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johnw
08-17-2009, 07:16 PM
Are they trying to tell us something?




TPM LiveWire

Twelve Carry Guns -- Including Assault Rifle -- Outside Obama Event

By Rachel Slajda (http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/rslajda) - August 17, 2009, 5:54PM


About 12 people were carrying guns (http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/2009/08/man-carrying-an-assault-rifle-and-pistol-outside-obama-event.php), including at least one semi-automatic assault rifle, outside a building where President Obama was speaking (http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/2009/08/obama-at-vfw-convention-afghan-war-fundamental-to-defense.php?ref=fpa) today.
No one was arrested outside the VFW National Convention in Phoenix, according to the Associated Press (http://ktar.com/?nid=6&sid=1200460), where hundreds of people demonstrated both for and against health care reform. There are no reports that the 12 were part of an organized group.
The man spotted carrying the assault rifle (http://www.azcentral.com/community/phoenix/articles/2009/08/17/20090817obama-scene.html) and a pistol, who gave his name only as "Chris", was asked why he was armed. "Because I can do it," he said. "In Arizona, I still have some freedoms." You can watch the video (http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/news/2009/08/video_at_least_one_man_shows_up_with_assault_rifle .php) from ArizonaCentral.com (go to about 1:30). He's being interviewed by a man who's also wearing a handgun.
Two police officers kept close by. Carrying guns, including the AR-15 assault rifle, is legal under Arizona law.
"If we need to intervene, we will intervene at that time," said Detective J. Oliver.
CNN's Ed Henry reported seeing a second man with an assault rifle, but that has not been confirmed.
These reports come less than a week after two people brought guns to a presidential event in Portsmouth, N.H. At Obama's town hall there, one man was arrested (http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/08/man-with-gun-arrested-at-obama-event-yesterday.php) for having a gun hidden in his car after the Secret Service found him at Portsmouth High School hours before Obama arrived carrying a pocketknife. He didn't have a license for a concealed weapon.
Another man in Portsmouth was spotted (http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2009/08/armed_and_dangerous.php) carrying a gun in a leg holster outside the school. The unconcealed weapon was legal under New Hampshire law and he was not arrested. Later, when asked why he brought the gun, he replied (http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/2009/08/gun-toter-at-obama-town-hall-whod-be-silly-enough-to-carry-an-unloaded-firearm.php?ref=fpb), "That's not even a relevant question. The question is, why don't people bear arms these days?"
And that's not all. A man brought a gun (http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/08/gun-carried-into-dem-congressmans-town-hall-but-not-pose-any-threat.php) to a town hall with Rep. Steve Cohen (D-TN) last week, without incident. At an event with Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-AZ), someone dropped a gun (http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/08/about-that-dropped-gun-in-arizona.php), but he had a permit and no police report was taken. And two weeks ago, a New Mexico man tweeted (http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/08/anti-health-care-reform-protester-encourages-physical-violence-use-of-firearms.php) that reform opponents should bring guns to town halls and "badly hurt" SEIU reps.

High C
08-17-2009, 07:20 PM
Perhaps it was intended as a reminder that people are tired of left wing politicos attempting to take away their rights. A few others seem pleased with that.

Canoeyawl
08-17-2009, 07:28 PM
Perhaps it is a reminder that the right wing has a bunch of radical wacko terrorists.
The one showing a weapon is the first to be hit...

Tom Montgomery
08-17-2009, 07:34 PM
Just representatives of the rightwing paranoid fringe who are convinced Obama intends to take away their guns. Nut cases. The Secret Service keeps them well away from the president.

johnw
08-17-2009, 07:36 PM
Perhaps it was intended as a reminder that people are tired of left wing politicos attempting to take away their rights. A few others seem pleased with that.
So, you're okay with people showing up at the president's speaking engagements with weapons? Would that be okay if he were a Republican, as well, or would you think people were tying to intimidates him?

ChaseKenyon
08-17-2009, 07:44 PM
Perhaps it is a reminder that the right wing has a bunch of radical wacko terrorists.
The one showing a weapon is the first to be hit...

I am usually armed and have all the proper training and concealed carry permits.

Since I left Government Service The only things I have killed are two deer(in season with black powder musket), a Rabid Rabbit (yeah loose ex pet big a$$ Rabbit like a sceene from Monty Python), and a 34 lb Raccoon with distemper that would not leave my barn and wanted to attack me.

You feel your self sage enough to label me as a right wing "Wacko Terrorist".

When I took the on-line Political Comfort Zone survey last year I landed smack Dab on top of the Dali Lama.

So I guess, by normal correlation, that would mean by your standards::::::

The Dali Lama Is a "Right wing Wacko Terrorist" in your own words!

No Wonder the Chinese Government wont issue him a visa to Travel to their province of Tibet Which thanks to their provincial government only has one out of over four hundred temples left standing.

:eek:

Phillip Allen
08-17-2009, 07:44 PM
check the political lie thread...

Tom Montgomery
08-17-2009, 07:54 PM
People who show up to presidential appearances armed are nuts, pure and simple. All they are accomplishing is making the Secret Service's job that much harder.

Phillip Allen
08-17-2009, 07:54 PM
People who show up to presidential appearances armed are nuts, pure and simple. All they are accomplishing is making the Secret Service's job that much harder.

secret service?

Tom, who died and made YOU deputy-God?

Tom Montgomery
08-17-2009, 07:55 PM
Yes. Secret Service. Heard of it? My cousin is a Secret Service agent who has to deal with these yahoos and keep them away from the president.

htom
08-17-2009, 07:56 PM
:cool: Agents provocateurs. :rolleyes: Left-wingers who are trying to scare people. :eek:

Lew Barrett
08-17-2009, 07:57 PM
Of course it's a provocation, and intended to be. What a bunch of loonies. Outright provocation. If there was ever anything that might shine a spotlight on how badly disenfranchised these people feel and how reactionary the fringe is, this is it. I wouldn't be surprised if it resulted in further carry restrictions. That's the most likely scenario. Dumb, dumb, dumb.

Phillip Allen
08-17-2009, 08:03 PM
Yes. Secret Service. Heard of it? My cousin is a Secret Service agent who has to deal with these yahoos and keep them away from the president.

pretorian guard?

Tom Montgomery
08-17-2009, 08:05 PM
Phillip: I want some of what you are smoking.

LeeG
08-17-2009, 08:18 PM
yes, they didn't want to go to the dojo and get picked on by Rex.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKmUsVeKp1o

BrianW
08-17-2009, 08:25 PM
Are they trying to tell us something?

Guns don't kill people?

Phillip Allen
08-17-2009, 08:35 PM
Okay...I thought this was patently obvious but for the slow among us:

I mess with guns and have since I was a boy...I intend to keep em until the grave takes me

I despise the stupidity/ignorance/hate/and other personal agendas of the disarm everyone except the government crowd

HOWEVER!

I have never been stupid enough or foolish enough to carry a firearm into government buildings let alone a presidential function...it is pointless in the extreme for several reasons...not the least of which is that if some occurrence were to transpire where I might otherwise feel the need to pull out a gun...the secret service is very likely to shoot me "just in case"...further, the danger will be addressed DIRECTLY by the SS crowd and I won't need to participate at all

all the guys and gals I am personally acquainted with in the gun crowd are not likely to be that foolish either...which leaves me to wonder who these guys are (if they exist) ...remembering that there are just as many whackos on the left and they might very well devote themselves to making people they want disarmed look bad if they can...think of it as a left wing fatwa

Tom, I don't think you are not able to follow my line of thinking and therefore, your feigned confusion is an attempt to surreptitiously recruit the more foolish among our readers...naughty, naughty

High C
08-17-2009, 08:38 PM
So, you're okay with people showing up at the president's speaking engagements with weapons?....

I neither said, nor inferred, any such thing.

BrianW
08-17-2009, 08:39 PM
Okay...I thought this was patently obvious but for the slow among us:...

It's a Democrat ploy to divert attention from the health care issue?

BrianW
08-17-2009, 08:41 PM
Yes. Secret Service. Heard of it? My cousin is a Secret Service agent who has to deal with these yahoos and keep them away from the president.

Job security is a wonderful thing.

Thank a whacko.

C. Ross
08-17-2009, 08:42 PM
This style of gun rights advocacy may backfire.

Tom Montgomery
08-17-2009, 08:50 PM
Job security is a wonderful thing.

Thank a whacko.

Yeah. Right. I suspect the shades of Lincoln, McKinley and Kennedy would disagree. :rolleyes:

Phillip Allen
08-17-2009, 08:52 PM
This style of gun rights advocacy may backfire.

it MAY be a gun advocacy group...and it MAY have been Polish soldiers that attacked Germany in 1939 and it MAY have been Indians who threw the tea in the harbor...

Tom Montgomery
08-17-2009, 08:54 PM
You're a whacko.

Phillip Allen
08-17-2009, 08:54 PM
how so, Tom?

make it quick...I"m off to bed in a short while

BrianW
08-17-2009, 08:55 PM
Yeah. Right. I suspect the shades of Lincoln, McKinley and Kennedy would disagree. :rolleyes:

Disagree that there are whackos, or the need for protection?

bobbys
08-17-2009, 08:56 PM
I never carry a Machine gun or Bazooka while i have on my Brooks Brothers outfit.

It just clashes before labor day.

LeeG
08-17-2009, 09:01 PM
You're a whacko.

He's got a thing for Hillary

pefjr
08-17-2009, 09:01 PM
That creates a very potentially dangerous situation that would keep me away and I bet many others too. They will end up with no one attending except gun toters. Isn't there some kind of responsibility requirement that goes with the license to carry a gun? If not its time for some new gun laws.

Tom Montgomery
08-17-2009, 09:02 PM
Disagree that there are whackos, or the need for protection?

The shades of the three assassinated presidents would disagree with you that the ubiquity of whackos providing for the job security of Secret Service agents is a wonderful thing.

Phillip Allen
08-17-2009, 09:03 PM
The shades of the three assassinated presidents would disagree with you that the ubiquity of whackos providing for the job security of Secret Service agents is a wonderful thing.

THREE assassinated presidents? How would ell-jay attack your argument at this point...disqualify everything you said on account of ignorance...???

Tom Montgomery
08-17-2009, 09:06 PM
The three that I named were all assassinated by gunmen. Are you disputing that fact?

BrianW
08-17-2009, 09:07 PM
The shades of the three assassinated presidents would disagree with you that the ubiquity of whackos providing for the job security of Secret Service agents is a wonderful thing.

The "shades"?

These shades?...

http://theshadesonline.org/default.aspx

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BrianW/shadestie.jpg

Phillip Allen
08-17-2009, 09:08 PM
The three that I named were all assassinated by gunmen. Are you disputing that fact?

nope...any thing you would like to add?

Tom Montgomery
08-17-2009, 09:13 PM
So please explain post #31. Who is displaying his ignorance?

Andrew Craig-Bennett
08-17-2009, 09:15 PM
Abraham Lincoln
James Garfield
William McKinley
John F. Kennedy

Clearly, one of them disagrees. ;)

Driver Mark
08-17-2009, 09:20 PM
Of course it's a provocation, and intended to be. What a bunch of loonies. Outright provocation. If there was ever anything that might shine a spotlight on how badly disenfranchised these people feel and how reactionary the fringe is, this is it. I wouldn't be surprised if it resulted in further carry restrictions. That's the most likely scenario. Dumb, dumb, dumb.


Just magine what would have happened if some "disenfranchised" type would have showed up "packing heat" at an event where W was present. Makes one wonder.

