Ok to let outboard spin while sailing?

[Scott de M]

Hello all,

I have a Honda 2hp outboard with centrifugal clutch that I use in a motor well on my Caledonia Yawl. I'm just learning to sail this boat and still working out kinks in the rigging etc. so for peace of mine until I'm confident heaving to and reefing etc, I'd like to sail for a while with the outboard in place so it can be started at a moments notice, if needed. But when I do this the propellor spins, at times fast enough to make a noticeable hum.

Is there any harm to the outboard in doing this? I think that since the motor is not spinning that the clutch is disengaged and so the prop just spins in "neutral".

Thanks for any advice.
Scott

[TimH]

I have the Honda 2hp also. I dont let mine drag for 2 reasons:

Lots of drag slowing me down
Its noisy.

[Scott de M]

Yep, drag and noise, I'm with you on that. I don't intend to do this often. This is just "training wheels" until I get comfortable with the boat and rig.

Tim have you come up with a good system for refueling when you're bouncing in the waves? My first attempt yesterday using Sigg fuel bottles resulted in spilling gas everywhere. I thought I could carefully pour it in but I underestimated the effect of the boat pitching on my aim.

[paladin]

Are the gears self lubricating or do they require the engine to be running to get lubrication....one reason for not letting a fixed propeller freewheel
is that the gearbox would be running without lubrication in most instances, destroying it eventually.

[James McMullen]

I think for a boat as small and light as a CY, leaving that motor in for the reasons you describe is utterly unnecessary. Keeping an oar handy, or even a canoe paddle is all you'd ever need for getting out of irons or missing an obstacle you're drifting towards. Many folks don't use a motor of any kind, ever, in boats like this.

[TimH]

Tim have you come up with a good system for refueling when you're bouncing in the waves? My first attempt yesterday using Sigg fuel bottles resulted in spilling gas everywhere. I thought I could carefully pour it in but I underestimated the effect of the boat pitching on my aim.

Havent had to do that. I just use the motor to get out of and into the marina. I havent used but a gallon of gas all summer.

[Thorne]

There was a previous thread that covered refueling while underway -- some very clever solutions. I think someone used a squeeze system or possibly a bulb-siphon?

Any chance of adding a removable mount on the side of the CY, so that the outboard could be tilted up?

[Scott de M]

Hi James! Launch pic on the CY site and here:

http://api.ning.com/files/ceAjiDuLn7hevw7KckYBoiADcAWKIgOOk1DX1eRoTavpfDYKky jJMKsJohQC8AXD/Launchpic1.JPG?width=737&height=552

. Yep, oars work fine for the tasks you describe and I don't intend to use the motor much after I get my rigging worked out. But a motor would be nice when something goes wrong and you're having trouble pointing into the wind to reef the main. For instance, yesterday my mizzen sheet got wrapped around the boomkin and jammed so I could not sheet it in to heave to. So I started the motor and motored slowly into the wind to control the mizzen while I pulled the boomkin to clear it.

[Vinny&Shawn]

[r refueling when you're bouncing in the waves? My first attempt yesterday using Sigg fuel bottles resulted in spilling gas everywhere. I thought I could carefully pour it in but I underestimated the effect of the boat pitching on my aim.[/QUOTE]

There are a number of gas poly containers with atomatic shut off spigots,(spring loaded) work well in pitching environment.

Not sure about the spinning prop,I also have a Honda 2hp but have not left it in well under way,simply ask the deaklership or Honda,I am sure they woukd provide you with pro and con.

[Stiletto]

Most outboards have the bottom gears operating in oil, so lack of lubrication should not be an issue. I dont think the resultant prop end thrust will matter much either.

[Ron Williamson]

Regarding refueling,somewhere I've seen a gas cap with proper outboard type quick connect fitting mounted on it.From there was a fuel line/primer bulb and small remote fuel tank.
R

[Dan McCosh]

FWIW, a boat coming back from the Mackinac race this summer blew up and burned when attempting to refuel with gas cans offshore.

[Ron Carter]

Back to the thread topic, the motor won't be damaged but the excess drag will be very undesirable except in very strong winds. You will have light wind response issues with the prop in the water. In that case the "training wneels" will interfere with your learning curve. As previously stated ditch the motor for everything but long no wind passages.

[I, Rowboat]

Back to the thread topic, the motor won't be damaged but the excess drag will be very undesirable except in very strong winds. You will have light wind response issues with the prop in the water. In that case the "training wneels" will interfere with your learning curve. As previously stated ditch the motor for everything but long no wind passages.

