The Boatbuilding bug has nipped me again!

[Christine DeMerchant]

I'm trying to figure out what to build next and need some help.

My little Skerry serves me really well but there is one problem for me.
When the wind is from the South, the chop can be tremendous and there is nothing that Cricket likes less than bouncing around. I sail on Lake Ontario and the Humber bay is renowned for its chop. Usually I get out of the break wall and run for my life away from shore where it settles down a bit.
The waves can build up pretty fast too when the wind is from the South and last time I was out there were 2 meter waves. I had to really pay attention!
Since I sail alone most of the time I have to have a simple rig.

I was looking at Jim Michalaks Frolic2.

Quite long (20 feet) that should help with the chop.
Light enough for one person to launch (with some difficulty, but my boat club has a machine that can pull a boat out of the water at the ramp, I guess I would call it an electric winch).
It weights in at about 400 pounds, that should help with the chop too. (I suspect that lighter materials would reduce this a bit)

No keel just a lea board. Never used one but I have no objection to it.
A wee cabin and seats, not a necessity but sort of nice. I'm still hoping to convince my Sweety to join me.

http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/frolic2/index.htm

I find it reassuring that a frolic2 has participated successfully in a race like the Everglades challenge.

The boat is not the prettiest boat around but it has an interesting shape and if finished carefully could be quite nice.

I also like it that it is capable of being rowed since he has kept it quite narrow.

Any comments, suggestions?
I'm a middling woodworker and I have most of the usual tools. Not much space though. Another plus for the relatively narrow hull.
Thanks
Chris

[outofthenorm]

Christine, I've sailed the Humber Bay quite a bit and I know the grief it can cause - steep chop and multiple wave trains are no fun, especially when the wind is light!

I don't have any specific input for you on what to build, but I would strongly advise against a lee-board design. In those choppy conditions, lateral resistance is critical to maintaining steerage. You need the most efficiently shaped, reliably positioned foil possible. Deeper is better, and a bit of weight is a plus.

- Norm

[James McMullen]

Leeboards, as surface piercing foils, are not at their best in really choppy water. You really want a fully submerged, end-stopped foil like a centerboard, daggerboard or fixed keel in the rough stuff. I tried 'em, but I'll never use a leeboard again on any of my boats.

Plus,

The boat is not the prettiest boat around. . .

So why on earth would you invest time and money building one? Wouldn't you rather have a boat you can be unreservedly proud of rather than apologetic? You can probably buy a used MacGregor 26X for cheaper than building a new Frolic if you're content with owning an ugly boat.

[Yeadon]

Cricket ... what a nice name for a boat. I think you'll end up picking a pretty design. Just got a hunch here.

You need something that can take a bit of weather. I would want something with a centerboard trunk, and a round bottom. I'd get a copy of John Gardner's Small Craft (http://www.amazon.com/Building-Classic-Small-Craft-Instructions/dp/007142797X) book and read it, then I'd revisit this conversation. You may not find the boat you're looking for in there, but he'll answer a lot of your questions along the way.

[johnw]

I'm thinking something with sharp waterlines and enough bearing aft to make the bow cut into the wave instead of slamming into it. Round bilge, sharp bow, no leeboards--anything that will move around in waves is bad.

http://books.google.com/books?id=Maf4G6kjzKkC&pg=PA44&lpg=PA44&dq=woodenboat+lively&source=bl&ots=znZoYnqhGj&sig=J8seScVsd9JQCAcp7S2at8UAf08&hl=en&ei=eQyaSualMI3WsgO935H_AQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3#v=onepage&q=woodenboat%20lively&f=false

[Christine DeMerchant]

Thanks for the input, I'm still puzzled though.

Maybe I will rephrase my question then.

What should I avoid if I'm trying to get through chop easily? Well more easily anyway?

I always figured length was important and some weight but otherwise...?

Chris

[Woxbox]

I think that your skerry is pretty much just the right boat for what you are doing, and to get any real improvement in sailing the lumpy water you will have to move to a ballasted design that wont row so well. Another 4 or 5 feet in length will help, but I doubt it will make the difference youre looking for. Been out on any other boats that do perform closer to what you want?

[Christine DeMerchant]

I have very little experience in sailing anything except my Skerry, but I've been out in a large range of conditions in her. She handles very well for me except for the chop. My last sail ended up in 2 meter chop with 12knots wind, quite the most exciting sail ever.

