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bobbys
08-23-2009, 11:55 AM
Whats the correct Man thing to do when this happens???.

I take my morn tea in my study but the cooks and maids had the day off.

So i went to brew my tea and reached for the Honey jar.

Only a bit of Honey , enough for one cup.

But ALAS a Horse fly had drowned right smack in the middle.. Not knowing what to do i searched in my Library for the Man book.

Could not find it went through 4 years of PLAYBOY but no mention of anything like this although Miss May Likes "real" men and walks on the beach under the moonlight..

Ok She looks good but thats no help and im getting desperate, The Sugar is ready to go but im on a British phase in my life and i dont want to blow it now.

Now another man might have been angrey, Another man might have been sad, But another man never would have let her go,

I stuffed the dough in my shirt!!.

Ok thats just a song i like and love to fit in but still what to do???.

I fished out the Horse fly threw it on the floor where the lab licked it up, The poor guy tested it for me with his LIFE!!!!.

I poured the boiling tea in the honey pot figuring the water would kill any germs.

Tasted very well thank you .

Another Hole punched on my MAN card!!!!

downthecreek
08-23-2009, 12:01 PM
The Sugar is ready to go but im on a British phase in my life and i dont want to blow it now.


Your British phase requires that your tea should be sweetened with honey?

Now that IS curious. :)

bobbys
08-23-2009, 12:47 PM
Your British phase requires that your tea should be sweetened with honey?

Now that IS curious. :).

Well actually all i know is from watching .

The last of the Summer wine.

On my TV cause it comes on at 8 on Saturday night.

I have no idea whats funny or what there doing but i have taken to adding a Yorkshire Dialect along with my Jersey accent

Canoeyawl
08-23-2009, 12:49 PM
You live with your mom?

downthecreek
08-23-2009, 12:57 PM
.

I have no idea whats funny or what there doing but i have taken to adding a Yorkshire Dialect along with my Jersey accent

Now that I would like to hear!

So they take honey in their tea in Yorkshire, do they? Well.....one learns a little something every day!

However....next time a horse fly commits suicide in your honey, pray do not unquiet yourself. A spoonful of sugar will in no way invalidate the authenticity of your British phase. Yorkshire is, after all, a law unto itself. :)

Glen Longino
08-23-2009, 01:52 PM
Good lord!
The correct man thing to do?
A Real Man would ditch the tea and the little painted cup and saucer and the honey.
He would brew up some coffee and drink it black from a hefty mug like a man.:)

isla
08-23-2009, 01:55 PM
Good lord!
The correct man thing to do?
A Real Man would ditch the tea and the little painted cup and saucer and the honey.
He would brew up some coffee and drink it black from a hefty mug like a man.:)

A real man would eat the horsefly. Anyway, they don't sweeten tea with anything in Yorkshire, sweet is for puffs. They put vinegar in it.

Glen Longino
08-23-2009, 01:58 PM
"vinegar in it"

Now there's some real men!

BETTY-B
08-23-2009, 02:02 PM
The man fly took heroic action and killed the bacteria for you by jumping in the honey. No boiling water needed.

Glen Longino
08-23-2009, 02:24 PM
Faht

:D
Did you hold your little finger out when you said that? Yes? I figgered!:)

Captain Blight
08-23-2009, 02:27 PM
Good lord!
The correct man thing to do?
A Real Man would ditch the tea and the little painted cup and saucer and the honey.
He would brew up some coffee and drink it black from a hefty mug like a man.:)

A REAL man would scoop out the fly, stir the honey right in, straighten his tie, balance the cup on the saucer while he walked into the living room and sat down to do whatever the hell he wanted and not worry about whatever anybody else thinks.

Did y'all know John Wayne had at least two cups of tea every single day of his life? Tea isn't to my palate, but that's good enough for me.


While we're on the subject: There was nothing Citrusy about Frank Sinatra. Dean Martin never used "product" in his hair. John Henry never moisturized. Isambard Kingdom Brunel was never known to flashi fashion designer labels.

Not that I think the Bilge Rats are metrosexuals. But we have so little common ground here sometimes, I thought it worth throwing out the reminder.;)

Glen Longino
08-23-2009, 02:33 PM
"John Wayne had at least two cups of tea every single day of his life"

Killed him too, didn't it !!
Need I say more?

Fitz
08-23-2009, 02:38 PM
I worked in the woods with a guy who would swat the horsefly (aka "deer fly" in the woods) and pop the carcass in his mouth and swallow. I'm guessing he ate about a dozen or more a day.

He figured it was the only right thing to do since the flies were hell bent on eating him.

stevebaby
08-23-2009, 04:32 PM
I poured the boiling tea in the honey pot figuring the water would kill any germs.

Honey itself is one of the most effective anti-bacterial agents available. It's one of the few anti-bacterials that works against MRSA (Golden Staph.) which has become resistant to conventional antibiotics.
I use it for dressing minor wounds and burns etc., and it works very well.

Mrleft8
08-23-2009, 04:51 PM
A real man would have tossed the tea, eaten the fly, put the honey in some blazing hot chili, and let the dog out the back door to minister to his own tender needs.

James McMullen
08-23-2009, 09:33 PM
I'm pretty sure it would have been just as good to eat as that worm in the bottle of tequila. If I had been there, I would have done my manly duty of egging you on and daring you to eat it.

C. Ross
08-23-2009, 10:05 PM
In York the fly's head would be nailed to the Monk's Bar.

The honey would be made into mead.

And you'd drink the damn tea unsweetened and you'd like it.

The Bigfella
08-23-2009, 10:18 PM
In York, Dutch's head would be nailed to the wall in the pub, the fly wouldn't be there, 'cause its too miserable a place for flies and the honey would be imported.

George Jung
08-23-2009, 10:19 PM
Classic!

downthecreek
08-24-2009, 03:44 AM
In York, Dutch's head would be nailed to the wall in the pub, the fly wouldn't be there, 'cause its too miserable a place for flies and the honey would be imported.

Never mind, Bigfella - it's only a game ;)

Just enjoyed some of my next door neighbour's honey for breakfast. Delicious! Sweet tea, however sweetened, is an abomination. :)

downthecreek
08-24-2009, 03:46 AM
I'm pretty sure it would have been just as good to eat as that worm in the bottle of tequila. If I had been there, I would have done my manly duty of egging you on and daring you to eat it.

How about a tot of marc au vipere? Now that's what real men drink. :)

PeterSibley
08-24-2009, 04:06 AM
Anyone who enjoys Last of the Summer Wine is forgiven many things in this life Bobby .:)

PeterSibley
08-24-2009, 04:10 AM
In York, Dutch's head would be nailed to the wall in the pub, the fly wouldn't be there, 'cause its too miserable a place for flies and the honey would be imported.

Actually I have an English friend who claimed to being the biggest beekeeper in Britain ....based somewhere in the Yorkshire countryside .He said the Scottish heaths were very good , a reliable crop of excellent honey .

He learned his trade in Queensland ,a much less reliable climate .

downthecreek
08-24-2009, 04:30 AM
Actually I have an English friend who claimed to being the biggest beekeeper in Britain ....based somewhere in the Yorkshire countryside .He said the Scottish heaths were very good , a reliable crop of excellent honey .
.

Scottish heather honey is very distinctive and very good. Oddly enough, another person who is sometimes tagged as Britain's "biggest" beekeeper (that's what you get for eating too much excellent British honey ;)) has his hives in London. I heard him interviewed on the radio recently.

PeterSibley
08-24-2009, 04:46 AM
This lad is lean and muscular , if greying .:D

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
08-24-2009, 04:47 AM
Scottish heather honey is very distinctive .... ....

I can't tell Scottish from Northumbrian - and I've taken crops off Scottish moors.

downthecreek
08-24-2009, 04:55 AM
I can't tell Scottish from Northumbrian - and I've taken crops off Scottish moors.

I don't expect I could either. Just the tang of heather honey. The borders are a law unto themselves.

Says Tweed ta Till
What gars ye rin sae still?
Says Till tae Tweed
Though ye rin wi' speed
An' I rin slaw,
For aye man ye droon
I droon twa'.

