Splining saw

[RFNK]

I'm going to be replacing a whole lot of splines on my Twister restoration project. I'll need a splining saw blade. I have a 7 1/4" circular saw but I could use a smaller tiling saw or something like that if I can get the right blade for it. I'll probably have to get a blade made or a scribing blade adapted or something like that unless I can buy a ready made splining saw blade. The blade will need to cut a tapered trench about 3/4" (20mm) deep or a little less, with the top of the trench being around 1/4" (7mm) wide and the bottom about 1/8". It doesn't matter whether the trench can be formed from a single cut or two. Does anyone know where such a blade may be obtained or can anyone recommend a manufacturer who could make the blade? Rick

[peter radclyffe]

do you have the wolfcraft accesories near you

[PeterSibley]

Most decent saw shops would weld carbide tips to your blade or a blank and grind them to your required profile .Just draw an accurate diagram .It wouldn't even be very expensive ....the less teeth the better for obvious reasons !

[RFNK]

do you have the wolfcraft accesories near you


I haven't seen this range in Australia. Is there something suitable?




Most decent saw shops would weld carbide tips to your blade or a blank and grind them to your required profile .Just draw an accurate diagram .It wouldn't even be very expensive ....the less teeth the better for obvious reasons


Peter, this is probably what I'll have to do. I'll probably just get the blade with the lowest number of teeth and have new tips welded on. There's a guy in Raymond Terrace that I'm pretty sure will be able to do it. It's a wonder that these blades aren't more readily available though. Splining was a reasonably common building technique until glued strip planking and cold moulding took over, I think.

Thanks! Rick

[peter radclyffe]

i have used a small blade 4 inch , you might also find a steel milling blade in an engineering supplies, & fit it to a small angle grinder,
or a chainsaw toothed wheel blade, ground to suit,
then fasten a piece of ply to the guard as a base
if you use a small circular saw, you could fasten a bolt or lug thru the base plate to act as a follower, which will help the biggest problem, which is to keep it in line

[RFNK]

if you use a small circular saw, you could fasten a bolt or lug thru the base plate to act as a follower, which will help the biggest problem, which is to keep it in line


That is such a good idea! In cutting out planking recently I had the problem of coming away from the batten I was using from time to time. Why didn't I think of this? Thanks Peter! Rick

[John B]

Any sawdocter will add teeth to your dimension specs onto a suitable donor blade. I have a couple for my grinder.. I seem to recall they were scoring blades from a table saw. back in the days when you had such things.
The other tool is a biscuit jointer. Thats basically a grinder with a saw blade, and depth and square control added. You'd have to tack a batten on for that though, or adapt a following guide like Peter says .

[Paul Fitzgerald]

I was going to suggest the biscuit jointer too. They are great for splining planks for furniture.

You will probably have to use some sort of batten as a guide for a circular saw anyway.

I recall seeing something about a guy who fitted two pins in the plate of a circular saw to do this sort of job on a boat.

The front one was the size of the existing plank gap, the back one the size of the spline cutout. It would take a brave man and a steady hand to try this job without a batten guide, but I think that is how it is done.

I have an old Emco combination machine (Emcostar) which has two central saw washers which meet at an angle to set up a controlled blade wobble, so you can cut grooves of varying width with a standard saw blade. There might be something like that around in the specialist woodwork sites.

.

[marcin]

Any sawdocter will add teeth to your dimension specs onto a suitable donor blade. I have a couple for my grinder.. I seem to recall they were scoring blades from a table saw. back in the days when you had such things.
The other tool is a biscuit jointer. Thats basically a grinder with a saw blade, and depth and square control added. You'd have to tack a batten on for that though, or adapt a following guide like Peter says .

See the thread http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=88325&page=16

Kerry shows off his "leeetle fwieend". Towards the bottom of the thread, I showed him my answers to his friend. And you can set up a biscuit joiner for a pre-set depth of cut and to follow the edge of a plank. I don't think you need to set up a batten as a guide.

[Timo_N62.9_E27.7]

I have an old Emco combination machine (Emcostar) which has two central saw washers which meet at an angle to set up a controlled blade wobble, so you can cut grooves of varying width with a standard saw blade. There might be something like that around in the specialist woodwork sites.

Isn´t that a wonderful tool! I have the same also including the Emcostar planer. I think it is the best there is if you don´t need to work with very big timber.

I think the wobbling blade is the only way to do it with a circular saw. Having a blade with shaped bits (wider towards the circumphere) will only produce a wider but still square groove. The wide edge of the bit will cut al the way from the surface to the bottom of the groove at some part of the circle.

[Paul Fitzgerald]

The story goes the first one was built by the Emco staff as a retirement present for the owner, who was an amateur boatbuilder.
He used it to finish his retirement boat.
It was such a success they made it a production model.