Tom Montgomery
08-17-2009, 09:27 PM
Of course James Garfield was also assassinated. I did not claim only three U.S. Presidents were assassinated. I simply named three: Lincoln, McKinley and Kennedy. Garfield is a fourth. Like me, he was an Ohioan. His tomb is in Lake View Cemetary in Cleveland. I have visited it.

Phillip Allen has to explain to us why, given this history, he thinks wackos appearing at president Obama's public appearances armed are admirable.

BrianW
08-17-2009, 09:30 PM
Phillip Allen has to explain to us why, given this history, he thinks wackos appearing at president Obama's public appearances armed are admirable.

Why?

Especially when considering what I read here, he doesn't think that at all.

You reading this stuff, or just making it up as you go?

:D

BrianW
08-17-2009, 09:33 PM
Actually Tom, I see he already nailed ya in post #17...



Tom, I don't think you are not able to follow my line of thinking and therefore, your feigned confusion is an attempt to surreptitiously recruit the more foolish among our readers...naughty, naughty

You are a naughty boy. :D

Tom Montgomery
08-17-2009, 09:38 PM
BrianW: Do you also think the Secret Service is a "pretorian guard?" Phillip Allen is a wacko. Are you? Given your remark that the wackos toting firearms to president Obama's public appearances are "wonderful job security" for the men and women of the Secret Service, I am beginning to wonder.

jbelow
08-17-2009, 09:41 PM
I bet those so-call Assault Rifles were loaded anti Union thug and anti Acorn thug bullets.

Glen Longino
08-17-2009, 09:42 PM
C'mon, Brian, it's clear to anybody around here that Phillip has cultivated a long time image of himself as the gun-packing protector of us all against real and imaginary demons (liberals) who want to take his guns away and make him and us impotent.
Don't tell me you subscribe to that same paranoia.

BrianW
08-17-2009, 09:43 PM
BrianW: Do you also think the Secret Service is a "pretorian guard?" Phillip Allen is a wacko. Are you? Given your remark that wackos are "wonderful job security" for the men and women of the Secret Service I am beginning to wonder.

Stop beating your wife yet?

Why do you hate America?

:D

pefjr
08-17-2009, 09:43 PM
Phillip, what's the requirements for gun carry? Vary state to state?

Tom Montgomery
08-17-2009, 09:45 PM
Stop beating your wife yet?

Why do you hate America?

:D

Hey Brian: If you don't like getting called on wacko remarks, engage your brain before posting.

botebum
08-17-2009, 09:47 PM
This is the ultimate winner of "Dumbest Thread About an Issue". Tom and Phillip- time to kiss and make up. You both are starting to look like idiots. Mostly Tom. but Phillip is catching up. I love both of your opinions and agree with most of what you both have to say. Does that make me a "moderate" now?

Doug

BrianW
08-17-2009, 09:47 PM
C'mon, Brian, it's clear to anybody around here...

What's clear, is his actual reply in this thread. Once again, post #17.


I have never been stupid enough or foolish enough to carry a firearm into government buildings let alone a presidential function...it is pointless in the extreme for several reasons...

...all the guys and gals I am personally acquainted with in the gun crowd are not likely to be that foolish either...

Really now, you and Tom go back together and reread that post (#17, in case ya forgot.) You can take turns, and help each other with the big words.

:)

Tom Montgomery
08-17-2009, 09:48 PM
I bet those so-call Assault Rifles were loaded anti Union thug and anti Acorn thug bullets.

What exactly are you advocating?

Glen Longino
08-17-2009, 09:53 PM
What exactly are you advocating?

Don't worry, Tom!
That's just Vidor-Speak for, "Have a nice day"!:rolleyes:

Tom Montgomery
08-17-2009, 09:53 PM
What's clear, is his actual reply in this thread. Once again, post #17.



Really now, you and Tom go back together and reread that post (#17, in case ya forgot.) You can take turns, and help each other with the big words.

:)

I labeled Phillip Allen a "whacko" after his remark equating the Secret Service with the "Pretorian Guard." You are the one who justified armed wackos turning up at presidential appearances as "wonderful job security" for the Secret Service.

I suppose I should not be surprised at rightwingers not taking responsibility for their statements. But I expected more from you, Brian.

BrianW
08-17-2009, 09:56 PM
Hey Brian: If you don't like getting called on wacko remarks, engage your brain before posting.

If "engaging your brain" is asking loaded questions...

from Wiki...


Loaded question, also known as complex question, presupposition, "trick question", or plurium interrogationum (Latin, "of many questions"), is an informal fallacy or logical fallacy.[1] It is committed when someone asks a question that presupposes something that has not been proven or accepted by all the people involved. This fallacy is often used rhetorically, so that the question limits direct replies to those that serve the questioner's agenda.[1] An example of this is the question "Are you still beating your wife?" Whether the respondent answers yes or no, he will admit to having a wife, and having beaten her at some time in the past. Thus, these facts are presupposed by the question, and in this case an entrapment, because it narrows the respondent to a single answer, and the fallacy of many questions has been committed.[1]

The fallacy relies upon context for its effect: the fact that a question presupposes something does not in itself make the question fallacious. Only when some of these presuppositions are not necessarily agreed to by the person who is asked the question does the argument containing them become fallacious.[1]


...Which was your modus operandi in post #41, I'll stick with making fun of your responses here.

It's more honorable.

PatCox
08-17-2009, 09:57 PM
Tom, these are people with an amazing persecution complex, paranoids, they think that Obama rallies will be surrounded by marxist hordes of union thugs, and that Acorn is just a bunch of marxist thugs, some of them, I am sure, think this is their way of standing up to what they think is liberal thugs and violence.

Insane.

Glen Longino
08-17-2009, 10:01 PM
What's clear, is his actual reply in this thread. Once again, post #17.



Really now, you and Tom go back together and reread that post (#17, in case ya forgot.) You can take turns, and help each other with the big words.

:)

Yep, I see Phillip praising himself for never carrying a gun into a political rally. Whoooopeee!
I have guns and will always have guns, but I don't feel the need to carry on about it incessantly or shove gun ownership down other people's throats.
Face it, Phillip has an identity and image obsession with guns that is counter-productive.
He damn near makes me want to get rid of my guns. Why can't he simply enjoy his guns and shut the hell up about it?

Shang
08-17-2009, 10:01 PM
(Copied and Moved from the "Squeaky Fromme" thread)

...Now, getting back to the loonies who are showing up packing at the Town Hall Meetings... they are out of their mummy-humpin' minds...! In the event of an incident with the President on hand, who do those gun-toting clowns suppose the Secret Service guys are going to mow down first to clear the field of fire?
Remember this..? http://gizmodo.com/290181/presidential-suv-machine-gun-pops-up-fills-the-air-with-lead

Tom Montgomery
08-17-2009, 10:03 PM
BrianW: I'm more negatively impressed by your post #20:




Yes. Secret Service. Heard of it? My cousin is a Secret Service agent who has to deal with these yahoos and keep them away from the president.
Job security is a wonderful thing.

Thank a whacko.

Right. I doubt the shades of our assassinated presidents would agree.

BrianW
08-17-2009, 10:04 PM
I labeled Phillip Allen a "whacko" ...


Which has been noted. You like to label people who may disagree with you. Not an admirable trait, but at least you admit it.


You are the one who justified armed wackos turning up at presidential appearances as "wonderful job security" for the Secret Service.

Protecting the President from armed whackos is the job of the Secret Service. It was proven and legislation passed long before I came along. So it didn't take me to justify it, but thanks for implying I'm that important.


I suppose I should not be surprised at rightwingers not taking responsibility for their statements. But I expected more from you, Brian.

I stand 100% behind every statement I've made on this thread. Once again you run the low-road and insinuate that I don't. Naughty Naughty.

This is fun. You step in it, then wipe it off on your other shoe!

:D

Domesticated_Mr. Know It All
08-17-2009, 10:05 PM
This thread needs more photos.
Perhaps a distraction from all this gun nonsense.



http://blogsexe.canalblog.com/images/_Girls_with_Guns_4.jpg

Driver Mark
08-17-2009, 10:05 PM
(Copied and Moved from the "Squeaky Fromme" thread)

...Now, getting back to the loonies who are showing up packing at the Town Hall Meetings... they are out of their mummy-humpin' minds...! In the event of an incident with the President on hand, who do those gun-toting clowns suppose the Secret Service guys are going to mow down first to clear the field of fire?
Remember this..? http://gizmodo.com/290181/presidential-suv-machine-gun-pops-up-fills-the-air-with-lead


Thats cooooool Where can I get one!????:D

jbelow
08-17-2009, 10:07 PM
What exactly are you advocating?

That Americans do not like to be bullied , pushed around , and assaulted at town hall meetings. Do not worry your little head. It will go away when the democraps call their dogs off. If you pull a bulls tail sometimes you get the horns.

botebum
08-17-2009, 10:09 PM
You remember when the young thug was checking out that assault type rifle? Out of curiosity- What constitutes a young thug? I look at the tin knockers at work and think they look like a bunch of crazed bikers but when I get to know them, they hunt an fish and love their wife and kids ... same as me. Just sayin'

Doug

BrianW
08-17-2009, 10:09 PM
Yep, I see Phillip praising himself for never carrying a gun into a political rally. Whoooopeee!
I have guns and will always have guns, but I don't feel the need to carry on about it incessantly or shove gun ownership down other people's throats.
Face it, Phillip has an identity and image obsession with guns that is counter-productive.
He damn near makes me want to get rid of my guns. Why can't he simply enjoy his guns and shut the hell up about it?

Phillip didn't start this thread.

Then we he agrees with you, Mike, and Tom, you guys still lambaste him.

Some of you need to leave your prejudices behind, and read what is written.

High C
08-17-2009, 10:10 PM
For God's sake, Tom make up your mind how you're going to spell that "W" word! :D

pefjr
08-17-2009, 10:10 PM
This thread needs more photos.
Perhaps a distraction from all this gun nonsense.



http://blogsexe.canalblog.com/images/_Girls_with_Guns_4.jpga michelin ad?

High C
08-17-2009, 10:11 PM
....Some of you need to leave your prejudices behind, and read what is written.

Oh let's not go there! :rolleyes:

Tom Montgomery
08-17-2009, 10:11 PM
Phillip Allen, jbelow and BrianW: three peas in a pod. Do you enjoy one another's company?

BrianW
08-17-2009, 10:12 PM
BrianW: I'm more negatively impressed by your post #20:


Right. I doubt the shades of our assassinated presidents would agree.

Oh still trying the dead president sympathy angle?

Ask the current President if he thinks there are whackos out there. Then ask him if he's thinking of reducing his Secret Service staff.

:D

I suspect his assigned agents are pretty damn secure in their jobs.

Tom Montgomery
08-17-2009, 10:13 PM
"Pretorian Guard" What do you suppose Phillip meant, Brian?

botebum
08-17-2009, 10:15 PM
You all are looking stupid. Both sides. Too funny.

Doug

BrianW
08-17-2009, 10:15 PM
Phillip Allen, jbelow and BrianW: three peas in a pod. Do you enjoy one another's company?

Okay Tom, just what is my opinion of people carrying guns around the President?

Go ahead, and quote it right here. We'll wait.

Tom Montgomery
08-17-2009, 10:15 PM
Oh still trying the dead president sympathy angle?

Ask the current President if he thinks there are whackos out there. Then ask him if he's thinking of reducing his Secret Service staff.

:D

I suspect his assigned agents are pretty damn secure in their jobs.