C. Ross
08-24-2009, 05:35 AM
How about a tot of marc au vipere? Now that's what real men drink. :)

The nose and color are pleasant, but it has a real bite to it. ;)

Paul Pless
08-24-2009, 06:29 AM
Sweet tea, however sweetened, is an abomination. :)hmmm... wonder at your thoughts on iced tea? (sweet of course)

downthecreek
08-24-2009, 06:32 AM
hmmm... wonder at your thoughts on iced tea? (sweet of course)

Never had it, m'dear (filthy foreign muck! :rolleyes:)

Me, I prefer to stick with the real McCoy. The cup that cheers but does not inebriate! That's the ticket! :)

brad9798
08-24-2009, 07:46 AM
Real men don't give maids time off ... not around here anyway!

Tom Montgomery
08-24-2009, 08:13 AM
Faht

Proper gentlemen take Beano prior to enjoying flies, thus preventing fahting while yachting.

brad9798
08-24-2009, 08:27 AM
There was a fly in my Grey Poupon once ...

James McMullen
08-24-2009, 08:39 AM
I dare you to eat it!

downthecreek
08-24-2009, 08:39 AM
There was a fly in my Grey Poupon once ...

There was a fly in my Prosecco yesterday evening, come to that. Only a little one, mind you......:)

downthecreek
08-24-2009, 08:42 AM
Beano .

You mean , Dennis the Menace and so forth? Or some other Beano? I'm afraid I never found the Beano of which I speak a very reliable prophylactic against fahting, whether whilst yachting or engaging in some other gentlemanly pursuit involving flies...... :)

Tom Montgomery
08-24-2009, 08:51 AM
I was not referring to this:

http://www.grannymar.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/beano.jpg

I was referring to this:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_sfw0cPTAuWs/SV0ze43kFVI/AAAAAAAAHiI/dshyIysshSo/s400/Couric_Beano.jpg

pefjr
08-24-2009, 08:59 AM
I could understand an Indian phase with a bow and arrows, a cowboy phase with boots and spurs, a Ty Cobb phase with a 'tigers' baseball shirt, even a cheerleader phase with a George Bush sweater, but........ a British tea phase?. And you got a punch in your man card ?

And the 4 yrs of Playboy was no distraction???? hmmmm... Man card uh..hmmm.

downthecreek
08-24-2009, 09:21 AM
I could understand an Indian phase with a bow and arrows, a cowboy phase with boots and spurs, a Ty Cobb phase with a 'tigers' baseball shirt, even a cheerleader phase with a George Bush sweater, but........ a British tea phase?. And you got a punch in your man card ?

And the 4 yrs of Playboy was no distraction???? hmmmm... Man card uh..hmmm.

Ah, a fine example of the rather prevalent American tendency to confuse "manly" with "macho".

Never mind, most adolescents grow up eventually :D

downthecreek
08-24-2009, 09:23 AM
I was not referring to this:

I was referring to this:



Thank you. On the face of it, a most confusing reference, but all is now clear. :)

pefjr
08-24-2009, 10:15 AM
Ah, a fine example of the rather prevalent American tendency to confuse "manly" with "macho".

Never mind, most adolescents grow up eventually

The Brits of the female variety don't complain about the American "macho", having never been exposed, they just ask for more, between the tea breaks.:D

downthecreek
08-24-2009, 10:19 AM
The Brits of the female variety don't complain about the American "macho", having never been exposed, they just ask for more, between the tea breaks.:D

They don't complain about it, but, like most European women, they tend to find the dick swinging rather more comical than alluring. :D

pefjr
08-24-2009, 10:39 AM
They don't complain about it, but, like most European women, they tend to find the dick swinging rather more comical than alluring. :D
European women?? would you agree the French women are different from the German, German from the Spanish, and so on?

downthecreek
08-24-2009, 12:35 PM
European women?? would you agree the French women are different from the German, German from the Spanish, and so on?

Sure thing. But most prefer grown up men. :)

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
08-24-2009, 12:56 PM
Earl Grey.


With Carnation milk.

Robert L E
08-24-2009, 01:13 PM
A real man would have tossed the tea, eaten the fly, put the honey in some blazing hot chili, and let the dog out the back door to minister to his own tender needs.

Sweet chili is called spaghetti sauce. If anything, you put something bitter, like cacao, into it. Come to think of it, sweet does not belong in tea either. Add something sour, like lemon (also remember to add the ice).

Bob

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
08-24-2009, 01:18 PM
Says Tweed ta Till
What gars ye rin sae still?
Says Till tae Tweed
Though ye rin wi' speed
An' I rin slaw,
For aye man ye droon
I droon twa'.

Up the creek a bit.

She sought him east, she sought him west,
She sought him braid and narrow,
Till in the clintin of a craig,
She found him drown'd in Yarrow.

pefjr
08-24-2009, 01:46 PM
Sure thing. But most prefer grown up men. :)we have a number of those beauties, they prefer flowers, playing cowboys and indians, and then mud wrestling.

C. Ross
08-24-2009, 01:57 PM
Sure thing. But most prefer grown up men. :)

Which brings us back to tea.

I enjoy tea, but have never had a "tea" that I would consider manly much less macho.

A real man doesn't crave a midafternoon meal with finger sandwiches or scones with cream to ward off that "sinking feeling"!

A manly man might embrace some hot lapsang souchong or oolong in the afternoon and he might even drink from a dainty china cup with fine manners. But as the afternoon heat blasts on or the winter snows blind him, he will deny himself the delicate morsels of the fairer sex, and march on, march on, to dinner.

Keith Wilson
08-24-2009, 03:02 PM
Keemun Yi Ji with milk and sugar in a Yixiang lizard mug, thank you.

http://ep.yimg.com/ip/I/yhst-72110197595672_2058_23979747

As far as the orignal subject goes, just pick out the damn fly, shaddup and drink your tea. It won't kill you. ;)

downthecreek
08-24-2009, 03:09 PM
Up the creek a bit.

She sought him east, she sought him west,
She sought him braid and narrow,
Till in the clintin of a craig,
She found him drown'd in Yarrow.


Oh, cam' ye by yon waterside
Pu' ed ye the rose or lily?
Or cam' ye by yon meadow green,
Or saw ye my sweet Willie?

Songs my granny taught me. :)

PS In granny's version, she socht him high, she socht him lay (rather than east or west)

downthecreek
08-24-2009, 03:11 PM
Which brings us back to tea.

I enjoy tea, but have never had a "tea" that I would consider manly much less macho.


The real mark of the real man is that he doesn't worry himself in the slightest about what may, or may not, be "manly". :)

Kaa
08-24-2009, 03:15 PM
Keemun Yi Ji with milk and sugar in a Yixiang lizard mug, thank you.

I drank a lot of Keemun Mao Feng for almost a year, but then got tired of it...

But milk and sugar! That's barbarous!

The Brits started adding milk to tea because they couldn't get enough of proper Chinese tea and had to use Assam which could get rather overwhelming (and comes from a different subspecies of the tea plant, anyway). And Assam with milk can be not bad -- without sugar, of course...

But for proper red tea like a Keemun -- why would it need milk? You might as well start to add milk to Darjeelings X-)

Kaa

Kaa
08-24-2009, 03:18 PM
I enjoy tea, but have never had a "tea" that I would consider manly much less macho.

Well, I usually don't think of tea as being manly or feminine, but teas such as Assams or Lapsang Souchong would be rather yang, while, say, white teas would be quite yin...

Kaa

downthecreek
08-24-2009, 03:27 PM
But for proper red tea like a Keemun -- why would it need milk? You might as well start to add milk to Darjeelings X-)

Kaa

Oh dear. All these poncy "hobby" teas. Can't be doing with them. 'Specially not the China teas. Like drinking cardboard. Blow that for a game of soldiers! No thanks, mate!

Nice cup of Twinings English Breakfast with a drop of milk and no sugar. That's the stuff real men drink! Can't beat it! No teabags, mind. Proper leaf tea, don't forget to warm the pot and the water has to be boiling. BOILING I say! Imagine getting a teabag this side of the room and some hot water over on the other side and calling that TEA! Tea. I ask you.....:(

When I makes tea I makes tea and when I makes water I makes water and, please God, not in the same pot! :)

(Bob Roberts, last skipper of a Thames sailing barge carrying cargo (the Cambria) used to refer to the ship taking a little water as "making a drop o' tea")

pefjr
08-24-2009, 03:32 PM
If the Brits hadn't a been so greedy with them taxes on the tea, we wouldn't had to be so macho, we could a been manly.

Kaa
08-24-2009, 03:38 PM
Oh dear. All these poncy "hobby" teas. Can't be doing with them. 'Specially not the China teas. Like drinking cardboard. Blow that for a game of soldiers! No thanks, mate!

