PDA

View Full Version : The Psychology of Constant Retreat.



Milo Christensen
09-10-2009, 07:43 AM
There seems to be some parallels between the American Democratic Party's agenda to radicalize America and the rise and fall of Nazi Germany before and during WW2.

Both were embarassed by stinging defeats. Both had years to plan and organize their comeback. Their comebacks were (in their eyes) glorious, the initial victories stunning.

But their opponents, stunned, reeling, having underestimated the power of the initial attacks, saw the need to mobilize overwhelming force against the clearly perceived evils of both regimes.

Slowly, but with increasing speed, as the need to stop the spread of evil became more urgent, the overwhelming force was gathered and launched against the regimes.

And slowly, slowly, the momentum built. The long retreats began. The closer the advancing forces of good got to the central sources of power, the more desperate the resistance became.

But the long retreats, on front after front after front had had their psychological toll. Defeat was inevitable, but the consequences of defeat were worse than continuing the fight. The retreats continued, the fight ever more desperate, until, at last the central bastions were surrounded and crushed.

Obama's speech last night was the equivalent of the Nazi's Battle of the Bulge. One last desperate attempt to expend any remaining effective political or military capital against the inevitable.

But the psychology of constant retreat over the last few months has set in, to continue is to lose, to surrender is to lose, so continue they must.

Joe (SoCal)
09-10-2009, 07:46 AM
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c350/mudhutwarrior/ObamaBerlinVictoryColumn.jpg:rolleyes:


You and Tylerturd need to get a room :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Domesticated_Mr. Know It All
09-10-2009, 07:54 AM
The spread of evil?
Is that really the way you see it Milo?
Get a grip dude.

Pugwash
09-10-2009, 07:54 AM
http://www.seblester.co.uk/core/assets/gallery/illustrations/photos/Arse.jpg

Nicholas Scheuer
09-10-2009, 07:58 AM
"Radicalize"?

Wrong "R" word, Milo.

More like just undoing all the "REAGANOMICS" he can, as soon as he can, for as long as he can.

If you want to perform a useful service for the USA, why don't you do something constructive about Detroit.

Moby Nick

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
09-10-2009, 07:59 AM
It grieves me to say it, but the perennial retreat has its theme tune


Here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8LyS86p16M)

stevebaby
09-10-2009, 08:14 AM
Fortunately, 52% of American voters have shown that they are NOT as mad as a bucket of frogs.

stevebaby
09-10-2009, 08:16 AM
It grieves me to say it, but the perennial retreat has its theme tune


Here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8LyS86p16M):D:D:D

huisjen
09-10-2009, 08:26 AM
Time to put your shrink on danger pay.

Dan

TomF
09-10-2009, 08:29 AM
Milo,

What gives? You're for health insurance reform, as you've said in the past. IIRC, you said you'd support a single payer option, and are opposing Obama's efforts in part because that's been jettisoned. Jettisoned in the hope of building bridges with Republicans, actually.

I assume that you're for health insurance reform because, true to form, you don't want people to end up bankrupted by medical fees, or to die from treatable conditions because they couldn't afford care. Those are Obama's concerns too, and promoting them isn't the "spread of evil."

Presumably, what you think is "evil" is the possible funding mechanism. Fine and good - it's time to propose something else, which will in fact achieve your goals of extended coverage ... and be acceptable to Republicans.

What do I think is "evil" here? I think the obstructionism to meaningful reform is evil both in intent, and in means.

The Reps' stated goal is to make Obama fail. It truly wouldn't matter what the legislative proposal finally looked like ... the Reps will try to kill it in order to capitalize on an Obama legislative failure in the mid-term and 2012 elections.
The insurance companies' goal is to keep their goose laying golden eggs. Meaningful reform - including a public option - will severely impact their profitability and market share.
Disinformation and slander - like the "death panel" allegations - are an evil manipulation of low-information voters. Whoever uses such strategies in domestic politics is subverting the very foundational premises of democracy. Is becoming an enemy of democracy, which after all functions best with a well informed and engaged electorate.

Tom Montgomery
09-10-2009, 08:30 AM
Stand up. Back away from your computer. Go outside. Take a walk and get reaquainted with reality.

JimD
09-10-2009, 08:34 AM
Milo, that's so silly I'm sorry I wasted 20 seconds of my life reading it.