I think you have a pretty ugly attitude. You seem to think you're cleverly disguising it with humor.

Tom Montgomery
08-17-2009, 10:18 PM
Okay Tom, just what is my opinion of people carrying guns around the President?

Go ahead, and quote it right here. We'll wait.

OK, Brian. Just why do you think I labeled Phillip Allen a "whacko?"

Feel free to quote me verbatim. I'll wait.

Domesticated_Mr. Know It All
08-17-2009, 10:19 PM
You all are looking stupid. Both sides. Too funny.

Doug


Shut up Doug or I'll have her blast ya.


http://www.hotchickswithguns.com/files/hotchickwithguns/stripper%20with%20gun.jpg

Glen Longino
08-17-2009, 10:21 PM
That Americans do not like to be bullied , pushed around , and assaulted at town hall meetings. Do not worry your little head. It will go away when the democraps call their dogs off. If you pull a bulls tail sometimes you get the horns.

Jay, Jay, Jay!
Once again you've got it all back-asswards!
Obama is the Bull in this case, not the pistoleros who showed up at the rally. They were merely wallpaper for a lost cause.
Behind each one of them was another man with a gun ready to render them dead if they touched their guns . Get real, will you please?
You whiners are not the bulls, you are the steers, get it?

botebum
08-17-2009, 10:24 PM
Shut up Doug or I'll have her blast ya.


http://www.hotchickswithguns.com/files/hotchickwithguns/stripper%20with%20gun.jpgRed "x"'s don't scare me buddy boy:p

Doug

BrianW
08-17-2009, 10:25 PM
OK, Brian. Just why do you think I labeled Phillip Allen a "whacko?"

Why would I care?

You said jbelow, Phillip, and I were "peas in a pod". Yet you can't even quote my stance on this topic.

Now your gonna try this "answer a question with a question" tactic?

jbelow
08-17-2009, 10:27 PM
Phillip Allen, jbelow and BrianW: three peas in a pod. Do you enjoy one another's company?

Put that broad brush down and go beat up your strawman.

Tom Montgomery
08-17-2009, 10:29 PM
How that Texas seccesion movement doing? I'm pulling for you!

Domesticated_Mr. Know It All
08-17-2009, 10:32 PM
OK, you asked for it...

http://www.handymanclub.com/uploadedFiles/Community/Handyman_Forum/palin_rifle_bikini.jpg




....there, take that!

jbelow
08-17-2009, 10:39 PM
Jay, Jay, Jay!
Once again you've got it all back-asswards!
Obama is the Bull in this case, not the pistoleros who showed up at the rally. They were merely wallpaper for a lost cause.
Behind each one of them was another man with a gun ready to render them dead if they touched their guns . Get real, will you please?
You whiners are not the bulls, you are the steers, get it?

Glen , Glen , Glen !
You must be a checker player and not a chess player. Can you imagin the headlines if BOs secret service guns down a few citizens just for lawfully carrying guns. All hell would break loose. America may never be the same after that.

LeeG
08-17-2009, 10:41 PM
those aren't Sarahs guns

Domesticated_Mr. Know It All
08-17-2009, 10:48 PM
Can you imagin the headlines if BOs secret service guns down a few citizens just for lawfully carrying guns.



Lawful or not, you'd have to be pretty stupid to be carrying a gun when you go to hear the President speak eh?
If someone got shot doing something that stupid, I'd have no sympathy for them.

Glen Longino
08-17-2009, 10:51 PM
Glen , Glen , Glen !
You must be a checker player and not a chess player. Can you imagin the headlines if BOs secret service guns down a few citizens just for lawfully carrying guns. All hell would break loose. America may never be the same after that.

Trust me, if one of those wallpaper pistoleros had touched a gun he would have been dead, and they all knew it.
That's why it turned out peacefully. If secret service gunned down a numb-nutted pistolero who threatened the scene he would recieve a medal, and rightly so.
You people don't scare anybody!

Glen Longino
08-17-2009, 10:52 PM
OK, you asked for it...

http://www.handymanclub.com/uploadedFiles/Community/Handyman_Forum/palin_rifle_bikini.jpg




....there, take that!

Holy smokes!
Get out of the way, botebum!;)

botebum
08-17-2009, 10:53 PM
those aren't Sarahs gunsNot her chunky thighs either. I'm more into the real thing ... stupid talk("shaddup wench") and caint figger it out husband("where'd she go?")

Doug

BrianW
08-17-2009, 10:57 PM
Put that broad brush down and go beat up your strawman.

Man don't that wrap it up in one quick sentence!

:)

jbelow
08-17-2009, 11:14 PM
Trust me, if one of those wallpaper pistoleros had touched a gun he would have been dead, and they all knew it.
That's why it turned out peacefully. If secret service gunned down a numb-nutted pistolero who threatened the scene he would recieve a medal, and rightly so.
You people don't scare anybody!

The keyword here is LAWFUL . Some people were arrested for unlawfully carrying a firearm. I do not know who you refer to as "You people". The fact that guns were present must have upset some people or we would not be discussing it here. People like yourself must be afraid or feel threaten in some way.

pcford
08-17-2009, 11:31 PM
Disgusting.

BETTY-B
08-17-2009, 11:36 PM
http://www.handymanclub.com/uploadedFiles/Community/Handyman_Forum/palin_rifle_bikini.jpg

Hey, that looks like an updated version of the old Crosman Pumpmaster with an old Daisy single pump in the back ground.

BB guns or not, only a civil war provoking, idiot dumb**** would take one to an Obama town hall meeting.

DAN

LeeG
08-17-2009, 11:48 PM
In this big country we have a few of those

bobbys
08-17-2009, 11:49 PM
This thread needs more photos.
Perhaps a distraction from all this gun nonsense.



http://blogsexe.canalblog.com/images/_Girls_with_Guns_4.jpg.

What was this thread about again?????:D

bobbys
08-17-2009, 11:51 PM
ok, you asked for it...

http://www.handymanclub.com/uploadedfiles/community/handyman_forum/palin_rifle_bikini.jpg




....there, take that!.

Palin/ cheny 2012!!!!!

Domesticated_Mr. Know It All
08-18-2009, 12:21 AM
Boy, am I glad I stayed out of this one! Of the two women in bathing costumes I'll take Ms. Palin over the big-nose blond.


When she shoots you in the ass with that BB gun, don't come crying to me.

Phillip Allen
08-18-2009, 06:01 AM
I went to bed and as soon as I left the room you guys made a mess

Tom...you're smarter than that...don't associate me with people I don't want to be associated with and I won't point out your relationship to the pretorian guard...I'm dissapointed that I need to tell you that

I guess I could spell it out for you but it would be such a tedious job!

isla
08-18-2009, 06:51 AM
So I guess, by normal correlation, that would mean by your standards::::::

The Dali Lama Is a "Right wing Wacko Terrorist" in your own words!

No Wonder the Chinese Government wont issue him a visa to Travel to their province of Tibet Which thanks to their provincial government only has one out of over four hundred temples left standing.

:eek:

Not sure about the right-wing and terrorist bits, but people who shout on internet forums are definitely wacko in my book.

LeeG
08-18-2009, 07:11 AM
this is just too weird.

Five years ago you'd have protesters cordoned off in 'free speech zones'. Could you imagine an Arab American or African American carrying a rifle in those circumstances?
Could you imagine Obama the candidate with a 15yr old pregnant daughter whose boy friend has a face page that says he likes to shoot guns and stuff?
I wonder if any of those gun folks protesting that they still have rights by carrrying guns protested when Cheney the gun enthusiast was experimenting with the Constitution.
Maybe these guys could hang some plastic testicles off their belt loops.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQjFMt8mUv8

Mrleft8
08-18-2009, 07:32 AM
I figured that the gun carrying gawkers were hoping that either they'd be told to leave, they'd get their guns confiscated, they'd get arrested, or that they'd be shot. But they weren't doing anything illegal, so they just stood there looking stupid.
It must suck when you try to provoke a fight, and your intended opponent just walks past you like you don't exist...

John Smith
08-18-2009, 07:36 AM
Perhaps it was intended as a reminder that people are tired of left wing politicos attempting to take away their rights. A few others seem pleased with that.
I think it's people pushing the envelope and hoping for arrests.

Anyone other than myself remember that people got removed by police for Bush events for just wearing shirts?'

I think these people are daring Obama to have them removed, so they can further rile up their base.

Someone who is actually planning on shooting someone is not, IMO, going to have his weapon in plain sight.

John Smith
08-18-2009, 07:41 AM
Okay...I thought this was patently obvious but for the slow among us:

I mess with guns and have since I was a boy...I intend to keep em until the grave takes me

I despise the stupidity/ignorance/hate/and other personal agendas of the disarm everyone except the government crowd

HOWEVER!

I have never been stupid enough or foolish enough to carry a firearm into government buildings let alone a presidential function...it is pointless in the extreme for several reasons...not the least of which is that if some occurrence were to transpire where I might otherwise feel the need to pull out a gun...the secret service is very likely to shoot me "just in case"...further, the danger will be addressed DIRECTLY by the SS crowd and I won't need to participate at all

all the guys and gals I am personally acquainted with in the gun crowd are not likely to be that foolish either...which leaves me to wonder who these guys are (if they exist) ...remembering that there are just as many whackos on the left and they might very well devote themselves to making people they want disarmed look bad if they can...think of it as a left wing fatwa

Tom, I don't think you are not able to follow my line of thinking and therefore, your feigned confusion is an attempt to surreptitiously recruit the more foolish among our readers...naughty, naughty
I can only speak for myself.

I'm not a big believer in gun control. I accept the concept than a legally armed public can be a safer public, as anyone who has no scruples about killing people, certainly has no scruples about carrying an illegal weapon.

To this end, gun control tends to better arm the bad guys.

That said, however, unless one is willing to take the position that a private citizen, under the 2nd amendment, has the right to own his own hydrogen bomb, one must, by definition, have some line in mind as to what arms can be privately owned.

Tom Montgomery
08-18-2009, 07:41 AM
I went to bed and as soon as I left the room you guys made a mess

Tom...you're smarter than that...don't associate me with people I don't want to be associated with and I won't point out your relationship to the pretorian guard...I'm dissapointed that I need to tell you that

I guess I could spell it out for you but it would be such a tedious job!

Explain the "pretorian guard" reference.

TomF
08-18-2009, 07:41 AM
this is just too weird.

Five years ago you'd have protesters cordoned off in 'free speech zones'. ...Word.

I wonder how the Town Hallers would react if their protests were relegated to roped-off Free Speech Zones, some blocks away from the Presidential event. Isn't it interesting to contrast the way the current Nazi-Socialist President is approaching that right, compared with the predecessor Defender of Liberty administration?

The gun-bearers? Darwin Award candidates. Legal and permitted or not, I can't think of any better way to commit suicide-by-Secret-Service than to plant yourself near the President and look like you're about to pull a gun.

I do find myself wondering if they get as concerned about their 2nd Amendment rights when booking flights home for Christmas, as they do when sauntering around near a President who reportedly gets 3000 death threats per day.

Domesticated_Mr. Know It All
08-18-2009, 07:42 AM
What If I showed up in one of these, (it shoots paintballs) think I'd get busted?



http://technabob.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/paintball_tank.jpg

skuthorp
08-18-2009, 07:46 AM
That creates a very potentially dangerous situation that would keep me away and I bet many others too. They will end up with no one attending except gun toters. Isn't there some kind of responsibility requirement that goes with the license to carry a gun? If not its time for some new gun laws.