Why "hobby" teas? The US has no tea tradition of its own, so there is no umm... authenticity to some sorts of tea while others are relegated to the poncy land :-) As to China teas, I would urge you to find and taste some good ones (what they give you in a Chinese restaurant doesn't count). If you like English Breakfast (which is a mix, half and half, of Assam and Ceylon), try a Keemun, or maybe a Yunnan. Oolongs and green teas are rather different.

And, by all means, use loose leaf and boiling water :-)

Kaa

pefjr
08-24-2009, 03:39 PM
http://www.lipton.com/_common/img/logo-lipton.jpg (http://www.lipton.com/) and lemonade

Kaa
08-24-2009, 03:44 PM
http://www.lipton.com/_common/img/logo-lipton.jpg (http://www.lipton.com/)

Used to be decent. Not any more (at least what's sold in the US).

Kaa

downthecreek
08-24-2009, 03:59 PM
If the Brits hadn't a been so greedy with them taxes on the tea, we wouldn't had to be so macho, we could a been manly.

Americans can't make proper tea. Never could. I don't care how many people you are catering for, tea is NOT made by pouring the leaves into cold, salty water. That's where you went wrong, mate, do you see. You didn't even bother to warm the harbour first!

Bl**dy barbarians! :rolleyes:

C. Ross
08-24-2009, 04:13 PM
Sir, you are inconsistent.


The real mark of the real man is that he doesn't worry himself in the slightest about what may, or may not, be "manly". :)


Oh dear. All these poncy "hobby" teas. Can't be doing with them. 'Specially not the China teas. Like drinking cardboard. Blow that for a game of soldiers! No thanks, mate!

Nice cup of Twinings English Breakfast with a drop of milk and no sugar. That's the stuff real men drink! Can't beat it! ...

Yes, the real man is confident even in the most violet and lace-encrusted room (though watchful for feminine traps and wiles that may be hidden in the twee camoflauge).

But the aforementioned European women who find dick swinging amusing are not allured by the man who seeks the delicate refuge of the tea room.

Good god. I think I'm channelling Jeeves...

downthecreek
08-24-2009, 04:13 PM
Why "hobby" teas? The US has no tea tradition of its own, so there is no umm... authenticity to some sorts of tea while others are relegated to the poncy land :-)

Kaa

You are right, of course. Tea does, in fact, play an important (and unifying) role in British life. To offer someone a cup of tea, or to share one, is a proper social ritual. A cup of tea is a gesture of welcome, of comfort, of consolation (few problems cannot be ameliorated by a nice cup of tea), of friendship, of reconciliation, of rest, of reinvigoration. If you go somewhere - for a meeting, an interview, a visit to a relative in hospital, a social call.... and you are not offered "so much as a cup of tea", that is truly a cause for grievance.

Tea is a great leveller. Of course, there are many variations (afternoon tea; builders' tea, a tea party, high tea, tea at the Ritz, tea at Fortnums, a tea dance, a tea break....) but it will almost always be Indian tea, possibly with the choice of Earl Grey (which I dislike) if the setting is posh. Tea is tea and it will be much the same whether taken with a Duchess or a plumber.

So the teas you mention will always be poncy hobby teas to us stolid souls (although none the worse for that) I've had many of them, but want none of them. Tea is so much more than just tea..... :)

downthecreek
08-24-2009, 04:23 PM
Sir, you are inconsistent.
.

No, sir. I merely mock the fond conceits of those who presume to define what is, or is not, manly.

I think you will find that the tea room may hold an irresistible allure for the gentleman who is certain of his manlitude. Therein, he may discover not only ladies a-plenty, but also scones with clotted cream and home made strawberry jam. Ladies AND scones! Truly, an embarrassment of riches! Many a fine, upstanding, manly man, my dear sir, has been seduced by the pleasures of the tea room! :)

downthecreek
08-24-2009, 04:25 PM
Used to be decent. Not any more (at least what's sold in the US).

Kaa

Aaaarrrggghhh! Please! NO!

Old Sir Thomas would turn in his grave. :(

Kaa
08-24-2009, 04:28 PM
So the teas you mention will always be poncy hobby teas to us stolid souls (although none the worse for that) I've had many of them, but want none of them. Tea is so much more than just tea..... :)

Well, yeah, it helps that in the UK you can actually order and get a decent cup of tea :-) In the US I basically gave up trying, because if you ask for tea, invariably you get a small teapot with lukewarm water and a teabag sitting next to it. In a fancier place you get a selection of teabags, but still the same lukewarm water which is entirely useless. So basically I don't drink tea unless I make it myself. And since the 'net allows you to get a variety of good and interesting teas easily, I tend to experiment with new teas.

Though today I had a tea you'd approve of :-) -- a classic rich Assam.

Kaa

Captain Intrepid
08-24-2009, 04:30 PM
Me, I prefer to stick with the real McCoy. The cup that cheers but does not inebriate! That's the ticket! :)

Not that there's anything wrong with a spot of whiskey in the tea... :D Always loved a good cuppa.

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
08-24-2009, 04:31 PM
http://www.scotlandrevealed.co.uk/rosieimagessmall/199_willow_tearoom.jpg

http://www.designmuseum.org/media/item/4379/-1/114_6Lg.jpg

C. Ross
08-24-2009, 04:49 PM
No, sir. I merely mock the fond conceits of those who presume to define what is, or is not, manly.

I think you will find that the tea room may hold an irresistible allure for the gentleman who is certain of his manlitude. Therein, he may discover not only ladies a-plenty, but also scones with clotted cream and home made strawberry jam. Ladies AND scones! Truly, an embarrassment of riches! Many a fine, upstanding, manly man, my dear sir, has been seduced by the pleasures of the tea room! :)

I concede. But I draw the line at "manlitude" as a proper adjective for a manly man.

pefjr
08-24-2009, 05:39 PM
Only sissy boys drink tea. A bit light in the loafers they are. If I drank tea I sure wouldn't broadcast it all over the www.:rolleyes: (http://www.:rolleyes:)
I have been trying to tell em that all day, but they are hooked. Must be the caffeine. The Brits stole it from the Chinese medicinal shaman and turned in into an act of manhood.

I want to try the smoked variety though.

Flying Orca
08-24-2009, 05:41 PM
I concede. But I draw the line at "manlitude" as a proper adjective for a manly man.

Er, wouldn't it be a noun?

The Bigfella
08-24-2009, 06:12 PM
All this talk about tea... and no mention of the best tea in the world... billy tea.

Here's a guy who describes it well.... and while you are at it, his next story down is well worth the reading time too

Make a cuppa and enjoy...

http://holtieshouse.blogspot.com/2008/09/billy-tea-and-damper.html

Ron Williamson
08-24-2009, 06:23 PM
Manliness, perhaps,or maybe masculinity.
Whatever.
My grandpa drank tea all the time.
Red Rose with a splash of Carnation.
A farmer,trucker and brickie, with fingers like friggin' bananas,he could have crushed the wee china cups with a twitch.
When he was older, it was tea and a healthy splash of lemon gin(pronounced "yin")first thing in the morning,because "It gift me power."
R

The Bigfella
08-24-2009, 06:29 PM
I used to be a big tea drinker (and occasional fly swallower) - but the damn stuff is high in salycilates.... and having had one anaphylaxis episode... some things just had to go from the diet. Had a couple of cups the other day when the coffee ran out though..

pefjr
08-24-2009, 06:40 PM
Mormons, ( that funny religious group)were forbidden to drink tea, but they found the Paiute Indians had a tea of their own, a desert shrub called Whorehouse Tea. That tea was OK with their god, Joseph Smith, and so they renamed it Mormon Tea. Its not bad.

I have made tea from a small spearmint plant that grows along the creek in Idaho and its very good.

downthecreek
08-25-2009, 02:21 AM
Must be the caffeine. The Brits stole it from the Chinese medicinal shaman and turned in into an act of manhood.



And still this obsession with "manliness".......:rolleyes:

Sometimes, my dear sir, a cigar is just a cigar. And a cup of tea is just that - a nice cup of tea. :)

downthecreek
08-25-2009, 02:39 AM
I concede. But I draw the line at "manlitude" as a proper adjective for a manly man.

You don't like my nice new word? Shame.....

(It is a noun, btw. The associated adjective is "manlitudinous") ;)

C. Ross
08-25-2009, 06:20 AM
You don't like my nice new word? Shame.....

(It is a noun, btw. The associated adjective is "manlitudinous") ;)

Wild Orca already caught my grammar faux pas. It was a slip in the heat of the moment. I admire the inventive spirit, but its efficacy needs testing. Hmmm...let's try...