Ian McColgin
09-10-2009, 08:35 AM
Just in case the Right is interested in historical precedents, the rise of fascism in Europe probably had more to do with the global depression than WWI. Italy and Spain experienced fascism despite being on the winning side of WWI. But like Germany, the fascists exploited the need to blame problems on some undesirable minorities, both ethnic and political, and to galvanize the discontent of the middle classes in the service of capital.

But if any movement arises from denial and inability to deal with military defeat, it's the right - as happened in Germany after WWI and in the USA quite radically since our defeat in Vietnam.

The combination of denial of defeat and blaming that denied defeat on a class of traitors within is a right wing habit. The left has other scapegoats.

Keith Wilson
09-10-2009, 08:37 AM
There seems to be some parallels between the American Democratic Party's agenda to radicalize America and the rise and fall of Nazi Germany before and during WW2.First, if you really think the Democratic party is attempting to "radicalize America", you have demonstrated that you either have no idea what the word "radical" means, or wouldn't recognize genuine radicalism if it came up and bit you on the leg. What the Democrats have been proposing lately are small, incremental shifts; one could criticize them for timidity rather than radicalism.

And the comparisons with the Nazis are patently absurd. We are less than one year into the Obama administration, and "inevitable defeat" is a figment of your fevered imagination.

Milo, I really don't understand it. You are no kind of fool; why do you do this? Every now and then you write something so disconnected from reality that I wonder if someone else has logged in using your name.

pefjr
09-10-2009, 08:41 AM
Milo, haven't you caught enough fish this week? We are going to have to put a limit on you. We would like to have a few fish over on some other threads.

John of Phoenix
09-10-2009, 09:03 AM
"YOU LIE!!"

That's radicalism. That's the desperation of constant, grinding your face in the dirt defeat.

So is, "There seems to be some parallels between the American Democratic Party's agenda to radicalize America and the rise and fall of Nazi Germany before and during WW2."

Paul Pless
09-10-2009, 09:07 AM
Milo... initial post followed by almost immediate logout... genius!:D

John of Phoenix
09-10-2009, 09:13 AM
Must have seen me log on. :D

"Hi Mrs. Christiansen, can Milo come out and play?"

skuthorp
09-10-2009, 09:13 AM
They hate him because he's there, to quote myself.
I think the more extreme GOP supporters are bothered still by the way GW came to power in the first place. And that fuels their hysteria In a 'third world' country the election would have been declared dodgy, and the court bent or bought.

pefjr
09-10-2009, 09:26 AM
They hate him because he's there, to quote myself.
I think the more extreme GOP supporters are bothered still by the way GW came to power in the first place. And that fuels their hysteria In a 'third world' country the election would have been declared dodgy, and the court bent or bought. You are another victim of the faulty aussie press or the liberallie propaganda campaign. Maybe it was the calling in of Hurricane Katrina, huh?

LeeG
09-10-2009, 09:54 AM
Milo, I honestly don't understand what you're talking about. Who's in retreat?

Chris Coose
09-10-2009, 10:04 AM
But the psychology of constant retreat over the last few months has set in, to continue is to lose, to surrender is to lose, so continue they must.

That non-verbal Obama swung over to Wilson was no indication of submission.

You are extending a lie built on a lie in hopes of feeling better.

skuthorp
09-10-2009, 10:15 AM
You are another victim of the faulty aussie press or the liberallie propaganda campaign. Maybe it was the calling in of Hurricane Katrina, huh?

No mate, everyone else in the world smelt the stink. But it is a measure of the strength of your democracy that the ruling was accepted and government functioned and the people got on wit their lives till the next, and then the next election put in the Dems.
One hopes that in spite of the bile being spat along with the dummy the same strength will prevail.

Osborne Russell
09-10-2009, 10:18 AM
But the psychology of constant retreat over the last few months has set in, to continue is to lose, to surrender is to lose, so continue they must.

I don't get it. You can keep fighting, or surrender; either way it's the "psychology of constant retreat"? What are the essential points of this psychology? Retreat is a fact. The psychology is the same, regardless of the facts? Hm.

The essential point of pseudo-secular American exceptionalism is to try to perpetuate the warm fuzzy feeling of American WW2 propaganda. Like the Chimp's self-image as the new Churchill. The good fight, global crusade, greatest generation, etc. Regardless of the facts, in defiance of the continuing flow of change.