I've crewed a few times in a Wayfairer, that's what many people at our club like to sail, and it is a bit better, they still get shaken about lots though. Its not such a good design for me because it really needs 2 people for proper sailing. It also slams down a bit.

Has anyone ever tried a Proa? Gary Dierking has a design that can be built in 3 pieces that ends up about 24 feet long. Quite stable I think and with the extra length better in waves. It would be a interesting sailing experience learning to handle such a boat.

Several of you have mentioned round bilges. I've been a bit hesitant because I imagine it would make the boat more tender no? Could a V shape work as well?

I'm speaking from a position of great ignorance. The more I learn the more I realize how much I don't know!

Thanks
Chris

[James McMullen]

A bigger "Skerry" does the trick for me. That sort of hull shape has been preferred for small boats in rough water for at least a millennium. Ship's lifeboats, whaleboats, surf rescue boats, sixerns, yoles, faerings, Norway yawls. . . .

A bigger boat will indeed handle a certain size wave with more aplomb than a smaller boat, all else being equal. Finding the right size boat that is manageable for a singlehanded rower while otherwise being as big as possible is the trick. For me, the Oughtred Ness Yawl/Arctic Tern sort of boat has proved to be ideal, and supremely seaworthy to boot. It looks basically like a 20' version of the Skerry, though it is a substantially bigger and more capable boat just because of its increased buoyancy and waterline length. You can sand up and walk around from side to side and end to end without a problem when you get to this size boat. The yawl rig is also more friendly for a singlehander than a single sail, easing reefing and sail-handling tasks. I still go sailing even in winds up to 30 kts. I will be making a crossing in my boat of the Straits of Juan de Fuca, about 20 miles of open water, in about a week from now, with no more than the usual nervousness.

Tucking in a reef a mile from the nearest shore.
http://inlinethumb38.webshots.com/42597/2869347080088484686S600x600Q85.jpg (http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2869347080088484686xLPMnS)

[TerryLL]

Hi Christine.
Your CLC Skerry is a great little boat, and you did a terrific job putting it together. I think the problems you're having in heavy chop is mostly a function of the boat's size and weight. A few hundred pounds of additional boat and five feet of additional length will make a big difference. Perhaps what you need is a similar hull in a larger size, such as a gunning dory, or one of Iain Oughtred's double-ended beach boats.

I built Oughtred's 18'3" John Dory some years ago and used it extensively in some very nasty conditions in SE Alaska, and it served very well.

BTW, great blog!

[Christine DeMerchant]

Hi James
I like your boat. It is absolutely beautiful.

You guys are right of course. Why go away from something I know and like. I have no trouble visualizing myself in a larger Skerry type boat; proven design and gorgeous.

I'll have a look at the specs of Oughtred boats. Judging from my Skerry I have no doubts as to the seaworthiness of the design.

Its amazing how a few well placed remarks help me to clear up my thoughts.

Thanks!

Christine

[TerryLL]

Well, since that scalawag James not only snuck his post in ahead of mine, but also posted yet another pic of his lovely Rowan, I feel compelled to add yet another pic of my John Dory, sitting happily at water's edge waiting on the rising tide.

http://i325.photobucket.com/albums/k365/TerryLava/johndory.jpg?t=1251646965

[Christine DeMerchant]

Hi Terry
Your boat is absolutely lovely.
I never considered a dory. In my preconceived ignorance I always imagined it was not very steady until it had a load full of cod.
How does it sail?
Chrstine

[Yeadon]

I wonder if a bit more weight in the skerry would help its performance? The boat would get a bit more displacement, and might settle down a bit in the chop. Is your experience different when you have two people in the boat? What about three?

(I know these are not the exact technical terms I'm looking for, but the basic premise should make sense. I'll wait for JohnW to come along and say it better.)

[TerryLL]

The flat-sided banks dories are the tender ones that are ever so tippy when unloaded. The round-sided Swampscott dories are a different animal altogether. There is a wide range of beam/length ratios in the Swampscotts, with the widest ones being the best sailers. The narrower ones, like the John Dory, are true oar and sail boats that both row and sail well. On the waterline these boats are essentially double-enders, so they slip through the water with minimal fuss.

The flat bottom is a true delight when beaching and trailering, and when installing the CB case and floorboards. The build is fairly quick and inexpensive and perfectly suited to glued-lap construction using marine plywood.

The Dory Book by John Gardner is a great source of information and plans for all types of dories