"certain of his... manlitude... manificence... mandom... mantasticness... manness...

or the more conventional

...manliness... manhood...

Congratulations! I'd say "manlitude" stands up pretty well to the upstanding "manliness" or the firm reliable "manhood", although "manificence" might provide some stiff competition. :D

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
08-25-2009, 06:44 AM
Manatee?

Flying Orca
08-25-2009, 07:17 AM
I'm liking "mantasticness", or perhaps "mantasticity".

pefjr
08-25-2009, 08:59 AM
You don't like my nice new word? Shame.....

(It is a noun, btw. The associated adjective is "manlitudinous") ;)I like your new word, but the word that worries me a little is your use of "dear". For ex. "Oh Dear" or "My Dear Sir". Those words have a ring of "sissy", often used to describe the Brit by the "Macho" crowd. Perhaps you can ease my mind with an explanation of your choice of that word. I don't think so much when I hear "OL Chap". Is it associated with the tea ritual? Maybe a regional word like the southern "Y'all come back, now"?

How bout you Bobbys, when you are in your "British Phase",does your manner of speaking include these words, "Oh Dear" , "My Dear Sir"????

downthecreek
08-25-2009, 09:21 AM
I like your new word, but the word that worries me a little is your use of "dear". For ex. "Oh Dear" or "My Dear Sir". Those words have a ring of "sissy", often used to describe the Brit by the "Macho" crowd.

My dear sir! I cannot tell you how it distresses me that you should be troubled! What is worse, I can do nothing to soothe that distress.

Because, as far as I am concerned, the "macho crowd" of whom you speak, who, as far as I am concerned, are nothing but a gang of mindless adolescents, can go f**ck themselves with a broken bottle.

If and when they grow up (and I am not holding my breath) they may find that it really isn't necessary to be continually asserting their manlitude by swaggering around, swinging their dicks at all and sundry like small time gang leaders. Until then, I'm afraid the grown ups will not be much disposed to take their "opinions" (otherwise known as childish stereotypes) at all seriously.

I trust this answers your question, my dear sir? :D

C. Ross
08-25-2009, 09:23 AM
Manic

downthecreek
08-25-2009, 09:24 AM
Manic

Playing :)

pefjr
08-25-2009, 09:29 AM
My dear sir! I cannot tell you how it distresses me that you should be troubled! What is worse, I can do nothing to soothe that distress.

Because, as far as I am concerned, the "macho crowd" of whom you speak, who, as far as I am concerned, are nothing but a gang of mindless adolescents, can go f**ck themselves with a broken bottle.

If and when they grow up (and I am not holding my breath) they may find that it really isn't necessary to be continually asserting their manlitude by swaggering around, swinging their dicks at all and sundry like small time gang leaders. Until then, I'm afraid the grown ups will not be much disposed to take their "opinions" (otherwise known as childish stereotypes) at all seriously.

I trust this answers your question, my dear sir? :Dyes mamm

Andrew Craig-Bennett
08-25-2009, 09:37 AM
Other odd English usages:

"I'm sorry ..." ( = "I'm not sorry at all; I'm gloating at your discomfiture")

"Would you be so kind..." (="Get out of my way")

"Excuse me" (="Get out of my way NOW")

"Your obedient servant" ("Which you know damn well I am not!" - the Duke of Wellington)

and the greatest insult in the language - "My dear good woman!"

Tom Montgomery
08-25-2009, 09:43 AM
Unfortunately there are Americans who think that British mannerisms and tastes are sissy... unless you're cursing and spitting like Johnny Lydon.

downthecreek
08-25-2009, 09:43 AM
and the greatest insult in the language - "My dear good woman!"

Sir, you are a cad and a bounder. Possibly, even, a rotter! ;)

downthecreek
08-25-2009, 09:47 AM
Unfortunately there are Americans who think that British mannerisms and tastes are sissy... unless you're cursing and spitting like Johnny Lydon.

Yup. We've got one here, it seems. I put it down, not least, to lack of exposure to other ways of doing things and idioms of language. Also, of course, to lack of comprehension of the satirical and self mocking ways in which the English language is sometimes used in it's native place.

Kaa
08-25-2009, 09:56 AM
You dahlings continue your explorations of manlitudinousity, while I go make myself a cuppa... :D

Kaa

Andrew Craig-Bennett
08-25-2009, 09:56 AM
I caught the estimable Stephen Fry (a living national treasure, like Joanna Lumley) on Radio 4 this morning investigating the word "hello".

He contends that our national greeting was "How now" (requiring no response) for several hundred years, with "What cheer?) (requiring a response) from the 1400s onwards (and still in use today - "Wotcha!") but that from the 1800's the term Holla or Halloo (from the medieval hunting field) modulates into "Hello" in the United States, from where it was brought back to Britain by Charles Dickens (who uses it in "A Christmas Carol") and finally, thanks to the efforts of Thomas Edison who promoted it as the word to use when initiating a conversation on the telephone (as opposed to Alexander Graham Bell's suggestion of "Ahoy!") it becomes the standard greeting that requires no response.

I also learned that a British Airways stewardess will greet you with "Hello" unless she thinks you are good looking, in which case she will say "Good Morning"!

pefjr
08-25-2009, 10:00 AM
My word!!!!

I have known some Aussies (long ago)that question those mannerisms.

Heavens to Betsy!

downthecreek
08-25-2009, 10:01 AM
yes mamm

Poor spelling, I'm afraid. It is generally spelled "ma'am".

Now, think carefully. I am, without a doubt, a fully paid up member of one of the major genders. But are you quite sure you know which? :rolleyes:

downthecreek
08-25-2009, 10:03 AM
You dahlings continue your explorations of manlitudinousity, while I go make myself a cuppa... :D

Kaa

I like it. Manlitude and the study of manlitude. Perhaps an alternative term could be "manlitudinology"? :)

downthecreek
08-25-2009, 10:05 AM
I caught the estimable Stephen Fry (a living national treasure, like Joanna Lumley) on Radio 4 this morning investigating the word "hello".


Missed that, dammit! I heard the trailer, but wasn't in the car (which is where almost all my Radio 4 listening takes place) when it happened.

I like the "wotcha" snippet. :)

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
08-25-2009, 10:05 AM
This is priceless, first we get ACB trying to teach them about France and the French, and now we get - really no kidding - Downthecreek doing Satyr and Irony 101 - AKA Hot Enough For Ducks?

downthecreek
08-25-2009, 10:06 AM
Heavens to Betsy!

By Jove, I think he's getting it! :)

downthecreek
08-25-2009, 10:08 AM
Satyr

Truly, sir, a worthy use of our glorious native tongue ;)

C. Ross
08-25-2009, 10:12 AM
Stephen Fry is as queer as a backwards clock, but there's nothing "unmanly" about him.

I'm weary of the "sneer at Red America" gang, but demeaning British culture for its civility makes us look less manly than maniac.

pefjr
08-25-2009, 10:14 AM
Poor spelling, I'm afraid. It is generally spelled "ma'am".

Now, think carefully. I am, without a doubt, a fully paid up member of one of the major genders. But are you quite sure you know which? :rolleyes:Judging from your Abraham picture, I'm sure. What would ma'am originate from? I was going by your own statement that you are unconcerned about proving any manliness. I thought you would be the one that would not be bothered by my question, and maybe you can tell us why those words do not mean the same as in macho land. But if'n you are all riled up, forgetaboutit.

Kaa
08-25-2009, 10:17 AM
... in macho land.

Macho land! Pray tell, where is this place located?


...forgetaboutit.

Dude, you're not from Brooklyn, so don't even try :D

Kaa

pefjr
08-25-2009, 10:25 AM
"you're not from Brooklyn, so don't even try".

Flatbushavenue

Kaa
08-25-2009, 10:29 AM
"you're not from Brooklyn, so don't even try".

Flatbushavenue

Seems like you time in Las Vegas caused you to lose the ability to spell and probably pronounce words properly :D

http://thebsreport.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/leaving-brooklyn-sign.jpg

:D

Kaa

pefjr
08-25-2009, 10:30 AM
Kaa

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmFN9C9PVpg

downthecreek
08-25-2009, 10:31 AM
Judging from your Abraham picture, I'm sure. What would ma'am originate from? I was going by your own statement that you are unconcerned about proving any manliness. I thought you would be the one that would not be bothered by my question, and maybe you can tell us why those words do not mean the same as in macho land. But if'n you are all riled up, forgetaboutit.