I agree with Ron and would add that the drag from the motor, when not in use, will increase the tendency of the bow to fall off while you're trying to reef the main; all that drag aft may as well be a sea anchor on your stern. The best policy would be to ditch the motor and work on a foul-proof system for the mizzen sheet, so you've always got the wind rudder ready to assist you in reefing. On my Ness Yawl, the mizzen is also really handy for lying head to wind when baiting, setting, and retrieving crab pots.

[Scott de M]

Thanks all, all good points. I promise to become a better sailor ASAP! This is just a big jump for me from a Bolger Gypsy with a minimalist sprit rig to the CY with 2 masts 2 sails and all of the attendant lines. I promise to stow the motor as soon as I am happy that my lines and hardware are properly arranged.

[Pytheas]

I also sail a CY with a 2hp Honda 4-stroke and noticed the propeller turning the only time I left it in the well when sailing. Now I take it out and set it up near the bow. That means I am looking for an effective way to secure it there. Has anyone added chalks for the motor to rest on? Lash it to the floorboards? Could it be safely trailered there?

I keep some backpacker's fuel bottles that hold not quite 1/3 liter for gasoline. With the small bottles I can pour the entire contents in the tank which helps prevent spills. So far that has worked well for me.

[Jay Greer]

Here is an interesting series of photos I took during the 2007 Wooden Boat Festival Sail by. Two Rosinantes that are essentialy the same boat, one with a dinghy in tow and the other with an outboard in neutral so as to free wheel are sailing on the same tack. I will let the pictures speak for themselves.
Jay
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9d610b3127ccec7ab7ee3689a00000040O00QYsmrNy5bsQ e3nwg/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9d610b3127ccec7aad0b048d200000040O00QYsmrNy5bsQ e3nwg/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9d610b3127ccec7aa0d10088400000040O00QYsmrNy5bsQ e3nwg/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/
Granted, a wind shift caused the leward boat to gain the weather board in the last picture. But that was after it had sailed through the lee of the boat dragging the outboard.
Jay

[Scott de M]

Hi Pytheas. I think that my plan for next time is to use the small backpacker bottles and a big funnel. I lined the carrying bag for the motor with an old ensolite sleeping pad and it seems to snuggle under the rear thwart just fine. I had not thought to lash it in place but that is not a bad idea too.

Thanks Jay, so what you're saying is that if I leave the motor in place then I need to tow a dinghy to make up for the drag of the motor?:D But seriously, those photos are great illustrations.

[Tylerdurden]

If refueling a small motor mounted tank a 3/8 id bulb hose works well.
I use a small electric pump From a Merc with a push button momentary switch for my six gallon. One can be made up cheap and you have total control.

[Ian McColgin]

Oddly, till you think about it, a freewheeling prop offers more resistance than a still prop. Like seriously more.

Examples from flight might help. Pilots won't let a prop freewheel if the engin can't be restarted, partly to prevent further damage to the engin but also to eliminate the serious drag.

Better example - a helicopter that looses power can usually be brought safely to land if the main rotor-wing can autorotate. If you freeze the wing, it will drop like a stone.

Same is true in water. It's not just drag of overcoming any resistance in the transmission. It's the fact that the hydrodynamic forces of the prop blades in rotary motion are much more serious than when they are still. It's been roughly compared as still the prop offers the resistance of it's blade area but rotating it offers the resistance of piD. That's not actually true: A freespinning prop offers considerably more resistance than a disc with the same diameter as the prop.

So, until you realize that the OB is not a safety devise and really belongs on shore, at least pop it in reverse when sailing.

G'luck

[Stiletto]

He cant pop it into reverse, it has a centrifugal clutch. ( That is if you were referring to the original poster.)

[Ian McColgin]

I don't know much about outboards and may have labored under a misapprehension. Mechanical clutches like twin discs will freeze the prop in either forward or reverse, most hydraulic types, and I'd thought centrifugals, need to be in reverse to stop the prop and prevent damage from freewheeling. Maybe one of our knowledgable engineer types can straighten me out on all this. All I really know is that free-wheeling makes huge resistance.

[Brian Palmer]

I finally understand what Ian is saying after all these years. I remember my dad shifting our inboard into gear when under sail and I didn't quite believe that it would reduce drag.

The freewheeling prop is actually developing "lift" (now drag) in the opposite direction of the boat's travel, even though some of the energy of the drag is dissipated by the prop's rotation, instead of being exerted as force against the "locked" prop shaft.

Jay's photo series is pretty telling of the drag of the outboard engine, although that looks like the outboard is pretty oversized for a Rozinante.

Brian

[JimD]

... Launch pic on the CY site and here:

http://api.ning.com/files/ceAjiDuLn7hevw7KckYBoiADcAWKIgOOk1DX1eRoTavpfDYKky jJMKsJohQC8AXD/Launchpic1.JPG?width=737&height=552



Beautifu boat. Marvelous pic. Where was it taken