f*&&%&^%&* boats

[whb]

A friend of mine has a 45' or there abouts Bayliner and being the complete boat newbie that I am I asked if they painted it to protect it from UV. He said "no-but they do polish it". Now this is an older boat and still looks brand new.

From reading this forum I get the impression that unprotected f&%%^$%# will die a quick death if not painted or varnished.

Do the commericial manufacturers have access to F&^$^$*&%*&^ that we don't?

Howard

[Meerkat]

Probably UV protectants in the "polish" (wax). f-glass does "chalk" when exposed to UV without protection. Has to be buffed off, which wears down the gel coat.

[Todd Bradshaw]

The gelcoat on the outside of a fiberglass boat is so full of filler and pigment that it is a very good U.V. blocker. It's surface will chalk and deteriorate somewhat over time but can be polished, removing the dead, outer stuff. The actual inner part of the layup (the structural part with the resin and glass fibers)gets little, if any, U.V. There are plenty of things that can go wrong with a fiberglass boat, but sunlight attacking the laminate usually isn't one of them.

[Hugh Paterson]

Ah, but some colors (pigments) used in the Gelcoats are prone to chalking more than others, case in point the royal blue around the deckmoulding on late 80's early 90's model Bayliners, I have lost count of the amount of 2655's that I have had to cut back to get a good sheen, I usually end up spray painting them with a good two pack poly to get the gloss back. ;)
Shug.

[thechemist]

White or colored pigments are added by the manufacturer to gel-coat in varying quantities, as a substitute for paint.

There are many ways in which poor quality control can exacerbate the natural failure mechanisms of an inherently flawed design.

Since pigment dispersions are expensive, the boat manufacturer has an incentive to use as little as possible. This allows the ultraviolet to penetrate a greater depth and degrade more of the gel-coat resin.

Some boat manufacturers may even buy dry powder pigments and mix them into the gel-coat with such sophisticated equipment as an electric drill and Jiffy-mixer. These pigments are not properly dispersed and the cured surface will chalk rapidly.

Relatively untrained personnel may add some varying amount of color-concentrates to one batch or another, or less expensive pigments which are not light-stable may be used instead of more expensive ones that have better resistance to ultraviolet degradation.

As if that were not bad enough, the aromatic-ring structure of the backbone of a cured polyester [they have a common ancestor in phthalic anhydride] will inherently degrade with exposure to sunlight, causing both yellowing and chalking. Adding insult to injury is the effect of water on a cured polyester resin. This happens not only below the waterline but above-water as well. The degradation of polyesters by water is well-known as the ester-hydrolysis reaction, wherein ester plus water gives acid plus base. The bases tend to be small, volatile molecules which can escape by evaporation, creating thereby the hydrolyzed acidic residue of broken polymeric chains, betrayed chemical bonding promises and the vicious attack by once-trusted molecular partners against their lifelong mates, leaving ultimately a barren wasteland where polymers wither and sink into an anguished, hopeless mind-numbing paralysis of purpose and, finally, a wretched ignoble death.

[stan v]

I hate f*^)^%)_$(! :D

Great post, sir!

[ 10-27-2002, 05:48 PM: Message edited by: stan v ]

[thechemist]

Originally posted by stan v:
I hate f*^)^%)_$(!Could you put that another way?

[Memphis Mike]

The boat you speak of sir can be restored
with common latex house paint. Thin it
out and spray it on, you'll see what I mean.

[whb]

Thanks to all responses. Just to prove how little I know I'm going to ask a further question.

Is Gel coating beyond the average amateur. Here is my thinking.

I really enjoy building (the first time). However, the boat I build will get a lot of use in shallow water and will require the protection afforded by f*&%^%$.

I don't however enjoy the prospects of painting the thing annually. If I can GEL coat it and be careful to avoid the pitfalls that Chemist has enumerated aren't I ahead?

Howard

[stan v]

whb, I'll have mine repainted by spring next year. I anticipate service of at least 5-7 years with Brightside. Prep (that only took a second to say), roll and tip. Great finish. Or, I have also used house paint that has lasted 4 years plus. Much cheaper, but doesn't flow as well.

[DutchRub]

I know first hand that Hatteras yachts takes a hull from the mould and sands her up to put a coat of uerethane on her- 2 part of course-used to use awlgrip-dont know what they use now fer sure but heard that its gone down to one of the lesser brands.

[On Vacation]

Amazing how you know so much, Dutchrub. Tell us more about your history in boating. Have you ever had any boats sink on you? What do you do when that happens?

Awlquip on a Hatteras???? ROFLMAO You must live close to where there are built. Where is that by some chance?

[DutchRub]

Oyster- I get a funy felin ya dont believe me- but since I been in the plant and seen er first hand- I dont believe ya can say I dont know what I be saying. That be the New Bern plant where the expensive ones r built. Cant say about their other place. Maybe you know smart as you be.

[ 10-27-2002, 07:30 PM: Message edited by: Dutchrub ]

[Memphis Mike]

:D LIB

[Buddy Sharpton]

Yep its true, Hatteras puts Imron at the factory over the gelcoated parts. Lets the gelcoat be formulated to yield a great smooth flawless surface, and the linera poly urethane do whats its supposed to do, protect from UV and moisture.

[On Vacation]

Exactly Buddy. Read Leggett and company's post again. Chemicals will do strange things to the mind and memory.

[ 10-28-2002, 10:16 AM: Message edited by: oyster ]

[DutchRub]

Originally posted by oyster:
Amazing how you know so much, Dutchrub. Tell us more about your history in boating. Have you ever had any boats sink on you? What do you do when that happens?

Awlquip on a Hatteras???? ROFLMAO You must live close to where there are built. Where is that by some chance?Now how much do you know sir oyster?

[ 10-28-2002, 04:05 PM: Message edited by: Dutchrub ]

[On Vacation]

posted 10-27-2002 06:36 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks to all responses. Just to prove how little I know I'm going to ask a further question.

Is Gel coating beyond the average amateur. Here is my thinking.

I really enjoy building (the first time). However, the boat I build will get a lot of use in shallow water and will require the protection afforded by f*&%^%$.

I don't however enjoy the prospects of painting the thing annually. If I can GEL coat it and be careful to avoid the pitfalls that Chemist has enumerated aren't I ahead?

Howard

Gel coating is not done outside of a moulded boat in a mould designed for fiberglass boat building. There are occassions that decks are rolled with it and hulls are shot with it, but you will need to wet and dry it and buff it.

You will not like the work involved and still have to do more in the future to the hull to keep the shine on it.

You will be very happy spending your time cleaning your gel coat, checking for spider cracks and priming it with a nice high build or two part poly primer and having someone to spray it with a nice urethane paint. If the boat is in good condition and you will wash and clean it after every use, you will get a lot of years of happy service with a surface you will be proud of.

Awlquip. Imron and Concepts 2,000 are amoung the poly paints avaliable on the open market.

[whb]

Thanks All,

It seems that Gel coating is not in the books so painting will have to be the plan.

Howard

[DutchRub]

If you go with gel coat

Dont forget to add finishing wax to the gel when mixing it up-all polyester resins are air inhibited and the surface will never fully cure unless the surface is cut off from the atmosphere via "finishing wax" Wax doesnt need to be added to gel sprayed into a old because the exterior surface of the boats gel is up against the mold and thus cut off from the air-all in all gel is not the way to go for a boat out of the mold