Just for you, I shall try to address you without irony, satire or self mockery, as these modes have proved mighty confusing for you.....

My "Abraham" picture? You mean the magnificent British engineer (French father, though, I believe) Isambard Kingdom Brunel? Did you think it was Abraham Lincoln? He (Brunel) is certainly someone for whom I have the greatest admiration.

I am, indeed, quite unconcerned about proving any "manliness" and the opinions of people living in what you call "macho land" are of absolutely no concern to me. I think they are very childish and, often, rather comical.

It is clear to me that it would be impossible to explain to you the idioms of irony, satire and self mockery that seem to have you baffled. Perhaps you are like my brother-in-law, who always used to complain that, when in Britain, he couldn't understand a word anyone was saying. He certainly didn't seem to comprehend when people were, or were not, serious - something that is perfectly evident to the natives. Conversely, I often find the apparent solemnity and literalism of American discourse very odd. However, I have the advantage of spending quite a lot of time in America, so I am used to it.

As far as being "riled up" is concerned - well there is a case in point. I am, as it is sometimes expressed on this side of the Atlantic, "'aving a laff!" :) (A good one!)

Andrew Craig-Bennett
08-25-2009, 10:33 AM
"There was a young man of St John's
Who wanted to xxxxxx the swans;
Cried the loyal Hall-Porter,
"Sir! Take my daughter!
Them swans is reserved for the Dons!"

Algernon Charles Swinburne

Kaa
08-25-2009, 10:34 AM
Kaa

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmFN9C9PVpg


Frank Vitale: Here, try this, "Hey, fuggeddabout it!"
Michael Felgate: Hey, forget about it!
Frank Vitale: No, like this, "Hey, fuggeddabout it!" Change you T's to D's.
Michael Felgate: Hey, fuggeddaboud id!
Frank Vitale: Id?
Michael Felgate: You said change Ts to Ds!
Frank Vitale: Not the last one! OK, forget that one, try this one, "Get the hell outta here." No Rs.
Michael Felgate: Get the hail outta hee.
Frank Vitale: Not hee! Heah!
Michael Felgate: Hee!
Frank Vitale: Here.
[Hands Michael a pistol]
Frank Vitale: Stick it in your pants, maybe you'll look the part. (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0130121/)

:D

downthecreek
08-25-2009, 10:34 AM
"There was a young man of St John's
Who wanted to xxxxxx the swans;
Cried the loyal Hall-Porter,
"Sir! Take my daughter!
Them swans is reserved for the Dons!"

Algernon Charles Swinburne

:D:D

pefjr
08-25-2009, 10:44 AM
"Perhaps you are like my brother-in-law, who always used to complain that, when in Britain, he couldn't understand a word anyone was saying."

That happened to me in Brooklyn.

Americans love to hear the British accent even when we can't understand a word.

Kaa
08-25-2009, 11:01 AM
Americans love to hear the British accent even when we can't understand a word.

Well, there are a LOT of British accents :D The standard BBC one, aka the upper-class London/Oxford/Cambridge one presents no problems to an American ear. But if you get into the boonies or, worse yet, start talking to Irish or Scots... :eek:

Kaa

downthecreek
08-25-2009, 11:10 AM
Americans love to hear the British accent even when we can't understand a word.

Believe me, it's more than just accent. British people play with words all the time. Much is said without being said, if you see what I mean. Very often, British people will discuss serious matters in quite (apparently) light-hearted ways and will also seem to be serious about things when they are actually joking. The boundary between the serious and the humorous is much less distinct on this side of the Atlantic than it is over there. And, as Andrew has pointed out, what is said and what is meant are often two very different things. If I address you as "my dear sir", for example, you can be quite sure this is mockery - both of you and of myself. Any Brit will understand that, but foreigners may not.

If you read some of the "classic" English novels (Austen, perhaps, or, much later, Dickens, for example) you will see this mode of communication all the time. And if anyone in England is elaborately polite to you, look out.........;)

America has its own habits and idioms of communication and they are very, very different. Truly to countries separated by a common language, as Churchill so rightly suggested.

It is a pity, though, to build stereotypes on these differences - such as the "macho/sissy" one. Mind you, I don't take much notice of them, because they do say more about the people doing the projecting than the people upon whom the projections are focused. Stereotyping is just a lazy way of defining your own self image. It's all a great help to the film industry, of course - invincible, macho Yanks, foppish "Hugh Grant" type Brits, evil, cunning Germans, cowardly Frenchmen etc. We all know what to expect. But that's about all it's good for. :)

pefjr
08-25-2009, 12:03 PM
Abe, ;)

"a British tea phase?. And you got a punch in your man card ? " my original post

There is also a friendly "needling" that is common. That "kidding" is only with a likable friend or foe, not meant as a disrespect or building a stereotype. Its just a poke in the ribs, American style. A love pat or an aggravation with a wink to get a reaction. As I read a few Brit posts, my post had a two fold purpose , but I have not heard from the one that had a "British Phase." He is strangely quiet, but I don't think I injured his machismo.

downthecreek
08-25-2009, 12:27 PM
Abe, ;)

He is strangely quiet, but I don't think I injured his machismo.

I don't think so either. The bloke was "'avin' a laff" too, methinks.

You ain't serious, I ain't serious. What is left to fight about? :)

Oh, and by the way, I take "Abe" as a compliment. A fine man who should never have been persuaded by his wife to attend a sissy place of entertainment like the theatre..... ;)

Now, my dear sir, I suggest that we "kiss and make up". I feel entirely confident that you will receive this timid proposal in precisely the spirit in which it is intended..... :)

C. Ross
08-25-2009, 12:53 PM
Believe me, it's more than just accent. British people play with words all the time. Much is said without being said, if you see what I mean. Very often, British people will discuss serious matters in quite (apparently) light-hearted ways and will also seem to be serious about things when they are actually joking. The boundary between the serious and the humorous is much less distinct on this side of the Atlantic than it is over there.

Recently our family checked in to a hotel in York. SWMBO and I have different last names, so in front of our teenage daughters the clerk solemnly intoned "Oh dear, we aren't keen on adulterers here.". I was not sure whether we were about to have a Fawlty Towers moment.

I told the man that I happened to have our children's birth certificates which would prove they were not conceived in sin. He eyeballed me, then SWMBO, then me and said something like "No, it's clearly obvious that's not likely."

We proceeded through a very pleasant checkin and at the end asked me what paper we'd like. "The Guardian" I said. Under his breath he muttered "Dear God, socialist adulterers..."

Yes, we enjoyed our stay very much.

pefjr
08-25-2009, 01:21 PM
Funny

Speculation concerning Bobbys:

The fly got stuck in his throat.
He is preparing a multi post- 30 was his last - a record.
He may be out on a British Tea shopping phase for aprons and such.
He is out fishing- the edible kind.
He has French quests and can't run them away.
He is laughing so hard at our expense he can't type.

pcford
08-25-2009, 01:40 PM
Your British phase requires that your tea should be sweetened with honey?

Now that IS curious. :)

Nasty too. Maybe herb tea or some lame non tea...but not REAL tea. Disgusting.

C. Ross
08-25-2009, 01:44 PM
Speculation concerning Bobbys:

...

He is laughing so hard at our expense he can't type.

Bravo bobbys. He must be the manliest among us.

bobbys
08-25-2009, 01:45 PM
Funny

Speculation concerning Bobbys:

The fly got stuck in his throat.
He is preparing a multi post- 30 was his last - a record.
He may be out on a British Tea shopping phase for aprons and such.
He is out fishing- the edible kind.
He has French quests and can't run them away.
He is laughing so hard at our expense he can't type..

I yam building up the Courage to ask Downthe Mersey, Why the Beatles sang in a No English accent.

Im copying Rush as he talks to send to Norman.

Im very hurt by the replies to my honey post so went to the store to buy Brown sugar {im on a Heath kick} to put in my tea.

Filleted a Chinook Salmon and a Ling cod right off the boat in exchange for fixing said boat..

Caught another fly and to prove my manhood to Keith i licked the honey off him.

Went shopping for Brooks brothers outfits.

Got in the English spirit of things and downloaded pics of Elizabeth Hurley to put up next to Ann Coulter{ flying orca dunno thinks i knows who she is cause i dunno know me Queens but i knows her and Diana Rigg Allright}:D

Keith Wilson
08-25-2009, 02:40 PM
Caught another fly and to prove my manhood to Keith i licked the honey off him.My dear sir, that's ever so much better! :D

downthecreek
08-25-2009, 03:37 PM
My dear sir, that's ever so much better! :D

Good try, dear boy, but not quite....not quite......???