In mild cases, intellectual dishonesty. In severe cases, paranoid psychosis. Good thing they have guns, for lo they are beset by the unrighteous.

Tom Montgomery
09-10-2009, 11:05 AM
Milo... initial post followed by almost immediate logout... genius!:D


Or epiphany. I hope for his sake he is outside taking a walk.

pefjr
09-10-2009, 11:18 AM
No mate, everyone else in the world smelt the stink. But it is a measure of the strength of your democracy that the ruling was accepted and government functioned and the people got on wit their lives till the next, and then the next election put in the Dems.
One hopes that in spite of the bile being spat along with the dummy the same strength will prevail.

What you smell is liberallie lies of the left. It has a burnt and well used scent. And a Hillary revival scent(a weak attempt but a strong rotten smell). The DNC was not punished so did not learn a lesson. And the gullibility of the weak-minded succumbed to the propaganda. Judging from Cap't Blight's discovery of a dropping congressional approval rating a front will soon arrive and freshen the air. This will certainly dampen your hopes, but also encourage truth.

sailboy3
09-10-2009, 11:47 AM
health reform = world domination?
where'd you get that one

sailboy3
09-10-2009, 11:48 AM
health reform = world domination?
where'd yo get that one?

Milo Christensen
09-10-2009, 12:00 PM
Stimulus = Attack on Moscow. Rapid advance into a position that proves to be indefensible, long, bitter retreat (at the polls, 2010).

Cap and Trade = The attack on Stalingrad, overwhelming force brought to a screeching halt, another long, bitter retreat.

Health Reform = The long bitter retreat from France, from Poland, from Austria, multiple front retreat.

JimD
09-10-2009, 12:03 PM
Milo... initial post followed by almost immediate logout... genius!:D

He had to go try out the new silencer on the neighbour's cat.

Tom Montgomery
09-10-2009, 12:05 PM
When did the Second World War become the preferred political/socio-economic analogy rather than the decline of the Roman empire?

John of Phoenix
09-10-2009, 12:05 PM
What's wrong with you Milo?

Moscow, Stalingrad, France, Poland... you've never even seen the business end of a bullet and you make INSANE comparisons using millions of dead rotten bodies.

Get some help. Seriously.

Bruce Hooke
09-10-2009, 12:13 PM
Stimulus = Attack on Moscow. Rapid advance into a position that proves to be indefensible, long, bitter retreat (at the polls, 2010).

Cap and Trade = The attack on Stalingrad, overwhelming force brought to a screeching halt, another long, bitter retreat.

Health Reform = The long bitter retreat from France, from Poland, from Austria, multiple front retreat.

If that then this:

Apple = Pumpkin

Keith Wilson
09-10-2009, 12:15 PM
Chalk = Cheese
Ignorance = Strength

sailboy3
09-10-2009, 12:21 PM
He had to go try out the new silencer on the neighbour's cat.

:D:D:D

Paul Pless
09-10-2009, 12:26 PM
Chalk = Cheese
Ignorance = Strengthyou sir have been spending wayyyyy too much time on the scrabble thread

LeeG
09-10-2009, 12:27 PM
When did the Second World War become the preferred political/socio-economic analogy rather than the decline of the Roman empire?

when the chicken hawks played word games justifying invasion of Iraq. I'm halfway through Rumsfelds biography. One of the powerful tactics for winning ideological wars where the battle ground is political power and not actual blood and treasure involves redefining reality for a prefered vision. Rumsfeld used that tactic under the guise of getting people to look at a situation in his terms. It works very well with less intelligent people as you can effectively taint meaning with association and not definition.
The only problem is that they used that tactic in real war outside of our political battlefield. oops, the savage foreigners didn't get the memos.

Aggressive hegemonic war is redefined as liberation.
Specific weapons are redefined in vague terms with three letters.
Specific people are redefined with general terms and groupings so they can be treated as "unlawful combatants" and exempt from agreed treatment that developed over TWO WORLD WARS.

During the run-up to invading Iraq all manner of analysis from experts on Iraq and the middle east was dismissed by calling a hegemonic war of agression a liberation, "just like France was liberated in WW2".

