getting started in the design career

[yachtaholic]

hello fellow wooden boat enthusiasts, im looking for any advice on how to get started in the design industry. im 25 and have been working and building boats since i was a kid. im looking to do a course in yacht and small craft design....so please spare none of your thoughts....!
but now for the catch.... im a south african cruising the caribbean on a german passport, and would like to settle in the US working on wooden boats and design projects.
so what do you think my approach should be?

[paladin]

Make lots of money, retire, then study yacht design as a hobby.

[Paul Pless]

> :D

[Clinton B Chase]

Take Paul Gartside's design course at the Wooden Boat school. Take it twice! That is all you need. I'd suggest Westlawn to get all the skills with computation and computer work. With your background that should be all you need, then move to Maine and set up at a local yard. You might have to compete with me, though!

[kc8pql]

but now for the catch.... im a south african cruising the caribbean on a german passport, and would like to settle in the US, working on wooden boats and design projects.

That's probably your biggest problem. A green card, which you need to work legally, is a lot harder to get than it used to be.

[mmd]

If contemplating small boat design as a money-making enterprise, don't limit yourself to wood only.

[dskira]

Make lots of money, retire, then study yacht design as a hobby.

The best advise you can have:D
Cheers
Daniel

[Thorne]

I suspect that settling down in a boatbuilding area is requisite for this job -- you need the contacts for learning, building resources, selling and using your own boats.

The designers amongst us can comment more knowledgeably, but I think that most of 'em got started while settled in one area - many building their own copies of their designs or working closely with other builders.

[john welsford]

There are two paths to becoming a professional designer.
One, get a qualification, many states require a professional engineering qualification before you start. Once you have that you go and get a job as a designer.

Two, learn enough to do your own design work, then hang out your shingle for custom design work, a professional qualification will be a huge help in getting insurance and in the USA you cant afford to practice without that.

Actually, there is a third way, and thats to design boats and publicise them through the boating media in order to sell stock plans. Thats a hard road to travel and usually means working a dayjob to pay the rent.

John Welsford

[dskira]

That's probably your biggest problem. A green card, which you need to work legally, is a lot harder to get than it used to be.

It is not a insurance you need to practice in the US it is, as mentioned wisely by Kc8pql, a green card.
Don't put the cart before the horse, as somme do.:)
Cheers
Daniel

[john welsford]

The insurance I mean is Liability insurance, if a vessel that you design does not meet its performance specification is one issue and bad enough, but if a vessel has an accident, sinks, goes missing, or in any other way injures someone or damages itself or others property then the lawyers get involved and without insurance you're in deep trouble. Without some form of qualification its getting much harder to get your design practice insured.

Green card? Thats a separate issue and that, or its equivalent will be required no matter which country you move to.

John Welsford


It is not a insurance you need to practice in the US it is, as mentioned wisely by Kc8pql, a green card.
Don't put the cart before the horse, as somme do.:)
Cheers
Daniel

[dskira]

John, perhaps you are right, but I practice naval architecture for more than 40 years, and never heard of this kind on insurance. You can't insure a design. Perhaps you can if you want I don't know. I had insurance long time ago for my employees, but not for the drawing.
If you sell a stock plan and the boat sink because of the design, the customer will sue you for sure, but you can't insure a stock plan.To my knoweldge.
The customer can sue you, (even a dry cleaner was sued here) but this is a localise incident. The boabuilder has an insurence for fire and so on, the owner has an insurence for third party and if he want for his boat.
But naval architect? perhaps I miss the train, and perhaps I should caught with the modern world. I am getting old and I hate spending money for a bunch of voltures:D
By the way John, as I mentioned earlier, I like very much your designs. I posted the picture of a little one, I don't remember in wich post, it was a real jewel. A classic one, realy nice.
Cheers
Daniel

[kc8pql]

And I'll add, as a practical matter, that before he spends a lot of time and money or whatever, if he wants to live and work in the US, he needs to find out what he would need to do to gain resident alien immigration status (commonly called a green card). This can take literally years of waiting in line for your name to come up, and then more years of waiting while they consider your case.

[NYCKiwi]

John, perhaps you are right, but I practice naval architecture for more than 40 years, and never heard of this kind on insurance. You can't insure a design. Perhaps you can if you want I don't know. I had insurance long time ago for my employees, but not for the drawing.
If you sell a stock plan and the boat sink because of the design, the customer will sue you for sure, but you can't insure a stock plan.
Cheers
Daniel

Hi Daniel,
I think John was talking about liability insurance for the boat designer, rather than for the design.

[Paul Kotzebue]

It's Professional Liability Insurance, sometimes called "errors and omissions" insurance. It's expensive and not many yacht designers have it.

[mmd]

Stupidly, egregiously, criminally expensive...

[dskira]

Stupidly, egregiously, criminally expensive...

Again well said.

[dskira]

Hi Daniel,
I think John was talking about liability insurance for the boat designer, rather than for the design.

You have a good point. thank you for correcting me.
Look at the MMD post, quite right:D

[George Roberts]

It's Professional Liability Insurance, sometimes called "errors and omissions" insurance. It's expensive and not many yacht designers have it.

Cheap if you ever have to use it.

The process is entertaining. You get a small policy from a large insurer. When you ask to kick it up, the insurer asks "Why?" The insurer looks for someone to unload the risk to. Strange phone calls and visits - and you pay for the visits one way or another. Finally someone accepts the risk for a price. And the insurance becomes another fixed cost in your life.

Of course, since a lot of designers lack the deep pockets to make a claim worth while to pursue, most designers don't really have a need for insurance.

[john welsford]

I have found that membership of a professional society helps immensly when looking for professional liability insurance, Royal Institute of Naval Architects ( RINA) or SNAME ( Society of Naval Architects and Marine Engineers ) are the two best known. Membership confers a lot of other benefits as well, access to their professional publications is worth the fees on its own.

John Welsford


Cheap if you ever have to use it.

The process is entertaining. You get a small policy from a large insurer. When you ask to kick it up, the insurer asks "Why?" The insurer looks for someone to unload the risk to. Strange phone calls and visits - and you pay for the visits one way or another. Finally someone accepts the risk for a price. And the insurance becomes another fixed cost in your life.

Of course, since a lot of designers lack the deep pockets to make a claim worth while to pursue, most designers don't really have a need for insurance.

[rbgarr]

An interview with Bob Perry: http://www.threesheetsnorthwest.com/blog/2009/08/qa-yacht-designer-bob-perry-talks-about-favorite-projects-wolves-in-sheeps-clothing-and-keeping-it-simple/

[yachtaholic]

wow.... thanx to all for the informative responses. i greatly appreciate it....

[yachtaholic]

Take Paul Gartside's design course at the Wooden Boat school. Take it twice! That is all you need. I'd suggest Westlawn to get all the skills with computation and computer work. With your background that should be all you need, then move to Maine and set up at a local yard. You might have to compete with me, though!
thank you clinton for answering the question that i was really asking. it seems the question got a bit lost in discussions of green cards and and whether or not one should have insurance. i was looking for information on ways of studying for a qualification in small craft design. i am full aware of the green card issue and i have my plans of action to overcome the problem.
thank you all again for your advice