"My dear sir" and "ever so" don't quite fit together I'm afraid. These two expressions, both excellent, authentic Britishisms in their way, are...now, how shall I put it....? Not quite out of the same vernacular drawer..... ;)

downthecreek
08-25-2009, 03:42 PM
.

I yam building up the Courage to ask Downthe Mersey, Why the Beatles sang in a No English accent.


I hope DowntheMersey will be able to help you with that one, because I'm sure I can't. As far as I know, Scouseland (aka Liverpool) is in England, the Beatles were/are Scousers and they sang/sing in Scouse. Good enough for me. :)

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
08-25-2009, 03:44 PM
.... authentic Britishisms in their way, are...now, how shall I put it....? Not quite out of the same vernacular drawer..... ;)

And now we have an entire Fortum and Mason hamper of worms.


Eh no but?

downthecreek
08-25-2009, 03:47 PM
Recently our family checked in to a hotel in York.

Yes, we enjoyed our stay very much.

Glad you had a good time. Why the Guardian? :)

downthecreek
08-25-2009, 03:50 PM
And now we have an entire Fortum and Mason hamper of worms.


Eh no but?

I had worms at Fortnums once, when very young.

Actually, they were made from chestnut puree and formed part of that delectable concoction, a "Mont Blanc". But at the time, I did think they were worms. :)

Language. I love it!

Keith Wilson
08-25-2009, 03:58 PM
Well, no one would ever mistake me for a Brit; that's certain.

Excellent point in #114, BTW, about how what is said and what is meant are often two very different things. There's a type of British humor which depends on people misunderstanding the unspoken meanings (much of the domestic humor in the Rumpole stories, for a minor example), and to an American - to this American, anyway - it's rather mystifying. One wonders why these obviously intelligent people don't just say what they mean? But then there'd be no story, I suppose.

C. Ross
08-25-2009, 04:02 PM
Why the Guardian? :)

Now, I know that a British gentleman's choice of Guardian, Telegram, Independent or Times pegs one's personality as an American's choice of Fox or CNN, or where I live, Ford or Chevy, does the same. But I'm not British, or a gentleman, so I decided my tastes should be catholic.

In York, I read the Guardian knowing that it would both inform and irritate me.

I was also interested in reading the left of center reaction to the Parliamentary scandals still going on in late June and early July.

In London, I soothed my prejudices with the Telegraph and the Financial Times.

But I also avidly read all the free papers they give away on the subway, because it was fun reading about Murray at Wimbeldon, and London's overheated reaction to 30 degree temperatures.

Crap. I'm doing P.G. Woodhouse again...

pefjr
08-25-2009, 04:04 PM
Has anyone here seen the movie "Ridicule"? I have enjoyed it twice now.

Keith Wilson
08-25-2009, 04:10 PM
. . . or where I live, Ford or Chevy . . .Eh? What does one's choice of Ford or Chevy say about personality or politics in Minnesota? I'm not sure I see much difference. The choice between Ford and Subaru, perhaps . . . .

downthecreek
08-25-2009, 04:31 PM
One wonders why these obviously intelligent people don't just say what they mean? But then there'd be no story, I suppose.

Oh, but we do! Misunderstandings aside (they are an excellent base for comedy in all cultures, including American) British people understand each other very well indeed. We just communicate in a different way from you.

Britons have lived together on a small group of islands for a thousand years without invasion (although with much coming and going) We have had a long time to develop our modes of communication. The USA, by contrast, is an enormous and relatively young country, composed almost entirely of immigrants from every culture under the sun and one in which people are always on the move. As a group of people you have had far less opportunity, or reason, to develop these shared modes of communication. In order to communicate at all, things need to be spelled out. That has certainly been my impression, particularly in California, where discourse always seems to me to be particularly laborious and no-one "plays" with the language in day to day conversation as they do here.

I suspect you will find the same degree of unspoken (but, nevertheless, well understood) communication in most smaller and older cultures. It may not be so convenient for foreigners, but the American way is probably the exception in this respect. You will also find it, I have no doubt, in settled, relatively homogeneous communities in the USA, whose modes of communication will be no less baffling to a British person as "Britspeak" will be to an American. Perhaps they, too, should just "say what they mean". Or maybe that's exactly what they are doing, in their own way.

I'm glad these different ways of thinking, speaking and communicating continue to exist. The world would be a lot less interesting and entertaining without them.

downthecreek
08-25-2009, 04:36 PM
But I also avidly read all the free papers they give away on the subway, because it was fun reading about Murray at Wimbeldon, and London's overheated reaction to 30 degree temperatures.



Ah - we see eye to eye. I love reading other people's newspapers - local even more than national. If I can get hold of some little local rag I am as happy as a sandboy..... Just nosey, I reckon. :)

Keith Wilson
08-25-2009, 04:41 PM
I was speaking of the characters in the stories. The comic value of misunderstandings due to just a little too much understatement and reliance on unspoken communication seems a characteristically British trope. I don't know enough abut other languages to say if it's more widespread.

There aren't many settled, relatively homogeneous communities in the US anymore. You're quire right about the differences in the culture; it's similar to the complicated parts of a language disappearing when it's spoken by lots of people who've learned it as adults.

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
08-25-2009, 04:45 PM
Aye bonnie lad.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zwx0-oewjsM

C. Ross
08-25-2009, 04:49 PM
Eh? What does one's choice of Ford or Chevy say about personality or politics in Minnesota? I'm not sure I see much difference. The choice between Ford and Subaru, perhaps . . . .

Oh dear, that's right, you aren't a native Minnesotan. ;)

In my specific neighborhood, Crocus Hill in St. Paul, the choice is probably Honda or Prius. In Roselville I imagine it's Taurus or Camry?

I have friends from small towns where Ford/Chevy split by Catholic/Lutheran. And in different towns it cuts different ways!

As an extreme I had a coworker from southeastern Minnesota whose father told his brother "not to bring home a Ford girl". That's silly of course, but it's not much different than Packers/Vikings.

pefjr
08-25-2009, 04:53 PM
politically correct winter holiday

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nytkzah78eU&NR=1

C. Ross
08-25-2009, 04:55 PM
Britons have lived together on a small group of islands for a thousand years without invasion (although with much coming and going) We have had a long time to develop our modes of communication.

I have a brother who's lived in Japan for 27 years, much of it in small towns. My oldest daughter is avidly absorbing Chinese, just returning from a four week immersion camp.

I think the Asians have lapped all of us on the meaning embedded in a wink and a nod. Or a flower set in a vase just so.

Keith Wilson
08-25-2009, 04:59 PM
In Roseville I imagine it's Taurus or Camry?
:D Probably right. I've driven both. The political/class distinction may be between a car and a pickup truck or SUV; lots of those in Fridley. "Not bring home a Ford girl . ." Oy - where was that, Lake Wobegon? ;)

Flying Orca
08-25-2009, 05:09 PM
downloaded pics of Elizabeth Hurley to put up next to Ann Coulter{ flying orca dunno thinks i knows who she is cause i dunno know me Queens but i knows her and Diana Rigg Allright}:D

I'm sorry, I'm familiar with neither Ms Hurley nor Ms Allright... :confused:

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
08-25-2009, 05:10 PM
I spent a dozen years working day and daily on computers in Roseville - and have absolutely no idea what the place looks like.
To be fair, other members of the team were based in Sydney, Arizona, Mississippi and Plymouth - spoken communication was error prone.

pefjr
08-25-2009, 05:15 PM
"Ridicule" no one has seen it? I'm surprised, if you like words and language you will like this movie in French with English sub.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ridicule

Keith Wilson
08-25-2009, 05:18 PM
Roseville (http://www.ci.roseville.mn.us/)'s an inner-ring suburb adjoining St. Paul on the north. The oldest houses are mostly from the 1920s, with a lot of development just after the war through the '70s. Mostly residential, little industry, lots of retail, lots of trees. It has pretty good schools, generally low-drama government, and maniacally efficient snow plowing.

C. Ross
08-25-2009, 05:26 PM
"Not bring home a Ford girl . ." Oy - where was that, Lake Wobegon? ;)

Stewartville, Minnesota, near Rochester.

John B
08-25-2009, 06:20 PM
This is priceless, first we get ACB trying to teach them about France and the French, and now we get - really no kidding - Downthecreek doing Satyr and Irony 101 - AKA Hot Enough For Ducks?

