Carbon Monoxide

[WillW]

Carbon monoxide is a boating hazard that isn't much talked about. In comparison to pirates, explosions, hypothermia, etc., it's not very dramatic, but may be more common than realized.

Over the weekend we had to motor several times in extended stretches (~4 hours) and ended up experiencing carbon monoxide symptoms (headache, etc.). The boat is a 27' sloop with a Yanmar 1GM10 - I installed a dodger this year, which seems to excerbate the problem. The fumes seem to be collecting in the cockpit in conditions with light winds. (The only time I'd want to motor anyway.)

Besides removing the dodger, sitting on deck etc., any suggestions?

[willmarsh3]

Make sure you don't have a leak in your exhaust. Also install a CO detector. In a way it's more scary because it isn't dramatic like an explosion.

[PeterSibley]

Scary and dangerous ...a good reminder .I knew one man who died very quickly being exposed to exhaust gases in an enclosed space ...not a boat .

[Nicholas Scheuer]

If the obvious all check out, like exhaust system leaks, try somthing different with your exhaust port; pipe extension, wind deflector, clamshell cover, anything that makes the exhaust behave differently, an hopefully, satisfactorily.

The CO detector mentioned above is key here, so you can judge the effectiveness of various "fixes".

[Thorne]

Battery detectors are available from Amazon for $20 -
http://www.amazon.com/Kidde-KN-COPP-B-Battery-Operated-Monoxide-Digital/dp/B0007ZYU7C/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1252450807&sr=8-2

[py]

I recall that the woman who's name escapes me who sailed alone around the world a few years ago nearly died of CO poisoning when the exhaust pipe on a petrol powered genset cracked, allowing exhaust gas into the cabin. She woke up some time later, and found the genset had stopped when it ran out of fuel. Lucky it didn't have a bigger fuel tank. Kay Cottee was it?

[PeterSibley]

Lynn Pardey recorded almost dying one evening sitting with friends down below , at anchor in the UK .An unventialated heater was the culprit .

[StevenBauer]

There are other subtle effects of low exposure levels over longer periods of time. Be careful.


Steven

[Paul Pless]

You can even be overcome by CO from swimming near a running boat. I had a friend in high school that drowned after losing consciousness when she was swimming behind a running skiboat.

[Dale Genther]

I don't know if it is true or not but I recently attended an ABYC course where the instructer told us that a properly running diesel engine produces little or no CO. Gas engines are the real culprit.

[Timex]

I'll add to this.

Last year, I had arrangements made with a guy to haul my 37' CC up his rail.

For about 70yrs, his family operated a 2-story, 2-slip boat-house, with enough room left over for a Rail System, and lots of space around them.

During difficult times, late 60’s early 70’s, when fiberglass cruiser’s were really hitting the seen, and rails weren’t needed for them, the Father sold allot of the property around their location. He didn’t believe glass boats would have the impact they did. The Father had passed away, and the Son took over.

The guys that bought the land up, put in Boat-Lifts for the new glass fleet, and were doing well.

They were down to a pretty small track, with their home, boat-house, and rail system.

They were used mainly by wood cruiser owners and could store about 20 cruisers in the front yard, most 37'-45' in size.

My arrangements & deposit had been made, before the son passed away of Carbon Monoxide, poising.

The Son, had just finished re-wiring a engine compartment, in the boat house, with both slip-door's open, like he had done for the last 35yrs, and started the boat to check it out, just a few minutes.

They boat was running extreamly rich, stuck float in the carb, gas almost pouring down.

The wind that day was against him.

In fact, a new WBF member, Mike, had introduced himself and his Egg-Harbor, Mike and I, quietly, discussed the owners passing in this thread....

The photos of Mikes Egg-Harbor up on the Rail, are that yard.

The Yard is closed now.

http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=101641 (http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=101641)

When the owners Mother called me to tell me what happened, I told her to take my deposit and put it toward her sons, funeral.

This guy, grew up around boating.

You can never be to safe.

Tim

[PeterSibley]

You can even be overcome by CO from swimming near a running boat. I had a friend in high school that drowned after losing consciousness when she was swimming behind a running skiboat.
:(
That is worth noting Paul .Thank you .

[Fitz]

Given all the fresh air commonly associated with boating, some of the information in this brochure surprised me a few weeks ago:

http://www.uscgboating.org/command/co/accumulate.htm

[WillW]

Thanks for the tips, that link you provided Fitz was really good, and probably shows what's going on. (The "station wagon effect" takes me back.)

A couple of doubts that I have:

- I doubt that diesels produce less carbon monoxide than gassers.
- I doubt that I'm getting leakage from exhaust hoses etc. (though I will inspect any)

So here' s what I'm planning to do:

- get a carbon monoxide detector
- install an exhaust extender
- take down the dodger or use the autopilot and sit up on the cabin top.

[Dale Genther]

Here is some info. I found on deisels and carbon monoxide

http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Garage/5067/emissions.html

This info. really got my interest going because of how strong the exhaust smell of a diesel is compared to a gas engine. So I went to our own boats to do my own test. We have two boats sitting almost next to each other in the marina. The first is a sailboat powered by a Yanmar 3GM30F diesel, the other is a powerboat powered by a Olds. 403 cu.in gas engine. We have several AC powered CO detectors in our house as we heat with wood in the winter. I took one of them and hooked it up to an extension cord and hung it off the transom of the sailboat where I could definatly smell the diesel exhaust with the engine running. The detector did not alarm. I then took the same detector to the swim platform of the powerboat. With the engine running I couldn't really smell anything, but the detector alarmed within a couple of minutes.

Also, I just checked ABYC std. A-24. It requires that all boats with a gas engine or a gas generator in an enclosed space built after July 2008 be equipped with a CO detector. Diesel engine are exempt.

This informal test more or less confirms what I was told about diesel engines and CO. Even though you can easily smell diesel exhaust is doesn't always mean it contains CO. And even though you can't smell the exhaust from a gas engine, it still contains a lot of CO.

[willmarsh3]

Yep, it appears that diesels don't normally put out much CO.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_engine#Emissions

Very interesting. They only put out much CO when starved for air. Once I was running mine hard to punch through heavy chop and make good headway. I observed the exhaust to be black. I called the mechanic and he said it was because the engine was starved for air.

But I would never bet my life on it. I'd use the same precautions as with gas engines.

[WillW]

Interesting about the diesel emissions and lower C02 emissions, however if you're motoring for extended periods, it could still produce fumes.

[meuritt]

What Fitz posted.

The Power Squadron class I took many years ago made a big deal about running dead down wind and having the cockpit spaces fill up with CO2. I've noticed the pilothouse of my motor sailor filling up while motoring down the channel, wind directly from behind, about the same speed as we are going. All windows opened helped very little.

The solution to the problem is to zig and zag so the breeze blows the exhaust to the side past the cockpit, not into the cockpit.