We can presume that this is some sort of provocative action, making a statement about their rights. But someone will inevitably feel they have to push the envelope and the SS will act, but hopefully no one else will for fear of a gunfight by accident, Hopefully.
Really, I can see this backfiring seriously on those involved.

And Phillip, I note your guns didn't stop you getting robbed the other day. What would have been the repercussions if you'd plugged them as they scooted down the drive with your stuff?

John Smith
08-18-2009, 07:48 AM
Word.

I wonder how the Town Hallers would react if their protests were relegated to roped-off Free Speech Zones, some blocks away from the Presidential event. Isn't it interesting to contrast the way the current Nazi-Socialist President is approaching that right, compared with the predecessor Defender of Liberty administration?

The gun-bearers? Darwin Award candidates. Legal and permitted or not, I can't think of any better way to commit suicide-by-Secret-Service than to plant yourself near the President and look like you're about to pull a gun.

I do find myself wondering if they get as concerned about their 2nd Amendment rights when booking flights home for Christmas, as they do when sauntering around near a President who reportedly gets 3000 death threats per day.
This is an interesting post. It makes me think this is part of a larger strategy.

If it's not in the works, it should be in the works, either as ads, or as a 60 minutes story. The difference in the way the protesters were allowed into the forums, as opposed to being forced into other places, says a lot, especially about who wishes to take our rights away.

LeeG
08-18-2009, 07:51 AM
Palin is nothing but a trailer park skank. I can see why you would like her.

pssst, it's photoshopped. The girl holding the gun is the same age as the guy behind her.

John Smith
08-18-2009, 07:56 AM
We can presume that this is some sort of provocative action, making a statement about their rights. But someone will inevitably feel they have to push the envelope and the SS will act, but hopefully no one else will for fear of a gunfight by accident, Hopefully.
Really, I can see this backfiring seriously on those involved.

And Phillip, I note your guns didn't stop you getting robbed the other day. What would have been the repercussions if you'd plugged them as they scooted down the drive with your stuff?
I fully suspect that if these idiots shoot anyone, it will be other crowd people, not the president.

No one who has plans to shoot the president is going to wear his gun where all can see it.

Milo Christensen
08-18-2009, 07:58 AM
Arizona? The state with the second highest %age of uninsured health care recipients in the nation, the state responsible for bringing us John McCain, and a state with one of the most "liberal" guns in public statutes in the nation. And Obama goes there? Next he'll have a motorcade in an open convertible in Dallas, Texas and drive around and around the Texas Book Depository.

LeeG
08-18-2009, 08:03 AM
oopsy, at one town hall meeting a guys pistol fell out when he sat down. Yep, time for street theater. I could imagine a couple of college kids with plastic bull testicles walking up with a video camera.

http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/printDS/304149

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/08/about-that-dropped-gun-in-arizona.php

TomF
08-18-2009, 08:05 AM
Arizona? The state with the second highest %age of uninsured health care recipients in the nation, the state responsible for bringing us John McCain, and a state with one of the most "liberal" guns in public statutes in the nation. And Obama goes there? Next he'll have a motorcade in an open convertible in Dallas, Texas and drive around and around the Texas Book Depository.When he's discussing health insurance reform, why would he stay away from the state with the 2nd highest % of uninsured health care recipients in the nation? People don't go bankrupt in Arizona?

Besides, if the gun advocates are correct and an armed society is a safe society, Obama's safer in Arizona than anywhere else.

Milo Christensen
08-18-2009, 08:13 AM
Good Morning, Tom. I'm only trying to point out that when you go to certain places in this wonderfully diverse country called Amerika, you get different kinds of people wandering around in public than you would see in other parts of the country. It's normal in Arizona for people to walk the streets armed, they do it because they can, it's no big deal.

LeeG
08-18-2009, 08:17 AM
"hey Bob, nice pair you got on today, going to the town hall meeting?"

Tom Montgomery
08-18-2009, 08:20 AM
Marshall Earp did not allow folks to tote guns in town.

elf
08-18-2009, 08:21 AM
What's with the guns at Obama events?

Lotta guys unhappy about having to keep their zippers zipped.

LeeG
08-18-2009, 08:29 AM
. Could you imagine an Arab American or African American carrying a rifle in those circumstances?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQjFMt8mUv8


oops, the guy carrying the AR15 was black.

Tom Montgomery
08-18-2009, 08:32 AM
Nutz come in all flavors.

TomF
08-18-2009, 08:32 AM
It's normal in Arizona for people to walk the streets armed, they do it because they can, it's no big deal.G'Morning Milo.

I understand. If you travel to Calgary and wander around downtown during lunchtime, you'll often see office workers wearing Stetsons with their business suits.

They don't realize they're in period costume either.

TomF
08-18-2009, 08:34 AM
... with an assault rifle and/or an automatic straped to his leg, carrying a sign referencing 'watering the tree of liberty', things have transitioned from vigorous protest, into veiled threats of physical intimidation.Norman!

Guns don't kill people ...

Besides, if Milo's right, an open-carry sidearm is analagous to strapping a Blackberry on your belt. Identity-group jewellery, nothing more.

John Smith
08-18-2009, 08:34 AM
Hmmm..nobody seems to have really caught the essence of all of this. When someone walks around with an assault rifle and/or an automatic straped to his leg, carrying a sign referencing 'watering the tree of liberty', things have transitioned from vigorous protest, into veiled threats of physical intimidation.
Many of us have caught that.

Assuming there is a documentary coming on some show displaying the difference between this administration and the previous administration concerning protestors, it will be interesting to see how it plays to those who seem most concerned about Obama taking our rights away.

The guy with the gun and that sign got interviewed by Chris Matthews. I think it would have been extremely interesting if this guy had been invited in, sans weapons, to speak directly with Obama. Then everyone would have seen him look like an idiot.

Milo Christensen
08-18-2009, 08:48 AM
. . . Identity-group jewellery, nothing more.

It's a mark of your superior intelligence (compared to other forum liberals) that perhaps you are finally beginning to understand.

Joe (SoCal)
08-18-2009, 08:51 AM
You know when you were here this summer I got so sick of listening to you talk about guns I could have puked and one of the biggest mistakes I made was taking you to a gun shop.

You remember when the young thug was checking out that assault type rifle? It didn't seem to bother you. It scared the hell out of me and really shook Shane up. What scared me even worse was the clerk in the shop was willingly trying to sell it to him.

You just don't seem to get it at all. There are those of us that have to live with gun violence on a daily basis and you ain't one of them.

We had four people shot in four different incidents here in Memphis in one damn day over the weekend. How many over your way?

I wish all guns would dissappear off the face of the earth and you can take your RWW viewpoints on the matter and stick em because they don't fly with me.


Well said my brother from another mother. For those that don't know Ol' "Awe Shucks" can go on and on and on in person more than he does on this forum if that is possible :eek:

I completely agree MMike about gun nuts BLIND ambition to defend any limitation to their gun lust. Even in the face of nuts who will bring guns to a Presidential speech.

Now I love Brian and he is one of my favorite right wing gun nuts Ya know I love ya baby ;), but you are starting to only tow the party line and not thinkfor yourself. You make ad hoc little snide comments instead of truly engaging the dialog. I would truly love to hear what you realy think about gun control and the silliness of people that bring guns to see the president. But brian you are becoming a pat cartoon persona of the Neocon agenda. I think you could be the most important voice of reason on this forum regarding this issue, and I for one would listen to your ideas with an open mind.

As for "Aw Shucks" he just likes to hear himself talk and will never get it. Which is why I don't listen anymore. ;)

SamSam
08-18-2009, 08:53 AM
This guy might be OK, but what's to stop some freak from grabbing his gun and using it? He might have the right to carry a gun into a potentially "unstable" situation, but he has little control over the weapon itself.



http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/08/12/article-0-0607E57D000005DC-122_468x831.jpg

Milo Christensen
08-18-2009, 08:58 AM
. . . Then everyone would have seen him look like an idiot.

http://i.azcentral.com/i/sized/C/9/3/e298/j350/PHP4A897DB84A39C.jpg

Where's Teetsel when you need him to explain some of the fringe thinkers in Arizona?

TomF
08-18-2009, 08:59 AM
...perhaps you are finally beginning to understand.There is a difference between choosing a Blackberry vs. a sidearm as identity-group jewellery.

If I get balls-to-the-wall livid and absolutely lose it with someone, I can send them the nastiest e-mail...

LeeG
08-18-2009, 08:59 AM
I think he should also have a Japanese sword on him.

Milo Christensen
08-18-2009, 09:03 AM
There is a difference between choosing a Blackberry vs. a sidearm as identity-group jewellery.

If I get balls-to-the-wall livid and absolutely lose it with someone, I can send them the nastiest e-mail...

Perhaps you need the calmness and assurance that comes from carrying a gun? Or perhaps you shouldn't be allowed to carry a gun?

Tom - what part of "It's O.K. - It's Arizona" are you having trouble with. And I can say that, I'm the rarity, a native born Arizonan.

Tom Montgomery
08-18-2009, 09:07 AM
"It is time to water the tree of liberty."

I am familiar with Jefferson's quote. And just whose blood does this yahoo think needs to be shed to fill the watering can?

I am not anti-gun. I am anti-paranoia and insanity. And I am alarmed and disgusted that the GOP and the rightwing media are pandering to these delusional saps.

LeeG
08-18-2009, 09:14 AM
That's a good question Tom, I'm sure if you ask him he'd say it's his blood, and it probably would be his blood as well as anyone he was shooting at.

What that has to do with liberty I don't know.

pefjr
08-18-2009, 09:18 AM
"It is time to water the tree of liberty."

I am familiar with Jefferson's quote. And just whose blood does this yahoo think needs to be shed to fill the watering can?

I am not anti-gun. I am anti-paranoia and insanity. And I am alarmed and disgusted that the GOP and the rightwing media are pandering to these delusional saps.Tom, how do you get the GOP in this?

TomF
08-18-2009, 09:21 AM
Perhaps you need the calmness and assurance that comes from carrying a gun? Or perhaps you shouldn't be allowed to carry a gun?

Tom - what part of "It's O.K. - It's Arizona" are you having trouble with. And I can say that, I'm the rarity, a native born Arizonan.My trouble's with the "It's OK" bit.

I have zero doubt that the salt-of-the-earth Arizona patriot gents in the pictures would be among the last to turn those weapons on the POTUS, out of respect for the Office if nothing else.

I also have zero doubt that given a few moments, they could envision a scenario where some leftist-commie-islamist-whacko could dress up like an Arizona boy, in order to get close enough to take a shot. And could get a couple of rounds off before the righteous Arizonan sheepdogs or the Secret Service dropped him.

I usually carry a fairly nice Laguiole pocket knife as part of my own identity-group jewellery. It goes into checked luggage when I fly, and it stays at the security desk when I go into the Legislature with my boss.

You'd think that a Patriot with a penchant for security might understand a "no firearms within a security perimeter" rule too, even if they found it irritating.

High C
08-18-2009, 09:24 AM
....I am alarmed and disgusted that the GOP and the rightwing media are pandering to these delusional saps.

The mainstream media does little else than pander to the delusional saps from your side of the aisle. And you would deprive the right of similar expression?

From the party of civil disobedience and protest, this is an absurd complaint. :rolleyes:

LeeG
08-18-2009, 09:40 AM
HighC, so wearing a gun is a manner of expression? What does it say?

Tom Montgomery
08-18-2009, 09:41 AM
The mainstream media does little else than pander to the delusional saps from your side of the aisle. And you would deprive the right of similar expression?