LeeG
09-10-2009, 12:28 PM
If that then this:

Apple = Pumpkin

apple = fish

John of Phoenix
09-10-2009, 12:33 PM
Two Russian infantrymen frozen to death in their foxhole.
http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/c7b46caa9b478a10_landing

Body of a dead Russian soldier lying on the battlefield is covered with lye to hasten decomposition.
http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/cb41e86bcd84af69_landing

Russian girl & her grandmother lying dead on the street, killed in German air raid on their city.
http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/9ad2a6c47023c49f_landing

That doesn't scratch the surface. Millions dead.

You want to see what the Nazis/Democrats did to the French? Poles? Americans? JEWS??

You're pathetic.

oznabrag
09-10-2009, 12:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Hooke http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2315532#post2315532)
If that then this:

Apple = Pumpkin

apple = fish

Then Apple=Pumpkin, no?

Paul Pless
09-10-2009, 12:40 PM
What's wrong with you Milo?It is kinda unusual to see Godwin's law exercised in the very first post of a thread.

LeeG
09-10-2009, 12:41 PM
That's what I mean John. It's the same tactic of the "pro-life" movement that equates abortion with murder. The people using this rhetoric aren't involved in the actual battlefield. Whether it's pushing for better healthcare or caring for actual people. It's a word game that cultivates a disconnect from reality. Like Jack getting so upset about being lied to about "wmd", then getting over it. Like Milo starting off with allusions to nazism, not even waiting for that slippery slope.

Unfortunately it only takes the fringe to elevate delusional rhetoric to accepted discourse. Palins death panels or McCains joke about nuking Iran during a presidential campaign being one example.

John of Phoenix
09-10-2009, 12:42 PM
Apple = Pumpkin
Apple = Fish
QED
Fish = Pumpkin
QED
Sureal = republicans


The people using this rhetoric aren't involved in the actual battlefield.
They aren't involved with reality.
--------------

It is kinda unusual to see Godwin's law exercised in the very first post of a thread.Really, it preempts logic. I shouldn't waste my time but stupidity of that quality is just impossible to ignore. Oh, well.

LeeG
09-10-2009, 12:46 PM
time for the Bassomatic

http://www.nbc.com/Saturday_Night_Live/video/clips/bassomatic/229056/

LeeG
09-10-2009, 12:53 PM
Apple = Pumpkin
Apple = Fish
QED
Fish = Pumpkin
QED
Sureal = republicans


They aren't involved with reality.
--------------
Really, it preempts logic. I shouldn't waste my time but stupidity of that quality is just impossible to ignore. Oh, well.


It'll blow your mind reading more details about Rumsfelds last time as Sec.Def. Reality was supposed to bend to stronger wills and smarter intellects and all it did was result in bigger errors.

John of Phoenix
09-10-2009, 01:17 PM
Lee:
Reality was supposed to bend to stronger wills and smarter intellects and all it did was result in bigger errors.
Who gets credit for, "We create our own reality." rove or rummy?

George Jung
09-10-2009, 01:29 PM
Remarkable thread!

ishmael
09-10-2009, 01:31 PM
Well, that comparison has been pretty well shot to pieces. Any equivalence made between US and European politics is like a sieve, it doesn't hold water. Not to say the same human motivations don't move all of us at times, but I can't see this country, my dear native land, succumbing to the same pressures that drove Europe for a millennium. We're too damn obstreperous for a Hitler or a Stalin, and people moved here to get away from their ilk.

That said, if there was a prolonged economic downturn strange things could happen.

LeeG
09-10-2009, 01:32 PM
Who gets credit for, "We create our own reality." rove or rummy?

the actual quotation is something Suskind paraphrased interviewing a Bush Whitehouse employee. I forget the person. It's perfectly reasonable for a person to persuade with rhetoric and propaganda but it's the institutionalization of propaganda that coincides with self-deception that gets me.

LeeG
09-10-2009, 01:34 PM
Remarkable thread!

can you imagine some stoned SNL actors on the floor as Akroyd osterizes the fish?

Uncle Duke
09-10-2009, 01:39 PM
George Jung:

Remarkable thread!Milo gets points for a great troll!
:D:D:D

paladin
09-10-2009, 03:14 PM
You wanna see DEAD, Milo? Thousands, hundreds of thousands......I have...with the same mark on each, mostly a single bullet in the head.
After WWII the Russians under Stalin started rounding up Jewish Partisans, a thousand at a time, made them dig their own graves in Ukraine. The cost of bullets was staggering and then they resorted to bayonets. Stalin was afraid of them after what happened during the war. You may think the holocaust ended with Hitler...it really just started. I'm outta here.