Satyr... I've bin laffin for 3 hours about that.

roger Roger.:D


Quite a benign troll ole Bill's got going here.
ps , off to brew a gumboot tea ,with milk and sugar its so bad.

downthecreek
08-26-2009, 08:35 AM
I was speaking of the characters in the stories. The comic value of misunderstandings due to just a little too much understatement and reliance on unspoken communication seems a characteristically British trope.

Understatement may be a "British trope", but, really, its not very different from the laconic style of the ubiquitous American stereotype - the hero of the wild west or the battlefield - I would have thought. (Really quite "manly" ;)) I smiled when I read your post, because I had just been talking with a friend who had today. returned from a rough and windy crossing of the North Sea in a 25 footer. "How was it?"....."Well, you know....a bit bumpy....."

As C Ross has pointed out, when it comes to unspoken communication, the Japanese and Chinese have us well beaten. I might also refer you to a couple of books (don't have the details to hand, but could get them) I have read recently by British people (fluent Italian speakers) living in Venice.....Phew! Those Venetians could teach us a thing or to. Maybe it all seems very British because we speak a language that has many striking similarities with your own, so profound cultural differences, of which there are many, stand out a mile.

oznabrag
08-26-2009, 08:51 AM
I'm sorry, I'm familiar with neither Ms Hurley nor Ms Allright... :confused:

Neither am I, but I wouldn't mind becoming so! ;)

oznabrag
08-26-2009, 08:54 AM
...(snip)... he will deny himself the delicate morsels of the fairer sex...

I have rarely been able to deny myself delicate morsels of the fairer sex.

Does this make me a sissy? :cool:

Keith Wilson
08-26-2009, 08:56 AM
but, really, its not very different from the laconic style of the ubiquitous American stereotype - the hero of the wild west or the battlefield - I would have thought.Quite different, IMHO. The stereotypical laconic American is not communicating by shared unspoken understanding - he's just not saying much, and communicating very little.

The Chinese and Japanese have indeed gone much further in that direction. Perhaps it's a function of the age and homogeneity of the culture. Such things take time to develop.

downthecreek
08-26-2009, 09:12 AM
Quite different, IMHO. The stereotypical laconic American is not communicating by shared unspoken understanding - he's just not saying much, and communicating very little.


Now there I do disagree. Most of those laconic utterances seem to me, when combined with the body language and the context, to be redolent with meaning and emotion. What they lack - and this is where the main difference lies - is the touch of wry self deprecation that is inherent in most examples of the British version. American heroes of prairie and battlefield are not known for their self deprecation!

C. Ross
08-26-2009, 09:27 AM
I have rarely been able to deny myself delicate morsels of the fairer sex.

Does this make me a sissy? :cool:

Depends. Do you keep a napkin in your lap and point your pinkie finger?

Kaa
08-26-2009, 09:58 AM
Oh, by the way, would the esteemed British gentlemen present care to express an opinion on the tea-into-milk vs. the milk-into-tea issue?

Kaa

pefjr
08-26-2009, 10:08 AM
I am having a bit of a fit, can't find lapsong souchong in the normal tea isles of the Grocery. Where would it be? Oriental market? Mail order?

downthecreek
08-26-2009, 10:10 AM
Oh, by the way, would the esteemed British gentlemen present care to express an opinion on the tea-into-milk vs. the milk-into-tea issue?

Kaa

That's simple. Milk first. No question. :)

downthecreek
08-26-2009, 10:11 AM
I am having a bit of a fit, can't find lapsong souchong in the normal tea isles of the Grocery. Where would it be? Oriental market? Mail order?

Give it up. Horrible stuff. :)

Andrew Craig-Bennett
08-26-2009, 10:15 AM
I concur with the last two posts. :)

Adding the milk first avoids staining the china and ensures the milk is evenly dispersed; anyone who enjoys the taste of kippers with their tea is advised to eat the kippers and drink the tea, rather than to combine the two operations.

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
08-26-2009, 10:18 AM
That's simple. Milk first. No question. :)

You just have to squeeze it from the tube..
http://i23.ebayimg.com/01/i/000/d9/66/8974_2.JPG

C. Ross
08-26-2009, 10:29 AM
American heroes of prairie and battlefield are not known for their self deprecation!

Hold on there pardner!

(Or for our British friends, steady on.)

The apex of American confidence is indeed played out in stories of the prairie and battlefield, but there are many different flavors here.

For World War II icons, compare John Wayne and Audie Murphy. Wayne's movies are better known (and arguably better) but Murphy's character was quite definitely self-deprecatory. And he was an authentic decorated war hero. A snip from wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audie_Murphy):



Murphy's 1949 autobiography To Hell and Back became a national bestseller. In the book, actually ghostwritten by his friend David "Spec" McClure, already a professional writer[10] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audie_Murphy#cite_note-9) Murphy modestly described some of his most heroic actions without portraying himself as a hero. Not once does he mention any of the many decorations he received for his incredible combat exploits. Instead, he chose to praise the skills, bravery, and dedication of the other soldiers in his platoon. Murphy even attributed a song he had written to "Kerrigan".[11] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audie_Murphy#cite_note-10)
Murphy played himself in the 1955 film version of his book with the same title, To Hell and Back (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_Hell_and_Back_(film)).[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audie_Murphy#cite_note-imdb-1) The film grossed almost ten million dollars during its initial theatrical release, and at the time became Universal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Studios)'s biggest hit of the studio's 43-year history. This movie held the record as the company's highest-grossing motion picture until 1975, when it was surpassed by Steven Spielberg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Spielberg)'s Jaws (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaws_(film)).[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audie_Murphy#cite_note-imdb-1) Terry Murphy, who played younger brother Joe Preston Murphy (at age four), is in fact Murphy's older son.
Audie was reluctant to star in To Hell and Back, fearing it would appear he was cashing in on his war experience, so he suggested his role be played by Tony Curtis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Curtis).


For movies and literature of the prairie, the braggadicio of Louis L'Amour and John Wayne are well known, but also consider the reluctant Alan Ladd in Shane or the laconic Gary Cooper in High Noon or Jimmy Stewart in any of his westerns.

Keith Wilson
08-26-2009, 10:30 AM
I am having a bit of a fit, can't find lapsong souchong in the normal tea isles of the Grocery. Where would it be? Oriental market? Mail order?
Don't bother about Lapsang Souchong. It's unpleasant; very, very smoky tasting. Here's where I buy my tea, (http://teasource.com/) but for me they're local.

downthecreek
08-26-2009, 10:30 AM
You just have to squeeze it from the tube..
http://i23.ebayimg.com/01/i/000/d9/66/8974_2.JPG

I believe, sir, that you currently inhabit Wales?

It is possible that some explanation for your vile barbarism may be deduced from that lamentable circumstance. :eek:

downthecreek
08-26-2009, 10:42 AM
Hold on there pardner!



For the record, I don't promote self deprecation as a virtue - just a fact.

I'm afraid I don't really know a lot about "westerns" (or, indeed about films generally, unless they appear on TV at a time when I happen to be in watching mood) However, now you come to mention it, I do remember seeing, quite recently, a wonderful film with Jimmy Stewart in it, in which he is the son of a notoriously tough father and has, much against his will, to take on the job of "cleaning up" some town. It has Marlene Dietrich in it, includes the song "See what the boys in the backroom will have" and is delightfully entertaining! Can't remember the name though.

What was really in my mind's eye, however, was something more "Clint Eastwood". All brooding silence and narrowed eyes on the far horizon.....

I do think, though, that the tendency to self deprecation, as opposed to self promotion, is a genuine cultural difference. Certainly not an indicator of any kind of superiority, though.

downthecreek
08-26-2009, 10:47 AM
anyone who enjoys the taste of kippers with their tea is advised to eat the kippers and drink the tea, rather than to combine the two operations.

I don't think the poor, deprived creatures have kippers, do they? Not the real ones, anyway. An American lady of both our acquaintances who stays chez nous from time time was all agog and a-fluster when first introduced to them. I don't think she appreciated the bones.

It wasn't for lack of courage, either. Anyone willing to tackle the Brandy Hole Yacht Club's spotted dick could never be accused of that! ;)

C. Ross
08-26-2009, 10:54 AM
What was really in my mind's eye, however, was something more "Clint Eastwood". All brooding silence and narrowed eyes on the far horizon.....

Oh. Well, those are mostly Italian movies, directed by Sergio Leone.