From the party of civil disobedience and protest, this is an absurd complaint. :rolleyes:

I am not advocating locking these nuts up nor interferring with their right to spout any legitimate political nonsense they like. I am merely calling a spade a "spade." These are delusional saps who are being egged on by elements of the GOP and the rightwing media. And you, High C, should be ashamed of yourself to associate your political beliefs in any way with a nutcase brandishing a sign implicitly threatening the life of the President of the USA.

Joe (SoCal)
08-18-2009, 09:43 AM
As a teen in the late 60's, I remember (and was even part of) the protest and civil disobedience movement at the time....

...but I don't recall anyone engaging in protest or civil disobedience carrying a loaded firearm, with the obvious intention of intimidation.

http://www.ecopolis.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/flower-power.jpg

picture of an anti-war protest in Washington on Oct. 22, 1967.

Keith Wilson
08-18-2009, 09:46 AM
I think this is an example of part of the right wing caught in a feedback loop, where "more radical than thou" becomes a popular game. It happened to the left in the 1970s, when people who really should have known better talked seriously about revolution. Unfortunately, there are always some for whom it's not just rhetoric. A feedback loop is almost always the sign of the end of a movement, as it peters out into silliness at best and violence at worst.

Just for amusement, here's the source of the sign, "restoretherepublic.com" (http://restoretherepublic.com/) Pretty ordinary far-right stuff; Ron Paul, the collapse of the dollar, Libertarians, states' rights, etc.

High C
08-18-2009, 09:46 AM
.....And you, High C, should be ashamed of yourself to associate your political beliefs in any way with a nutcase brandishing a sign implicitly threatening the life of the President of the USA.

Again, I have neither said. nor inferred, anything of the sort. You have a profound reading comprehension problem.

Tom Montgomery
08-18-2009, 09:54 AM
I'm no newbie, High C. I know just where you stand politically.

switters
08-18-2009, 09:56 AM
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.


Hypocrisy from both sides.

LeeG
08-18-2009, 09:58 AM
Again, I have neither said. nor inferred, anything of the sort. You have a profound reading comprehension problem.

Imply would be a better use as infer means you are reasoning from given information whereas you are giving information. It's the only thing that stuck from 11th grade English.

Tom Montgomery
08-18-2009, 10:00 AM
There are recognized limits on speech. You cannot yell "Fire" in a crowded theater as a prank. Slander and libel are illegal. A threat against the POTUS is illegal. Etc.

High C
08-18-2009, 10:18 AM
I'm no newbie, High C. I know just where you stand politically.

You know your own stereotypes...and little else. :rolleyes:

Phillip Allen
08-18-2009, 10:23 AM
And Phillip, I note your guns didn't stop you getting robbed the other day. What would have been the repercussions if you'd plugged them as they scooted down the drive with your stuff?

"If" I had woke up and seen what they were doing:

There would have been a confrontation

There would not have been gun fire unless it came from them...I wouldn't have fetched one outa the closet and loaded it before confronting them

If I had time, I would have left them doing what they were doing and snuck up to their get away vehicle and disabled it BEFORE the confrontation

YES, if I had simply shot them as they carried my stuff out of my driveway, I would have been arrested...I've always known that...what makes folks like many here deliberately perpetuate the LIE that I (or any other gun owner...discounting whackos, left or right) would meet such thieves with gunfire as a first action? AND that question is only rhetorical for those who can maintain a little intellectual honesty...those who believe their own propaganda need to seriously think about it!

TomF
08-18-2009, 10:24 AM
Again, I have neither said. nor inferred, anything of the sort. You have a profound reading comprehension problem.To be clear then,

You're dissociating yourself from the political views of the gent holding up the "It is time to water the Tree of Liberty" sign? The website address on his sign (www.restoretherepublic.com (http://www.restoretherepublic.com)) takes you to a place where, presumably, he feels politically at home.

I suspect Donn would argue that this is good-natured hyperbole. He's not actually calling himself a "patriot" or Obama a "tyrant." Jefferson's comment about watering the tree with the blood of same is only meant metaphorically nowadays. It's pure coincidence that the gent's packing a sidearm outside a Presidential gathering ... after all, this is Arizona; he prolly forgot he had it on.

Despite the sign and the gun, he's not advocating shooting any tyrants, no sir! Though fortuitously, he's dressed to go to the party if somebody starts it.

pefjr
08-18-2009, 10:27 AM
You know your own stereotypes...and little else. :rolleyes:And like a birther, they live by that bigotry...I mean knowledge.

High C
08-18-2009, 10:32 AM
To be clear then,

You're...

To be clear, I've said what I meant to say, said it clearly, and don't care to have it rephrased into someone else's strawman.

Lew Barrett
08-18-2009, 10:32 AM
This isn't a polemic; it's a charged environment. There is nothing cute, reaffirming or understandable about that photo of the goon with the gun and the sign. It represents an implied threat, and frankly, it's hard to see how it equally represents a valid political statement.

It's like a man asserting and protesting his right to take a sh*t. He already has the right, so protesting it by taking one in public is unnecessary. That dope's protest likewise adds nothing to the conversation regarding health care reform. It's an open declaration of disdain, disrespect and is an implied threat. I would not feel comfortable with this jerk in any crowd that was expressing emotionally charged political feelings, and would absolutely feel my own right to expression threatened if this were the fellow across the line from me. And here's where "the Nazi tactics" line up with this new form of "freedom of speech." Arizona's law is stupid if this is what they had in mind. Goons and thugs and " freedom protesters." Bull****!
Pure intimidation. Amazing blindness on the part of some here.

TomF
08-18-2009, 10:37 AM
To be clear, I've said what I meant to say, said it clearly, and don't care to have it rephrased into someone else's strawman.Right.

You've said that nowhere have you inferred that you do support the gent's views. Nowhere have you inferred that you don't, either.

Of course, I've been equally vague. Are you in much doubt about my views though?

Phillip Allen
08-18-2009, 10:38 AM
shall I cut and paste this thread to the "Show me an example of left wing lies that are believed" thread?

High C
08-18-2009, 10:43 AM
Right.

You've said that nowhere have you inferred that you do support the gent's views. Nowhere have you inferred that you don't, either.

Of course, I've been equally vague. Are you in much doubt about my views though?

Tom, I find it remarkable that the other Tom feels comfortable ASSuming that I support the gun toting sign bearer simply because I see hypocrisy in his upset. This kind of public display, idiot protesters with signs, foaming at the mouth, sometimes violent and threatening, is part of the fabric of the American left. On the rare occasion when this method is deployed by some goof on the right, the left cries foul. It's just stupid. What's good for the goose.....

TomF
08-18-2009, 10:46 AM
shall I cut and paste this thread to the "Show me an example of left wing lies that are believed" thread?I see a photo of an armed demonstrator outside a Presidential function. He's holding a sign that takes a riff from a fabled Jefferson comment about how liberty requires the periodic death of patriots and tyrants, saying "now's the time."

How should we interpret the image?

What is the Left's lie?

pefjr
08-18-2009, 10:46 AM
"I would not feel comfortable with this jerk in any crowd that was expressing emotionally charged political feelings, and would absolutely feel my own right to expression threatened" Lew

I think this element intimidates a lot of people and as I asked before, Isn't there a responsibility requirement with a gun carry license?

Tom Montgomery
08-18-2009, 10:47 AM
Two wrongs make a right, eh High C? As for my alleged hypocrisy, if you can link to any post where I have defended leftist threats as legitimate political speech, have at it.

John of Phoenix
08-18-2009, 10:52 AM
Actually, we don't see many guns around here. Occasionally in Prescott, the old territorial capital and home of the wild and crazy Whiskey Row, you'll see a bunch of bikers with guns and knives but that's about it. Metro areas are pretty bland though the legislature recently said it's ok to carry concealed in bars. You can't drink, but... well it's concealed right?

At a recent Dem congresswoman's town hall meeting -

Arizona Daily Star, Tucson, Aug 11

"Apparently, there was no police report taken, the reason being that it was an accidental drop of a gun," [police sergeant] Gonzalez explained to [the reporter]. "Apparently, a male gentleman that went to the meeting had a gun holstered on his side. And when he sat down, it fell out of his holster."

Police were not called to the scene, but were already there to maintain public order and provide security for the Congresswoman. They immediately looked into this, and it turned out the man owned the gun and was legally carrying it.

So much for securing the weapon. I predict someone is going to grab one of these open carry pistols and the rest will be history.

Has anyone actually stated why they carry these things to town hall meetings?

John of Phoenix
08-18-2009, 10:54 AM
Leave HiC alone. He's playing Sam today.

TomF
08-18-2009, 10:56 AM
Tom, I find it remarkable that the other Tom feels comfortable ASSuming that I support the gun toting sign bearer simply because I see hypocrisy in his upset. This kind of public display, idiot protesters with signs, foaming at the mouth, sometimes violent and threatening, is part of the fabric of the American left. On the rare occasion when this method is deployed by some goof on the right, the left cries foul. It's just stupid. What's good for the goose.....The difference being the intentionally visible presence of lethal force to back up the threat.

Both sides have their "goofs," who make implicit or explicit death threats. The ones that bring the goods to accomplish those ends, whether with intent or simply as costume props, should be taken more seriously than the ones without.

A looney G8 protester with a sign saying "BBQ the rich" should have his free speech time. A similar protester who's also packing a legal, permitted semi-auto Kalashnikov replica ... should be treated a bit differently from the first.

LeeG
08-18-2009, 11:02 AM
youtube clip of Chris, AR15 wearer, speaks:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63GiXzpfGhA

Phillip Allen
08-18-2009, 11:08 AM
Taken as a whole...the left of this thread appears to me to be quite hypocritical...they also "don't get it" and there's the rub...If I point out the double standard they will haggle about small things (enlarged in their own minds) and attempt to disguise their foolishness...however, it is they and ostriches who fail to see it

If they are unwilling to see they won’t see…it’s pointless to attempt to teach them how to think if they don’t already know or want to know

Milo Christensen
08-18-2009, 11:09 AM
. . . Chris, AR15 wearer, speaks:


It's Arizona. People understand.

If you don't live in Arizona, you really don't have the right to condemn those who do.

John of Phoenix
08-18-2009, 11:11 AM
Milo, where in Arizona were you born?

Tom Montgomery
08-18-2009, 11:15 AM
Taken as a whole...the left of this thread appears to me to be quite hypocritical...they also "don't get it" and there's the rub...If I point out the double standard they will haggle about small things (enlarged in their own minds) and attempt to disguise their foolishness...however, it is they and ostriches who fail to see it

If they are unwilling to see they wonít seeÖitís pointless to attempt to teach them how to think if they donít already know or want to know

Ish calls this "projecting," Phillip.

bobbys
08-18-2009, 11:17 AM
I could bring my gun to a townhall its perfectly legal but i dont want libs aborting babies in the parking lot cause its legal so i dont up the antie

Robmill0605
08-18-2009, 11:18 AM
As a teen in the late 60's, I remember (and was even part of) the protest and civil disobedience movement at the time....

...but I don't recall anyone engaging in protest or civil disobedience carrying a loaded firearm, with the obvious intention of intimidation.

Really? Let me help you Norman.


