advice on jatoba / laminating a backbone?

[mark ward]

After tracing through the old postings on the topic and opting against full timbers due to availability, I'm preparing to laminate a backbone from stern to stem (+/- 31'), built up of 3/4" boards to a moulded dimension of 3". I'm in Portland, Oregon. I've got several species options that I'm looking for advice on(In time I will construct the deadwood of the same species BTW):

The white oak that is readily available in the area is of the west coast variety, and I've heard several not so great statements regarding it's rot resistance. I'm steering away from the white oak because of it's gluing difficulties, unless I hear otherwise from you folks.

For 60 cents/bf more I can get ahold of a pretty nice source of purpleheart, that is at the time, my number one choice, because of it's durability, weight, and claimed gluing quality.

However, a while back, I heard someone mention that jatoba was an excellent species for backbone and deadwood construction, but I don't know much about it. I can get it for slightly less than the purpleheart, but not as cheap as the white oak, if that makes a difference.

Any advice concerning these species would be much appreciated.

I can't wait to post photos of the process.

[Thaddeus J. Van Gilder]

Purple heart works very well as a back bone timber, and I have never had problems laminating it with resoursonal, but I have had issues with epoxy.

If you are out there, why not use a chunk of tight grained doug fir?

[dale o]

I just installed 200 square feet of Jatoba plank flooring in my kitchen. I have enough left over for some trim and other uses. Its sold as "Brazilian Cherry". I got mine thru rare-earth-hardwoods. It is a very heavy, dense wood. Deep reddish in color. It reportedly is the hardest wood availiable for flooring. It's so hard (drum roll),..... its so hard you have to pre drill every nail hole. If you dont, the nail binds and bends. The best self-tapping countersinking screws won't work without pre drilling. It wears out non-carbide tipped tools immediately. You can miss the nail head with the hammer and not dent it. Its listed as a marine hardwood on their website. I'm considering using it for floorboards, rub rail, seats, etc. Also it looks like a good wood to use for home made blocks and cleats. At $4 a board foot, it's just slightly more expensive than oak, and about half the cost of clear doug fir. I'm going to use some on my "gannet" construction. (As a kitchen floor, oiled up with hardwax oil, it's stunning!)
best wishes.

[Meerkat]

Dale O, that sounds a lot like another wood: Ipe (eepay) that I'm considering for a keel. My concern is to how bendable it is to follow the curve of the keel...

Are you referring to the Iron Woods site?

[CyberRebel]

meerkat:

I've heard ALOT of bad stuff about gluing Ipe. Some woodworkers say it's impossible. Be careful, and do some research before investing in Ipe, dude.

[dale o]

No, Meercat it's not ipe. But it is an oily hardwood. It needs the surface sanded and the excess oil removed with thinner before gluing. The outfit I bought it from is at www.rare-earth-hardwoods.com. (http://www.rare-earth-hardwoods.com.) They list it as both flooring and rough stock. You can find out a lot about jatoba by searching on www.google.com (http://www.google.com) for jatoba. I've only glued up a few pieces, so I can't vouch for its suitability for a glued up keel. But strips of hit would certainly be tough. After working with the milled flooring, I can see that it would be difficult to do many cutting and forming operations with it as you would do with softer woods. Most sites that deal in hardwood flooring also list jatoba. Like I said, it's probably going to be real good for cleats and blocks.
Mark, since you're in Oregon, I would consider using clear straight grained douglas fir. There is reclaimed and recycled doug fir availiable. It's resawn from timbers and flooring in the Seattle area.
Best wishes.

[ 09-26-2002, 01:03 AM: Message edited by: dale o ]

[Dave Hadfield]

Well it's as hard as a rock and doesn't rot. That I know from having also laid a hardwood floor of it, and using the pieces for various things.

The only thing I've glued with it was some laminated blocks. These didn't work so well. I had some delaminations. The glue used was a polyurethane, the kind that needs a bit of moisture to cure. I did indeed moisten the pieces before assembly, but the glue failed anyway. I blamed it on temperamental glue, but maybe it was the jotoba.

Experiment and let us know, please.

[Hazy Chris]

Thaddeus,
I'm thinking of resourcinol laminated purpleheart for some backbone/deadwood that will stay in the water, but most of what I find is kiln dried. (occasionally air dried)
Have you had any expansion problems with what you have used? Or do you have a source of green material? Thanks, Chris

[mark ward]

Well the assumption was that I'd be heading down the same road, laminating the purpleheart. I think because of the hardness of the jatoba, that's out ofthe question because of the rabbit that I'm already scared as hell of doing. But to be honest with you, these are the first mentionings I heard of using Doug fir. Did I miss the memo? What are it's stregth, durability, and rot resistance qualities in relation to w. oak or purpleheart?

thanks for all your help...

m

[Meerkat]

As of last Friday - 9/20/2002, Fir was 2x the price of Purpleheart or Meranti at Edensaw in Pt. Townsend. New lumber is coming from Canada and there's a 27.5% punitive tariff in effect.

honduras - 4/4 $5.11 bd/ft FAS $5.66/bd ft > 16' lengths
Alaska Yellow Ceder $8.40 bd. ft.
Fir $7.31 bd./ft.
Western Red $7.08 bd./ft.
Meranti timber $3.50 bd. ft.
Ipe 1"x4" $2.10 lineal ft.
Purpleheart $3.54 bd. ft.
Afrimosa
Jatoba (Braz. cherry) $4.15 bd. ft.
teak $12 bd. ft. est: 1/4" x 1 3/4" $5 linear ft.
iroko 1" x 1" $4.69 bd./ft.