of oddies too and they don't prove anything even to me.

Paul Pless
10-01-2009, 09:05 AM
Considering the celebration is, like so many 'christian' events, pagan in origin on the principle of 'if you can't beat 'em join 'em', I cannot see it's relevance. It was so they say a day to remember the dead, the ancestorssomebody always has to go there don't they:p

Popeye
10-01-2009, 09:15 AM
why does a unique experience prove anything?
it probably doesn't

what unique experience do you mean ?

obe's aren't unique , neither are ghostly thingies or spirituality , these are exceedingly common experiences

LeeG
10-01-2009, 09:42 AM
it probably doesn't

what unique experience do you mean ?

obe's aren't unique , neither are ghostly thingies or spirituality , these are exceedingly common experiences

In Jacks original post he says: " Are hauntings, which I've only experienced once, proof of life after death? "

Popeye
10-01-2009, 09:51 AM
but , leeg , jack is not alone in this , not by a long shot

the proof of the pudding is under the crust

BrianY
10-01-2009, 10:04 AM
obe's aren't unique , neither are ghostly thingies or spirituality , these are exceedingly common experiences

even so, they do not prove anything other than that people have these experiences. The cause of these experiences or what they mean remains a matter of speculation and faith.

LeeG
10-01-2009, 10:10 AM
but , leeg , jack is not alone in this , not by a long shot

the proof of the pudding is under the crust

the banana comes from a bunch

Popeye
10-01-2009, 10:16 AM
they do not prove anything other than that people have these experiences. The cause of these experiences or what they mean remains a matter of speculation and faith.

sure

unless of course one is willing to analyze the information carefully , thus removing speculation , bias and axiomatic thinking on the subject

Uncle Duke
10-01-2009, 10:22 AM
unless of course one is willing to analyze the information carefully , thus removing speculation , bias and axiomatic thinking on the subject
Which, of course, is nonsense.
Analysis does not remove speculation or bias or axiomatic thinking - proof does, at least for people who require proof.
For people who don't require proof, analysis does nothing.

TomF
10-01-2009, 10:23 AM
the banana comes from a bunchHow big a bunch does it have to be, and how many bunches must one go through, before it's safe to draw a conclusion about what bananas taste like?

I'm absolutely aware that the problem with anecdotal evidence is that, well, it's "anecdotal." I can dismiss or question a small number of occurrences, but one does reach a tipping point eventually.

LeeG
10-01-2009, 10:26 AM
and who thought up bananas flambe?

Domesticated_Mr. Know It All
10-01-2009, 10:29 AM
I once bought a 1968 Olds 98 from a local funeral home.
Not a hearse,more of a limo, but the car was used to transport family to the cemetery. You could just feel the "misery" when you got inside that car. I had 3 or 4 people refuse to ride in that car and they didn't even know where it came from at the time. They just said the car gave them the creeps. I never had anything super natural happen but a number of people commented that the car had bad vibes. I can't explain it either.

Tom Montgomery
10-01-2009, 10:37 AM
I enjoy all the pagan festivals.

BrianY
10-01-2009, 11:37 AM
I'm absolutely aware that the problem with anecdotal evidence is that, well, it's "anecdotal." I can dismiss or question a small number of occurrences, but one does reach a tipping point eventually.

The question is not whether people have experienced something. Anecdotal evidence tells us that they have.

The question is one of causation - what caused these people to have these experiences? Did they really see ghosts or was it something else? Maybe they weren't ghosts but they were space aliens. Or perhaps they were hallucinations caused by secret government drug experiments on unwitting citizens.

Anecdotal evidence tells us nothing about the cause of the phenonmena. That some people choose to say that what they saw was a ghost - a sprit of a dead person - is speculation, not proof.

Now, some folks argue that is enough people have the same experiences and they all agree on the cause of these experiences, then that constitutes "proof", but at least in terms of logic, it's not so. Mere popularity of an assertion does not make that assertion factully "true" - if this was not the case, the world would have really been flat for much of human history, right?

LeeG
10-01-2009, 11:42 AM
a couple months ago I was riding my bicycle at night down a long hill and through a flat section of land where the road divided a forest.

I saw something flying in the trees and it made me anxious.

That's gotta prove something.

Popeye
10-01-2009, 11:54 AM
Analysis does not remove speculation or bias or axiomatic thinking - proof does

presenting a proof , drawing conclusions, without data analysis is a startling new concept

tell me more

Popeye
10-01-2009, 11:57 AM
some folks argue that is enough people have the same experiences and they all agree on the cause of these experiences, then that constitutes "proof",

this is not an argument at all

not even close , sorry

Popeye
10-01-2009, 12:02 PM
a couple months ago I was riding my bicycle at night down a long hill and through a flat section of land where the road divided a forest.

I saw something flying in the trees and it made me anxious.

That's gotta prove something.

sometimes i'm in a big hurry and end up speeding in my car

but you can't very well ticket someone for being in a hurry , now can you

i wish those dumb law makers would make up their freak'n minds

LeeG
10-01-2009, 12:09 PM
I just had a sandwich made with lox and spinach dip.

Popeye
10-01-2009, 12:11 PM
i try to avoid corn

ishmael
10-01-2009, 12:16 PM
No good ghost stories? There have to be a few. The closest you've come is Kevin's creepy car. Come on, loosen your cummerbunds.

I don't know what happened that night, but I know it was outside my parameter of "normal." It didn't feel malevolent at all, though at the time it was a bit of a bother. It felt like a practical joke. I'd write it off to youthful imagination, except that all three of us experienced essentially the same thing.

That graveyard, BTW, I learned years on, has a reputation.

LeeG
10-01-2009, 12:25 PM
Meatloaf was on Ghost Hunters last night

Popeye
10-01-2009, 12:28 PM
standing in a cemetery just last weekend , i was looking around for a particular headstone but i didn't spot it straight away , so i idled around a bit , when a curious thought popped into my head .., i will ask ..

i said , inside .. " where are you"

i got an answer

i turned and walked about fifteen feet , then to the left and looked down , i still didn't see the headstone

so i looked again ...and there he was , sharing a common marker with two others , 'oh' , i said

weird

Syed
10-01-2009, 12:33 PM
Meatloaf was on Ghost Hunters last night

Don't forget garlic in future.;)

BrianY
10-01-2009, 12:38 PM
this is not an argument at all

not even close , sorry

Yes it is.

Popeye
10-01-2009, 12:42 PM
um , no it is not


..some folks argue that is enough people have the same experiences and they all agree on the cause of these experiences, then that constitutes "proof" ..

BrianY
10-01-2009, 12:45 PM
um , no it is not

Ummm, yes it is. It's not a valid logical argument, but it is an argument.

One could also assert that it would be a better argument if the typo "is" was fixed so that it read "if", but that really wouldn't change the argument's validity.

Hughman
10-01-2009, 12:47 PM
presenting a proof , drawing conclusions, without data analysis is a startling new concept

tell me more

data analysis resulting in consistently repeatable phenomena is the basis of proof

Popeye
10-01-2009, 12:51 PM
data analysis resulting in consistently repeatable phenomena is the basis of proof

ahhh .. the classics
:D

Popeye
10-01-2009, 12:54 PM
it is an argument..


It's not a valid logical argument..


but it is an argument..

i think we're done

BrianY
10-01-2009, 01:05 PM
i think we're done

No we're not.

BrianY
10-01-2009, 01:11 PM
spirits are quiet and unassuming

Not the ones I've encountered


why wouldn't they be ?

why would they be?