May 2, 1967, Sacramento, CA:

A group of thirty young black men and women, dressed in black leather jackets, berets, and dark glasses, crosses the lawn to the steps of the state capitol. Many of them are armed with shotguns, though they are careful to keep the weapons pointed towards the sky. As they approach the entrance to the capitol building, Governor Ronald Reagan, speaking to a cluster of schoolchildren nearby, catches sight of their advance, turns on his heel, and runs. Still marching in tight formation, the group reaches the steps, faces the crowd, and listens attentively as their leader, Bobby Seale, [1] reads Executive Mandate Number One of the Black Panther Party for Self-Defense to the startled audience. The mandate, addressed to ?the American people in general and the black people in particular,? details the ?terror, brutality, murder, and repression of black people? practiced by ?the racist power structure of America,? and concludes that ?the time has come for black people to arm themselves against this terror before it is too late.? [2] Cameras flash as Seale finishes reading and the defiant group proceeds into the building. One wrong turn, and the delegation stumbles onto the Assembly floor, currently in debate over the Mulford Act, aimed to prohibit citizens from carrying loaded firearms on their persons or in their vehicles. Chaos ensues: legislators dive under desks, screaming, ?Don?t shoot!? and security guards hurriedly surround the party, grabbing at weapons and herding everyone into the hallway. All the while cameramen and reporters run back and forth, grinning in anticipation of tomorrow?s headlines. ?Who are you?? one manages to shout before the assembly is led into an elevator. Sixteen-year-old ?little? Bobby Hutton is the first to reply, and his words remain an echo in the hallway just before the doors slide shut with a soft hiss:

? We?re the Black Panthers.
We?re black people with guns.
What about it??[3]
......

Or how about the armed black panthers at polling sites during the 2008 elections?

Yeah, it's just the anti -Obama nuts.......:cool:

Milo Christensen
08-18-2009, 11:20 AM
When Mom was alive, she didn't want me telling people that I was born in a Seventh Day Adventist hospital in Tempe. I don't know why I was born in a Seventh Day Adventist hospital, my dad was a Lutheran and my mom was an Anglican.

Tom Montgomery
08-18-2009, 11:27 AM
Is someone suggesting the Black Panthers were tolerated by law enforcement? Got a link to armed Black Panthers at polling places in 2008?

LeeG
08-18-2009, 11:31 AM
If you don't live in Arizona, you really don't have the right to condemn those who do.

posting a link to the AR15 wearers media product is not condemning those who live in Arizona. Is that really how you interpreted my providing a link to this fellows self-promotion?

John of Phoenix
08-18-2009, 11:32 AM
Tempe's a great city. Far and away the most liberal in the Phoenix area.

They made a dry river bed into a lake with inflatable dams - Tempe Town Lake. That's not my boat (in irons), though I sail there frequently, but it is my office building in the background.

Love the city, very progressive. They have much to be proud of.

http://www.tempetownlake.com/Sailing_on_Tempe_Town_Lake.jpg

pefjr
08-18-2009, 11:32 AM
youtube clip of Chris, AR15 wearer, speaks:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63GiXzpfGhA
Just what I thought, gun worship, but not it the shower, it would be a little awkward to soap down with a rifle on your shoulder. Does he chew gum in the shower?

Phillip Allen
08-18-2009, 11:39 AM
Ish calls this "projecting," Phillip.

it is a general feeling of mine Tom...I named no one but it would do us all good to do a little honest self-examination at this point

honesty is not a personality trait...it is a goal

Milo Christensen
08-18-2009, 11:41 AM
posting a link to the AR15 wearers media product is not condemning those who live in Arizona. Is that really how you interpreted my providing a link to this fellows self-promotion?

Well, see, if you look at a map, both of the north coasts are up and Arizona is down and lots of the nuts rolling around the rest of the country end up rolling down to Arizona, where they feel very comfortable, after all it is a dry heat.

Seriously, although that's becoming increasingly difficult, the "everybody's got to be like us" liberals against real diversity thing is something that needs to be pointed out, again and again and again.

You've got to remember, those of you surrounded by like minded progressives that if you ever see a gun you will see it only in the hands of a criminal because you've outlawed guns. Very responsible people carry guns all the time where it's legal to do so.

John of Phoenix
08-18-2009, 11:46 AM
So in the opinion of the conservatives here, what's the point of having weapons at these Presidential meetings? Promoting diversity?

elf
08-18-2009, 11:48 AM
And Milo, you have to understand that if guns are criminalized it will be quite easy to tell the criminals from the law abiding.

LeeG
08-18-2009, 11:48 AM
In Chris' staging area there's signs saying 911 Truth! Vaccines=Death.

This is some fun stuff, the issue is health care and the wingnuts are saying vaccines=death and his display of a rifle will somehow communicates a no-tax libertarianism.

Hey Milo, I don't need to condemn this stuff, it speaks for itself. btw I grew up in a city where the JohnBirch Society had billboards in the city limits and most of the homes around me had guns, and the kids played with them, and one friend who was beat up by his dad liked to show off his dads guns when he wasn't around. Shot a 12g shell with the powder and shot removed but only the primer shooting the wad at me. Yeah, I'm familiar with guns and how some people use them as manners of expression and not tools for a task.

Phillip Allen
08-18-2009, 11:50 AM
So in the opinion of the conservatives here, what's the point of having weapons at these Presidential meetings? Promoting diversity?

it is so stupid that I suspect something about it is a lie...and I approach it from that perspective

LeeG
08-18-2009, 11:50 AM
You've got to remember, those of you surrounded by like minded progressives that if you ever see a gun you will see it only in the hands of a criminal because you've outlawed guns. Very responsible people carry guns all the time where it's legal to do so.


Milo, you apparently don't know sh*t about me.

Milo Christensen
08-18-2009, 11:51 AM
John, it just seems to me that some of these people always carry guns. I really don't see it as a big deal, although a dozen or so of them went out of their way to carry guns to the protests. All the audio I've heard of the crowd sounds like everybody was just having a pretty good time. But folks who weren't there saw, horrors, guns. GUNS IN THE OPEN! GUNS NEAR THE PLACE THE PRESIDENT IS SPEAKING!!

Kinda forgetting that the President was speaking to people who we sent all over the world carrying guns.

Phillip Allen
08-18-2009, 11:51 AM
Milo, you apparently don't know sh*t about me.

on the contrary...we ALL know sh*t about every one else here

Milo Christensen
08-18-2009, 11:56 AM
Ummm, LeeG, it's not personal, ummmmkayyyyyyy? Please don't start to make it personal. The divide between urban blue and their attitude towards guns and the rest of us that are red is capable of being very broadly generalized.

And I do indeed know quite abit about you. That comes with the territory of 25,000 + posts here.

BrianW
08-18-2009, 11:57 AM
Now I love Brian and he is one of my favorite right wing gun nuts Ya know I love ya baby ;)... ...I would truly love to hear what you realy think about gun control and the silliness of people that bring guns to see the president.

Love ya too Joe. :)

Since you asked, I'll tell ya. It's a pretty stupid thing to do, bringing guns to a Presidential speech. Since you've got Phillip on "ignore", you may not know that he thought the same.

Heck, I'm even for a law against it. I don't want any President to be harmed for doing his/her elected duties.


But brian you are becoming a pat cartoon persona of the Neocon agenda.

Some here like to think so. Quite often I might agree with the main focus of a thread, but disagree with individual statements and reasoning. Whenever I express that disagreement, at least one person will start associating me with the neocon ideals.

I've come to accept that from certain members, and can predict it with an alarming accuracy.

In fact this is the first post on this thread in which I've expressed my opinion on the topic, yet I've been labeled, tried, and found guilty by a certain active member. :D

If it seems I've given up trying to appease certain folks, it's only because I've found that it doesn't work.

Thanks for asking and not jumping to conclusions! That's a sign of class.

pefjr
08-18-2009, 11:58 AM
"Very responsible people carry guns all the time where it's legal to do so" Milo
I question "responsible" .... buy why?

You can not exercise a right when it violates another's right

Milo Christensen
08-18-2009, 12:01 PM
[quote=pefjr;2291369. . . You can not exercise a right when it violates another's right[/quote]

You have a right to not see someone peaceably carrying a peacemaker?

Phillip Allen
08-18-2009, 12:03 PM
You have a right to not see someone peaceably carrying a peacemaker?

too subtle Milo...

LeeG
08-18-2009, 12:03 PM
um Milo, when you have points to make and want to use me as a foil you make it personal. ummmmkayyyyy?

I haven't condemned people who live in Az. and i haven't advocated taking peoples guns away. Basically you are making sh&t up or you identify with the people in the video so much you take my posting their intended media product as a personal attack and you responded in kind. One more time, you and I aren't the topic. Ummmkayyyyy?

BrianW
08-18-2009, 12:04 PM
One more time, you and I aren't the topic. Ummmkayyyyy?

Mr. Mackey?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BrianW/mackey.jpg

:D

John Smith
08-18-2009, 12:05 PM
Tom, how do you get the GOP in this?
You are pulling our legs, no?

It is the GOP that is helping, purposely, to rile up the fringe on the right. They are the ones who fester the death camp idea. They are the ones, mostly, in the pockets of the insurance industry.

Tom Montgomery
08-18-2009, 12:08 PM
BrianW: Someone on this thread labeled you "a neocon?" Where?

pefjr
08-18-2009, 12:09 PM
You have a right to not see someone peaceably carrying a peacemaker?I and others have a right to peaceably assemble and to petition......... Can you feel safe and in a protected environment if a person is walking around you with an automatic rifle??

Bill Lowe
08-18-2009, 12:09 PM
The gun carriers chould have been taken into custody, wisked off to gitmo and someday when we get around to it waterboarded to see if they are terrorists.

Milo Christensen
08-18-2009, 12:10 PM
And Milo, you have to understand that if guns are criminalized it will be quite easy to tell the criminals from the law abiding.

Thank you for pointing this out to me, elf. How obvious. I should have understood this years ago, shouldn't I? At about the time innocent people carrying guns became criminals only because they carried a gun.

John of Phoenix
08-18-2009, 12:14 PM
Packin' heat to a presidential presentation seems to be a violation of commons sense. There's a reason guns aren't allowed in courts, legislatures, capitols, police stations, schools and lots of other government buildings. It's not wise. No bitching about these buildings. Why not?

One would think a presidential presentation would be included in that category.

I think these guys are itching for a confrontation. They want to prove that Obama is out to take their guns by getting arrested.

LeeG
08-18-2009, 12:14 PM
AR15Chris having his Joe the Plumber moment: "I'm armed all the time, you'd be insane not to, it's a dangerous world out there, I can't carry a cop around with me"

Milo Christensen
08-18-2009, 12:15 PM
. . . Can you feel safe and in a protected environment if a person is walking around you with an automatic rifle??

Like around and around and around, like I'm the prey and they're the predator? No, that'd be pretty threatening, I'd drop down to the ground and cower, and cry and whine, don't shoot me, don't shoot me. Then I'd just shoot the bastard with my ankle gun. A guy like AR15 Chris on the other hand.

Edit: Dude, how neat is that, LeeG and I both decided to call the perp AR15 Chris at the very same time. Neat huh?

pefjr
08-18-2009, 12:15 PM
You are pulling our legs, no?

It is the GOP that is helping, purposely, to rile up the fringe on the right. They are the ones who fester the death camp idea. They are the ones, mostly, in the pockets of the insurance industry.
I don't see the GOP doing any of that, but I'm not blinded by the "party line" Step over it once in awhile John, it will not trip you.

Phillip Allen
08-18-2009, 12:15 PM
I and others have a right to peaceably assemble and to petition......... Can you feel safe and in a protected environment if a person is walking around you with an automatic rifle??

yes...if I don't assign magic to it

BrianW
08-18-2009, 12:17 PM
BrianW: Someone on this thread labeled you "a neocon?" Where?