I bought mine new 30 years ago, still my main woodworking tool.

[RFNK]

I think the wobbling blade is the only way to do it with a circular saw. Having a blade with shaped bits (wider towards the circumphere) will only produce a wider but still square groove. The wide edge of the bit will cut al the way from the surface to the bottom of the groove at some part of the circle.


Except it's the other way around. The splining groove is tapered with the wider part on the top of the groove - it's not a dovetail trench. If the saw has teeth that are thin at the outer edge and wider towards the centre, then the trench/groove will be tapered. Rick

[Timo_N62.9_E27.7]

OK, see what you mean. I got you wrong and the comment about the wobbling blade "confirmed" my misconception :D

[RFNK]

I have a Durden Jnr combination saw that I inherited from my father. My father had all kinds of attachments for it, including the wobbling saw arrangement. I haven't used it but I'm sure there'll be a time. I'm not familiar with Emco at all but I'd guess the Durden might be similar. Rick

[john welsford]

This is not an easy job to get right, and you can destroy a lot of expensive timber doing it. Can I suggest that you find a small joinery or cabinetmaking shop and talk to them about using their spindle moulder ( shaper in American parlance) . They may well have a grooving saw used for splining big table tops etc. as part of their tooling set, if not, the smaller spindle moulders often have the ability to run a half inch shank router bit and this is what I use for that kind of work rather than a sawblade.
Better finish, more accurate, and less damage. Cheaper in the long run.

John Welsford


I'm going to be replacing a whole lot of splines on my Twister restoration project. I'll need a splining saw blade. I have a 7 1/4" circular saw but I could use a smaller tiling saw or something like that if I can get the right blade for it. I'll probably have to get a blade made or a scribing blade adapted or something like that unless I can buy a ready made splining saw blade. The blade will need to cut a tapered trench about 3/4" (20mm) deep or a little less, with the top of the trench being around 1/4" (7mm) wide and the bottom about 1/8". It doesn't matter whether the trench can be formed from a single cut or two. Does anyone know where such a blade may be obtained or can anyone recommend a manufacturer who could make the blade? Rick

[john welsford]

Rick, if you do go for a circular saw blade, you only need about 4 teeth on that blade, your feed speed will be so low that any more just burns up power and makes black marks in the work, also costs more to make.

The theoretical advance per tooth needs to be about 0.2mm per tooth per rev to cut properly so you can see if you are pushing a 3000 rpm blade ( for example) with say 12 teeth on you'd have a blade set up for 7.2 metres a minute feed speed, a bit fast in these circumstances. So 3 or 4 teeth even at 1800 rpm is fine.

John Welsford


I haven't seen this range in Australia. Is there something suitable?



Peter, this is probably what I'll have to do. I'll probably just get the blade with the lowest number of teeth and have new tips welded on. There's a guy in Raymond Terrace that I'm pretty sure will be able to do it. It's a wonder that these blades aren't more readily available though. Splining was a reasonably common building technique until glued strip planking and cold moulding took over, I think.

Thanks! Rick

[RFNK]

Thanks John, great to have your advice. I've considered using a router too. It's not possible to say just yet how much splining I'll have to do but I think it's going to be quite a lot. If I use a router, I'll probably do it i two passes (sort of thing). Run the saw along to make a groove and then shape it with the router, using Peter's guide suggestion in each case. Rick

[Paul Fitzgerald]

I have a Durden Jnr combination saw that I inherited from my father. My father had all kinds of attachments for it, including the wobbling saw arrangement. I haven't used it but I'm sure there'll be a time. I'm not familiar with Emco at all but I'd guess the Durden might be similar. Rick

Its a bit different than the Durden.

http://www.dbcourt.co.uk/woodwork/Emco%20Star.html

The wood working technique is also a bit more of a cut and sand routine. The disc and belt sanders let you sand to the cutting line, the saw fence is not really accurate enough for fine work.

I cut to shape and sand to the line. Its efficient but not clean.

[Timo_N62.9_E27.7]

The story goes the first one was built by the Emco staff as a retirement present for the owner, who was an amateur boatbuilder.
He used it to finish his retirement boat.
It was such a success they made it a production model.

I bought mine new 30 years ago, still my main woodworking tool.

Interesting story about the origins, I hadn´t heard that before.

Mine is 40 years old, originally bought by my father when I was a teenager. And finally going to be used in boatbuilding when I get started in a few weeks time :D

[RFNK]

Its a bit different than the Durden.


It certainly is! The Durden Jnr is a conventional table saw with a planer and thicknesser attachment, among other things. The Emco looks more like a bandsaw. I've never seen anything quite like it. Rick

[Timo_N62.9_E27.7]

The Emcostar is a band saw and when you flip it 90 degrees it is a table saw. Plus a band sander and a disc sander.

As an attachment you can add Emcorex that is a planer and a thicknesser.