I do think, though, that the tendency to self deprecation, as opposed to self promotion, is a genuine cultural difference. Certainly not an indicator of any kind of superiority, though.

Self deprecation from a truly accomplished person is gracious. From the rest of us it is just a twin sister of passive aggressiveness, and is cloying.

downthecreek
08-26-2009, 10:58 AM
Self deprecation from a truly accomplished person is gracious. From the rest of us it is just a twin sister of passive aggressiveness, and is cloying.

That is an American perspective, I think. Over here, in most cases, it is simply a habit of mind and speech.

oznabrag
08-26-2009, 11:01 AM
Depends. Do you keep a napkin in your lap and point your pinkie finger?

When I am enjoying delicate morsels of the fairer sex, I have found that a napkin in my lap just gets right in the way. Very frustrating.

Oh, and that ain't my finger. :cool:

Kaa
08-26-2009, 11:06 AM
Self deprecation from a truly accomplished person is gracious. From the rest of us it is just a twin sister of passive aggressiveness, and is cloying.

I think self-depreciation is very... multifunctional :-)

It can be gracious. It can be passive-aggressive. It can be funny. It can be coy. It can be a status demonstration. It can be a device to put the other person at ease. Etc., etc...

Kaa

downthecreek
08-26-2009, 11:06 AM
Oh, and that ain't my finger. :cool:

I should damn well hope not! ;)

pefjr
08-26-2009, 11:07 AM
I don't think the poor, deprived creatures have kippers, do they? Not the real ones, anyway. An American lady of both our acquaintances who stays chez nous from time time was all agog and a-fluster when first introduced to them. I don't think she appreciated the bones.

It wasn't for lack of courage, either. Anyone willing to tackle the Brandy Hole Yacht Club's spotted dick could never be accused of that! ;)
We have smoked mullet for breakfast. Real ones

C. Ross
08-26-2009, 11:09 AM
When I am enjoying delicate morsels of the fairer sex, I have found that a napkin in my lap just gets right in the way. Very frustrating.

Oh, and that ain't my finger. :cool:

Good sir, then you are most definitely not a sissy.

Remember to send a hand written thank you note, or flowers.

Edit: Oh, and to return to the original post, be sure to mind your fly, and take care of your honey. <wink>

pefjr
08-26-2009, 11:30 AM
When I am enjoying delicate morsels of the fairer sex, I have found that a napkin in my lap just gets right in the way. Very frustrating.

Oh, and that ain't my finger. :cool:Hold on to that napkin Ozone, when you mature and become more adventurous, you will need it to dab the cheeks a bit.

downthecreek
08-26-2009, 11:32 AM
We have smoked mullet for breakfast. Real ones

Wot? No kippers then?

(Matter of interest, red or grey?)

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
08-26-2009, 11:42 AM
I believe, sir, that you currently inhabit Wales?

It is possible that some explanation for your vile barbarism may be deduced from that lamentable circumstance. :eek:

I think not, it may well be innate.

Keith Wilson
08-26-2009, 11:44 AM
Who need kippers when we have bagels and lox?

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
08-26-2009, 11:47 AM
Who need kippers when we have bagels and lox?

All Man need kipper (http://www.manxkippers.com/) - now available on-line.

downthecreek
08-26-2009, 11:49 AM
Who need kippers when we have bagels and lox?

We have bagels, lox AND kippers (heh heh heh :))

Mind you, I've had bagels from the best bagelateria in New York City and I STILL can't get to love them......:(

downthecreek
08-26-2009, 11:51 AM
I think not, it may well be innate.

Possibly.....possibly....... and, I imagine, quite incurable. So sad..... ;)

oznabrag
08-26-2009, 11:55 AM
Hold on to that napkin Ozone, when you mature and become more adventurous, you will need it to dab the cheeks a bit.

Though I am sorely tempted to respond to your kind advice with a particularly randy observation of my own, in the interest of continuing my sojourn in this Bilge, this august, intellectual powerhouse of elucidation, I feel as though I must demur.

P.S. I'd really appreciate it if you wouldn't refer to me as Ozone. I find it offensive, and it tempts me to find filthy ways to construct P.E.F.J.R.

Thanks in advance.

pefjr
08-26-2009, 12:03 PM
Oznabrag:

Certainly, you should have told me long ago, I apologize.

oznabrag
08-26-2009, 12:04 PM
Oznabrag:

Certainly, you should have told me long ago, I apologize.

Es de nada 'migo.

pefjr
08-26-2009, 12:12 PM
Wot? No kippers then?

(Matter of interest, red or grey?)Striped mullet. The roe is a southern delicacy, fried or smoked.

I remember my grandfather buying mullet and smoked roe off a "rolling store" . He ate them smoked with breakfast eggs and toast. Must have been, early 1950's in southeast Alabama. Years later we caught them in a cast net or speared them with a 3 prong spear. They are large, and fat. Maybe 1 to 1.5 lbs.

bobbys
08-26-2009, 12:16 PM
Postscript.

A few have called me out on sipping tea and talking wit a fake English accent like Madonna So i have Taken to drinking my tea in a Plastic cup that sez.

Horse Heaven Hills Truck stop.

Prosser Wa..

As i drinks me tea i say phrases like.

Waterindahellizzupswitdat????.

BackoFFjack.

JEET.??

Jew??.

Whosentya??.

Going back to my roots and dropping the English accent.

Putting honey back in my tea but Drinkin it BLACK to preserve any bit of macho i still might have..

However i do have a crusty jar of dry creamer on the floor of the truck if no ones looking.

Good stuff it NEVER goes bad going on 4 years now!!!

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
08-26-2009, 12:30 PM
All Man need kipper (http://www.manxkippers.com/) - now available on-line.

Sadly, while you could order they won't deliver to the USA - I suppose I could post a pair.

downthecreek
08-26-2009, 12:30 PM
Striped mullet. The roe is a southern delicacy, fried or smoked.


Sounds, as we say in Sissyville, jolly dee!

Bon appetit! :)

downthecreek
08-26-2009, 12:45 PM
Sadly, while you could order they won't deliver to the USA - I suppose I could post a pair.

Oh, dear. Now I have to post a shaggy dog story.....

Scotsman down in London, in a bar, meets an Englishman.

"I say, old boy, tell me this....Why is it the Scotsmen have all the good jobs in London?"

"Well, that's simple. The Scotsmen ha'e a' the brains"

"They do? Jolly interesting, old boy, Now, why is that?"

"Och, that's simple. The Scotsmen eat the fish"

"And the fish give you better brains?"

"Aye, they do"

"And if I ate fish?"

"Nae doot aboot it. Ye's ha'e a better brain.... No, I'll tell ye what I'll do....Gi'e me five poonds an' I'll send ye five poonds worth o' fish frae Aberdeen..."

"Oh, I say....jolly dee...thanks so much, old boy!"

Five pounds changes hands. Shortly afterwards a pair of kippers arrives from Aberdeen. A couple of months later, the pair meets again......

"Well, d'ye notice the difference?"

"Well, to tell you the truth, old boy, I can't say that I do..."

"Och, ye must persevere! Gi'e me another five poonds an' I'll send ye some mair fish...."

In due course, another pair of kippers arrive from Aberdeen. In a month or so, the couple meets again and the scenario is repeated. This happens several times more.

And so, one day, the couple meets again....

"Well, d'ye notice the difference?"

"To tell you the truth, old boy..."

"Och, ye must persevere...."

Well, I'm sure that's true, old boy, but, really....I must ask you....isn't five pounds an awful lot to pay for a pair of kippers?"

"THERE YE ARE, MON!!! THE FISH ARE BEGINNIN' TAE TELL!"

:)

Keith Wilson
08-26-2009, 12:48 PM
Those Manx kippers are five pounds a pair. :D

pefjr
08-26-2009, 12:48 PM
Sadly, while you could order they won't deliver to the USA - I suppose I could post a pair.

"To smoke the herring, oak chippings are used to fuel the fire, providing the unique and traditional flavour. The fish are smoked for 8-12 hours before cooling, and packaging." from "all man need kipper"

Over the years I have used hickory, mesquite, juniper, cypress, and red cedar. I have never tried oak, but I will now. So far though, I prefer red cedar(green).

downthecreek
08-26-2009, 01:21 PM
Those Manx kippers are five pounds a pair. :DBut the story is at least 50 years old.... :)

pefjr
08-26-2009, 01:43 PM
The lunch menu today in Vegas is simply

A cuppa taro and tamarind soup with two smoked shrimp and a veggie gyoza.
A glass of iced cinnamon red tea.