What? You feeling a bit guilty?

:D

Reread the post, neither Joe nor I limited our exchange to this thread.

Nice try though.

LeeG
08-18-2009, 12:17 PM
Mr. Mackey?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BrianW/mackey.jpg

:D

I'm more Cartman, it's Milo explaining the dividing line between urban blue and the rest of his red in vague general terms.

Milo Christensen
08-18-2009, 12:20 PM
I'm more Cartman, it's Milo explaining the dividing line between urban blue and the rest of his red in vague general terms.

Ummm, how specific should I be? Would you like a list of cities, the urban blue, that have tried to pass unconstitutional bans of handgun ownership? That's Keith's job.

Tom Montgomery
08-18-2009, 12:24 PM
What? You feeling a bit guilty?

:D

Reread the post, neither Joe nor I limited our exchange to this thread.

Nice try though.

Hey, I'm just glad no one on this thread hung an offensive label on you. ;)

LeeG
08-18-2009, 12:27 PM
Ummm, how specific should I be? Would you like a list of cities, the urban blue, that have tried to pass unconstitutional bans of handgun ownership? That's Keith's job.

Could you do it like Glen Beck imitating Mr. Smith from the Matrix?

pefjr
08-18-2009, 12:30 PM
yes...if I don't assign magic to itPlease explain

Milo Christensen
08-18-2009, 12:33 PM
Could you do it like Glen Beck imitating Mr. Smith from the Matrix?

Time to have a nice tuna salad, marinated tomatoes, and a slice or two of lightly toasted French bread, buttered, for lunch. TTFN!

TomF
08-18-2009, 12:34 PM
Time to have a nice tuna salad, marinated tomatoes, and a slice or two of lightly toasted French bread, buttered, for lunch. TTFN!Yikes! Just don't sip any brie by accident ...

LeeG
08-18-2009, 12:44 PM
Jesus and a gun. Makes all the sense in the world. 911 was an inside job, vaccines=death and you'd be insane not to be armed all the time because it's a dangerous world in America.

http://freedomsphoenix.com/Show-Graphic.htm?EdNo=001&InfoNo=055733

Phillip Allen
08-18-2009, 12:45 PM
Please explain

the firearm has no special power...you are the one that gives it mystical power in your fear of it

I haven't got the patients to explain any better

LeeG
08-18-2009, 12:51 PM
or it gives you power and security, like a totem, against unknown dangers.

Robmill0605
08-18-2009, 12:51 PM
Is someone suggesting the Black Panthers were tolerated by law enforcement? Got a link to armed Black Panthers at polling places in 2008?


http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-137232

johnw
08-18-2009, 12:52 PM
Originally Posted by johnw http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2290543#post2290543)
So, you're okay with people showing up at the president's speaking engagements with weapons?....




I neither said, nor inferred, any such thing.

Bull.


Perhaps it was intended as a reminder that people are tired of left wing politicos attempting to take away their rights. A few others seem pleased with that.

You justified people bringing weapons to Obama events based on their imagining 'left-wing politicos' are trying to take away their rights. This year we've already had a right-wing wacko shoot a guard at the Holocaust Museum and another shoot an abortion doctor in church. Brian is right, of course, guns don't kill people, wackos with guns kill people. As for taking away peoples' rights, remember, we got the Brady bill after Reagan was shot. It's idiots with guns that lead to more gun control.

Showing up at these events with guns -- and with signs that say things like the tree of liberty needs watering -- is clearly intended to intimidate. And how long will it be until someone who is really, really wacko starts shooting?

It's not the politics of this that worries me. It's creating an environment where it's tough for the Secret Service to keep track of those individuals who might be a real threat.

Phillip Allen
08-18-2009, 12:53 PM
or it gives you power and security, like a totem, against unknown dangers.

what are you trying to say Lee...if your comment is directed toward me, I'd like to know. If it is NOT directed toward, context makes the reverse seem to be your intent

pefjr
08-18-2009, 01:01 PM
the firearm has no special power...you are the one that gives it mystical power in your fear of it

I haven't got the patients to explain any betterThat's good enough, I have heard that reasoning before. I disagree, and I have reasons(life experiences) to fear guns. I think it's an interference in a citizens right to peaceably assemble and no guns should be allowed anywhere near enough to intimidate anyone from feeling safe to go and discuss issues that concern them. Go out in the desert and exercise you right to love your gun.

john l
08-18-2009, 01:02 PM
i have trouble believing that those gun guys actually had ammo in the guns. if they did, the secret service would have no choice but to eliminate the potential threat. so the display was to prove a point for gun ownership which is a constitutional right. then what was their point other than invoking fear. i bet in time there will be acknowledgement that these gun guys had some connection/approval/right to assemble with local law enforcement which included a no ammo/weapon check for secret service ok. that gun display was either foolish or a candy arse empty display or both. i believe it has done more to hurt gun ownership than help it. i'd even compare it to those indecent
displays at gay parades for the sake of gay rights which also hurt the effort more than they help it.

LeeG
08-18-2009, 01:02 PM
Phillip, you were using pefjr conversationally so I did the same. If you do not like that it can easily be changed to "it gives one power and security, like a totem, against unknown dangers". I assumed your meaning was about the context of power and not pefjr, that is how I intended it as well. Please consider it in that context. If you cannot then maybe you shouldn't have used "you" towards pefjr.

LeeG
08-18-2009, 01:05 PM
. i believe it has done more to hurt gun ownership than help it. i'd even compare it to those indecent
displays at gay parades for the sake of gay rights which also hurt the effort more than they help it.


but if the intention is to reinforce the narrative of your particular peer group it would be effective. If that tends towards isolation it could be rationalized as the struggle against oppression by the majority.

Robmill0605
08-18-2009, 01:06 PM
They carry guns because they have a right to. The fact that you do not like it doesn't matter.
Furthermore, these protesters are nowhere near Obama since any public appearance of the President becomes federal and over rides the states right to open carry laws anywhere near him.

"Besides the advantage of being armed (http://www.law.ou.edu/ushistory/federalist/federalist-papers), which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation ... Notwithstanding the military establishments in the several kingdoms of Europe, which are carried as far as the public resources will bear, the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." James Madison, The Federalist 46


"Are we at last brought to such a humiliating and debasing degradation, that we cannot be trusted for our own defense? (http://www.tennesseefirearms.com/articles/rkba_important.asp) Where is the difference between having our arms in our possession and under our own direction, and having them under the management of Congress? If our defense be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?" Patrick Henry


"That the Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to infringe on the just liberty of the press or the rights of conscience; or to prevent "the people" of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms (http://www.tennesseefirearms.com/articles/rkba_important.asp)." Samuel Adams


"A free people ought ... to be armed (http://users.nac.net/topgun/quotes.html)." George Washington


"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked (http://www.tennesseefirearms.com/articles/rkba_important.asp) with greater confidence than an armed man." Thomas Jefferson


"If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no resource left but in the exertion of that original right of self-defense (http://www.law.ou.edu/ushistory/federalist/federalist-papers) which is paramount to all positive forms of government, and which against the usurpations of the national rulers, may be exerted with infinitely better prospect of success than against those of the rulers of an individual state." Alexander Hamilton, TheFederalist No. 28

Phillip Allen
08-18-2009, 01:06 PM
Lee

perhaps you are right...although he obviously has more fear of the gun than the man/woman...misplaced focus if you ask me

High C
08-18-2009, 01:09 PM
Bull.



You justified people bringing weapons to Obama events based on their imagining 'left-wing politicos' are trying to take away their rights. ....

Bull yourself. I justified nothing. I offered a possible answer to the question posed in the thread title.

What is it with you guys who attempt to make up both sides of an argument? Can't ever win one honestly? Not confident in your own arguments?

You clowns are really too much. :rolleyes:

elf
08-18-2009, 01:09 PM
The world had changed a lot since those guys discussed the role of guns in society. They didn't have zippers then.

bobbys
08-18-2009, 01:09 PM
I wish you people were so pizzed off when they wanted to give me ,a drug crazed long haired.17 year old a FULL auto gun and go kill some Vietnamese.

But NOOOOOOO i was to fill the dang Quota while others had a college deferment to sit out the war.{got a high number and missed it though}.

Some sat back and laughed at the blue collar boys that had to go.

Now im not to be trusted walking around with a gun when im a taxpayer{sumtimes lol}.

Phillip Allen
08-18-2009, 01:12 PM
I wish you people were so pizzed off when they wanted to give me ,a drug crazed long haired.17 year old a FULL auto gun and go kill some Vietnamese.

But NOOOOOOO i was to fill the dang Quota while others had a college deferment to sit out the war.{got a high number and missed it though}.

Some sat back and laughed at the blue collar boys that had to go.

Now im not to be trusted walking around with a gun when im a taxpayer{sumtimes lol}.

there are lots of liars in the world...the left is better at it perhaps because of longer practice

pcford
08-18-2009, 01:12 PM
Originally Posted by pefjr http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2291386#post2291386)
I and others have a right to peaceably assemble and to petition......... Can you feel safe and in a protected environment if a person is walking around you with an automatic rifle??

yes...if I don't assign magic to it

Idiotic. Would you feel safer in a restaurant in which everyone were packing heat?

john l
08-18-2009, 01:14 PM
"but if the intention is to reinforce the narrative of your particular peer group it would be effective. If that tends towards isolation it could be rationalized as the struggle against oppression by the majority."

i really don't want to get drawn into this thread - but i'll respond. yes perhaps this gun group will rally some followers, but even the response of pro gun guys
on the forum has suggested the stupidity of the idea of guns surrounding a president. btw the event was well documented and faces of folks with guns are
now on the walls of investigators. they are probably hoping that all gun wackos show up at these events. that way they can account for them and deal with them. it might even have a positive effect on responsible gun owners. round up the wackos and then there shouldn't be too much to fear. if that were
a plan it would be a fantastic one and the NRA should secretly support it.

Phillip Allen
08-18-2009, 01:16 PM
Idiotic. Would you feel safer in a restaurant in which everyone were packing heat?

safer or safe or as safe...got any more context for us?

LeeG
08-18-2009, 01:20 PM
Lee

perhaps you are right...although he obviously has more fear of the gun than the man/woman...misplaced focus if you ask me

let's try this. I'm at a "rally" and there's a collection of different groups and a few guys have guns on display. A few unarmed folks start getting confrontational and threatening to property and saying inciteful things. So the cops come in to handle the disruptive folks. Do you think the folks with guns present a greater or lesser threat to the cops and fellow protesters once heads start getting cracked?
Do the cops come in with pepper spray KNOWING there are guns in the crowd? Or do they wait until a few cars get vandalized? Or do they say over the bullhorns "all those with firearms take them out now and lay them on the ground".
Hell of a set of complications presented by the folks practicing their right to bear arms.

High C
08-18-2009, 01:20 PM
Idiotic. Would you feel safer in a restaurant in which everyone were packing heat?

In this particular restaurant, on this particular day...you bet your life I would've been safer.

Luby's massacre
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luby's_massacre

How many other massacres and mass murders could've been stopped by even a single armed person?

Phillip Allen
08-18-2009, 01:21 PM
here's one for ya...

"Of what are you afraid, my child?"
inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild,"
replied the timid creature.

elf
08-18-2009, 01:21 PM
I wish you people were so pizzed off when they wanted to give me ,a drug crazed long haired.17 year old a FULL auto gun and go kill some Vietnamese.
Many of us were.

Phillip Allen
08-18-2009, 01:22 PM
let's try this. I'm at a "rally" and there's a collection of different groups and a few guys have guns on display. A few unarmed folks start getting confrontational and threatening to property and saying inciteful things. So the cops come in to handle the disruptive folks. Do you think the folks with guns present a greater or lesser threat to the cops and fellow protesters once heads start getting cracked?
Do the cops come in with pepper spray KNOWING there are guns in the crowd? Or do they wait until a few cars get vandalized? Or do they say over the bullhorns "all those with firearms take them out now and lay them on the ground".
Hell of a set of complications presented by the folks practicing their right to bear arms.

you've altered the question...

John of Phoenix
08-18-2009, 01:23 PM
i have trouble believing that those gun guys actually had ammo in the guns. if they did, the secret service would have no choice but to eliminate the potential threat. so the display was to prove a point for gun ownership which is a constitutional right. then what was their point other than invoking fear. i bet in time there will be acknowledgement that these gun guys had some connection/approval/right to assemble with local law enforcement which included a no ammo/weapon check for secret service ok.
Actually I doubt they're checked. There would be quite a squawk about that. And besides, what's the point of an unloaded gun.

According to the local media, they're not allowed to carry inside the "security perimeter" nor does the motorcade go near them. Who knows how they avoid that.

Anyone familiar with the military and the tight control of weapons must be amazed by this. We'd inventory weapons in the arms room every day and god forbid anything was missing. Even a missing bayonet would be cause for a major lock down.

Phillip Allen
08-18-2009, 01:26 PM
Actually I doubt they're checked. There would be quite a squawk about that. And besides, what's the point of an unloaded gun.

According to the local media, they're not allowed to carry inside the "security perimeter" nor does the motorcade go near them. Who knows how they avoid that.

Anyone familiar with the military and the tight control of weapons must be amazed by this. We'd inventory weapons in the arms room every day and god forbid anything was missing. Even a missing bayonet would be cause for a major lock down.

a good point John...it would seem that the gun toters actually were NOT at a presidential function after all...they were soemwhere else...another example of a political lie perpetuated by the choir

John of Phoenix
08-18-2009, 01:27 PM
Originally Posted by bobbys http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2291469#post2291469)
I wish you people were so pizzed off when they wanted to give me ,a drug crazed long haired.17 year old a FULL auto gun and go kill some Vietnamese.

But NOOOOOOO i was to fill the dang Quota while others had a college deferment to sit out the war.{got a high number and missed it though}.

Some sat back and laughed at the blue collar boys that had to go.

Now im not to be trusted walking around with a gun when im a taxpayer{sumtimes lol}.

there are lots of liars in the world...the left is better at it perhaps because of longer practice

The guy's talking about the draft. How the hell can you make that into a lefty slam?

BTW, I see you no longer pretend to be a centrist.

LeeG
08-18-2009, 01:28 PM
"but if the intention is to reinforce the narrative of your particular peer group it would be effective. If that tends towards isolation it could be rationalized as the struggle against oppression by the majority."

i really don't want to get drawn into this thread - but i'll respond. yes perhaps this gun group will rally some followers, but even the response of pro gun guys
on the forum has suggested the stupidity of the idea of guns surrounding a president. btw the event was well documented and faces of folks with guns are
now on the walls of investigators. they are probably hoping that all gun wackos show up at these events. that way they can account for them and deal with them. it might even have a positive effect on responsible gun owners. round up the wackos and then there shouldn't be too much to fear. if that were
a plan it would be a fantastic one and the NRA should secretly support it.

of course the majority of folks are rational, as are most gun owners. I don't think the NRA would support infilitration of citizens groups who support the right to bear arms.

pcford
08-18-2009, 01:31 PM
In this particular restaurant, on this particular day...you bet your life I would've been safer.

Luby's massacre
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luby's_massacre (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luby%27s_massacre)

How many other massacres and mass murders could've been stopped by even a single armed person?

You did not answer the question, High, maybe your brain is suffering from dining at Mickey D's.

Would you feel safer if _everyone_ in a restaurant were armed? If one gun is good, a few dozen ought to be better, right?

As for me, I think it is impossible to separate the gun/sex thing. Some of these gun nuts have not been lucky since the second Eisenhower administration. Wouldn't it be better and cheaper just to hire specialists to take care of their problem?

bobbys
08-18-2009, 01:32 PM
Many of us were..

Yes i realize that.

Phillip Allen
08-18-2009, 01:32 PM
The guy's talking about the draft. How the hell can you make that into a lefty slam?

BTW, I see you no longer pretend to be a centrist.

Really? Go ahead, ask me if I try to stay in the center...

Phillip Allen
08-18-2009, 01:34 PM
You did not answer the question, High, maybe your brain is suffering from dining at Mickey D's.

Would you feel safer if _everyone_ in a restaurant were armed? If one gun is good, a few dozen ought to be better, right?

As for me, I think it is impossible to separate the gun/sex thing. Some of these gun nuts have not been lucky since the second Eisenhower administration. Wouldn't it be better and cheaper just to hire specialists to take care of their problem?

interesting set of conditions...everyone or no one...can't find any middle ground can ya? makes you an extremist I guess

pefjr
08-18-2009, 01:37 PM
Lee

perhaps you are right...although he obviously has more fear of the gun than the man/woman...misplaced focus if you ask me
No, I fear the man carrying the gun.

John of Phoenix
08-18-2009, 01:37 PM
First explain about the lefty remark. How did you get from a comment about the draft to "the left has more practice lying"?

Phillip Allen
08-18-2009, 01:39 PM
First explain about the lefty remark. How did you get from a comment about the draft to "the left has more practice lying"?

I was thinking about another thread that suggests that the left doesn't lie but the right does...I'll look it up for ya if I get around to it but I think you already know which one

Phillip Allen
08-18-2009, 01:40 PM
No, I fear the man carrying the gun.

one wouldn't know by your words...so you're afraid of the cops eating at the resturants you eat at?

High C
08-18-2009, 01:43 PM
You did not answer the question, High, maybe your brain is suffering from dining at Mickey D's....

Haven't been in a Mickey D's in decades, and I did answer your question. The answer is yes, and I even cited a perfect example as to why.

You have no idea how many armed people are around you every day, do you? It's a lot more than you think.

John of Phoenix
08-18-2009, 01:43 PM
Phillip you are making ZERO sense here and on other htreads as well.

Take care of yourself. Out.

stevebaby
08-18-2009, 01:45 PM
http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-137232A black man shows up at a polling place with a nightstick and this is "armed intimidation of voters" and the police order him to leave.
A white man shows up at a Presidental meeting with a handgun and this is exercising his 2nd amendment rights.
It just won't go away, will it?

Phillip Allen
08-18-2009, 01:46 PM
Phillip you are making ZERO sense here and on other htreads as well.

Take care of yourself. Out.

fer gosh sakes John...try and keep up will ya?

I write as though I were speaking to adults
I write as though everyone has read their homework


perhaps I shouldn't, but I do just the same

Phillip Allen
08-18-2009, 01:47 PM
A black man shows up at a polling place with a nightstick and this is "armed intimidation of voters" and the police order him to leave.
A white man shows up at a Presidental meeting with a handgun and this is exercising his 2nd amendment rights.
It just won't go away, will it?

I think it's been extablished that the man with the gun WAS NOT at a presidential function...

johnw
08-18-2009, 01:48 PM
Bull yourself. I justified nothing. I offered a possible answer to the question posed in the thread title.

What is it with you guys who attempt to make up both sides of an argument? Can't ever win one honestly? Not confident in your own arguments?

You clowns are really too much. :rolleyes:

So you don't think bringing guns is justified? Sure sounds like it. You're the one arguing both sides here. I've been completely consistent; I don't think it's a good idea to bring guns to a presidential event.

So tell us, do you think it's a good idea?

John Smith
08-18-2009, 01:50 PM
I don't see the GOP doing any of that, but I'm not blinded by the "party line" Step over it once in awhile John, it will not trip you.
YOu may not be blinded, but I think your eyes are closed.

Much of the current town hall disruption has been carefully, dot by dot, linked to Dick Army.

Newt Gingrich referenced something where the show host had to remind him it wasn't in the bill, but Newt kept on going.

I've seen Palin, Grassly, and other republicans tell us Obama wants to kill old people.

If these people don't represent the GOP, if Hannity, Beck, and Limbaugh don't speak for the GOP, where is the GOP denouncing them?


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#32380712

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#32424387

TomF
08-18-2009, 01:51 PM
there are lots of liars in the world...the left is better at it perhaps because of longer practiceClearly, you need to post some more on my other thread, Phillip.

pefjr
08-18-2009, 01:52 PM
They carry guns because they have a right to. The fact that you do not like it doesn't matter.


Furthermore, these protesters are nowhere near Obama since any public appearance of the President becomes federal and over rides the states right to open carry laws anywhere near him.

"Besides the advantage of being armed (http://www.law.ou.edu/ushistory/federalist/federalist-papers), which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation ... Notwithstanding the military establishments in the several kingdoms of Europe, which are carried as far as the public resources will bear, the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." James Madison, The Federalist 46


"Are we at last brought to such a humiliating and debasing degradation, that we cannot be trusted for our own defense? (http://www.tennesseefirearms.com/articles/rkba_important.asp) Where is the difference between having our arms in our possession and under our own direction, and having them under the management of Congress? If our defense be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?" Patrick Henry


"That the Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to infringe on the just liberty of the press or the rights of conscience; or to prevent "the people" of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms (http://www.tennesseefirearms.com/articles/rkba_important.asp)." Samuel Adams


"A free people ought ... to be armed (http://users.nac.net/topgun/quotes.html)." George Washington


"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked (http://www.tennesseefirearms.com/articles/rkba_important.asp) with greater confidence than an armed man." Thomas Jefferson


"If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no resource left but in the exertion of that original right of self-defense (http://www.law.ou.edu/ushistory/federalist/federalist-papers) which is paramount to all positive forms of government, and which against the usurpations of the national rulers, may be exerted with infinitely better prospect of success than against those of the rulers of an individual state." Alexander Hamilton, TheFederalist No. 28

You are quoting wallet heros that had a need for guns. They killed Native Americans, kept the slaves in line and from running away and they hunted for food. We don't kill Native Americans anymore, nor do we have slaves to keep in line, and we do not need to hunt for food. We can easily do without guns. Give me a modern day need for guns in hands of citizens at political events.

High C
08-18-2009, 01:53 PM
So you don't think bringing guns is justified? Sure sounds like it. You're the one arguing both sides here. I've been completely consistent; I don't think it's a good idea to bring guns to a presidential event.

So tell us, do you think it's a good idea?

Of course not. :rolleyes:

But what these jokers did was legal. It appears they were nowhere near the Presidential event. They didn't get in anyone's face and yell and scream the way organized left wing nuts are doing at townhall meetings. The Secret Service didn't seem particularly alarmed, but a good idea? Certainly not.

Phillip Allen
08-18-2009, 01:54 PM
Clearly, you need to post some more on my other thread, Phillip.

really? :)

Keith Wilson
08-18-2009, 01:55 PM
[quote]They didn't get in anyone's face and yell and scream the way organized left wing nuts are doing at townhall meetings.quote]Eh? Did you just make this up, or has the left started to yell and scream too now? Oh, joy. Just what we need.

John of Phoenix
08-18-2009, 01:55 PM
They didn't get in anyone's face and yell and scream the way leftists nuts are doing at townhall meetings.

Shameless. Fear, hate and lies.

Phillip Allen
08-18-2009, 01:59 PM
poo-pooing the obvious guys?