a boat drawn by a dreamer

[peterAustralia]

I admit to being a bit bored today and thought of drawing up what my next boat should look like. Please ask me no questions about when I will build it, because I do not have a good answer.

Some context. The boat is drawn up to meet a specific design requirement:
'A craft that is seaworthy enough to cruise the SE coast of Australia, can sleep one person aboard in shelter if desired, and be able to land through moderate surf onto a beach and be taken up above the high tide mark by one person.'

Also note from experience the maximum mass that I can drag up a beach is about 85kg or so, maybe others can do more. So my 'dreamers boat' is designed to be broken into 2 parts. One part 18ft main hull, second part 16ft outrigger and crossbeams. Individually it ought be reasonable for one person to drag them up a beach.

I have a present boat but it aint much good. The one shown is similar in overall layout, but improved in detail.

for your amusement... here goes
http://www.tacking-outrigger.com/replacement_boat.html

n peter evans

[Hwyl]

Always got to throw in a Gary Dierking link http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/garyd/

[Chip-skiff]

Looks like you've thought quite a lot about it.

One thought on the rig. If you choose a sprit, you might want to make the sprit longer and set the forward end lower on the mast, so you can use a brailing line (which draws the sprit up against the mast and douses the sail. I sketched a rig similar to the one in your drawing and Todd Bradshaw (a sailmaker who posts on WBF from time to time) suggested this to me.

[WX]

Peter Have you considered a Junk rig? it will be easier to manage and you will be able to carry more sail for light airs. With camber built into the panels these sails are really quite efficient.
http://proafile.com/images/news/brett_proa.jpg

[Thorne]

Peter -

Your present boat, which was 'developed' with a lot of online help both here and on the Dory Yahoo group, followed a common pattern. The killer rep of the Bank Dory was the lure, but the lack of stability and poor sailing elements ended up with you adding an outrigger and ama.

You may find that other boats, better designed for actual sailing and surf work, won't need the outrigger and ama. Also it may get seriously in the way when launching / landing through the surf -- others will need to address that as I have zero experience with that.

From the initial description, the Welsford Walkabout might meet your needs -
http://www.jwboatdesigns.co.nz/plans/walkabout/profile.gif
http://www.jwboatdesigns.co.nz/plans/walkabout/index.htm

[floatingkiwi]

Quote(Also note from experience the maximum mass that I can drag up a beach is about 85kg or so, maybe others can do more. So my 'dreamers boat' is designed to be broken into 2 parts. One part 18ft main hull, second part 16ft outrigger and crossbeams. Individually it ought be reasonable for one person to drag them up a beach.)


With a good winch and logs to roll on, one man could safely and with relative ease, get a boat such as this, up a sandy beach, without having to resort to the drastic measure of breaking it into more than one piece.

[Captain Blight]

I've thought a couple birds-mouthed spars might be a handy thing for Raid boats to have; when not being used as hiking sticks, they could be used as beach rollers. Have you given any thought to making your crossbeams like this?

[Thorne]

Fat inflatable fenders can be used as beach rollers as well as for flotation, works well on everything but really soft, dry sand.

[peterAustralia]

hi

Thanks for the pointers, Yes I know of skiffs, like the walkabout. I do worry about the ability to get through surf. If you look at the cape falcon kayak outrigger canoe, you can see on that page the sort of surf that an outrigger canoe can cope with.

I do worry that a skiff, when laden comes onto a beach, what it can cope with, especially if it comes off a wave and hits the sand. I used to sail a small cat right onto the beach with zero problems, very stable, very easy. A skiff coming through the surf zone may be at risk of broaching.

I also feel that out at sea that the outrigger canoe will be able to deal with greater windspeeds, before having to give up on sailing (this is an assumption). To meet the design goal a good skiff would have to be without ballast, so how will a skiff without ballast cope in a rough sea a mile or so offshore. I am confident that the outrigger canoe could cope with a lot.

I say this based on Micromegas 3, the 2 french brothers that crossed the Atlantic in a craft only 2ft longer than my proposed replacement boat. To do a similar voyage in a skiff without ballast, may be possible, but in my opinion would have higher risk.

To crossbeams. Well I made mine simply and cheaply enough. I know that I heavily over-engineered them. Next set of crossbeams would be scaled down, maybe 90% height and 90% width of my present beams. to save on weight. My thoughts are that any extra weight of a crossbeams adds a degree to stability for when the outrigger works as a counterweight.

I am not confident of making the entire outrigger canoe light enough, whilst still retaining the structural strength to manhandle it single handed. If I did skin on frame that would be light enough, would it be strong enough to do what I want? Maybe I could try rollers, could rollers work with 120kg or more?

The assembly - dis-assembly method shown is based on what I tried before but modified to make it much faster. No mucking around trying to find the correct bolt. Maybe I am being overly optimistic, but separating the 2 hulls ought be able to be done in 7 or 8 minutes. Maybe butterfly nuts as first nut, hex nut as second. When getting close to shore, undo all the hex nuts to speed up the time, whilst ashore.

I guess what it comes down to is that I just like the outrigger canoe option. I like that it is more enclosed and less open (yes I know some skiffs are mostly enclosed, such as that fellow that makes the Melonseed boats ans swampscott dory boats)

I put up the post for a couple of reasons. One to give others something new to looks at, secondly to get some pointers if I had done it OK. Was the freeboard to high or too low, the mast too far aft or forward, rudder big enough or not. If I had the money I would build it now, unfortunately I do not... sigh..

peter

[boatbear]

An excellent dream, Peter. A craft designed to suit your needs - a beach hoppin' adventure boat. Your approach is very Australian and I like it a lot. There are so many beaches out there .....

Sorry, I can't help with the tech questions; I've never played with a boat with an outrigger. WX's suggestion about the junk rig may be a good one to explore. I did have a boat with a sprit rig, and it was tough going to windward.

Your train of thought is clearly presented and a lot of the detail work is already done. I love the simplicity of the dagger-board arrangement. I look forward to seeing whatever progress you make. Push on.

[Paul Fitzgerald]

Why not use inflatable beach rollers, and just lash them inside the boat for floatation?

[peterAustralia]

hi

If rollers will work, then all well and good. but will they work with 130kg? My point is that breaking into 2 parts takes say 3 minutes, putting back together say 8 minutes. How far up the beach, say 90 mile beach near Lakes Entrance, you would want to go up 20 yards or so? Would it be much fun with rollers? If I use block and tackle, I will need to spend 10 minutes hammering in a stake to secure the rope as there are not too many good purchase points in sand dunes.

I had these wild ideas of retractable tricycle undercarriage (or just 2 wheels), but that is a bit too daft. Getting carried away with what Stephen K Roberts did with his microship.com boats (he used 4wheels with suspension!)

In this thread, some positive comments, some comments along the lines of build this sort of skiff... A skin on frame outrigger canoe has potential, I just wonder if it would be strong enough for the ocean. I have seen a photo of a 23ft proa, long and sleek like a big surf ski, but the central 8ft area was raised about 12 inches. The point being that as the ends were all covered it was fine for waves to wash over them. The one downside is that I find I need a lot of gear. With low kayak like ends would I have enough storage space?

What sort of voyage am I talking about.

Example, I get to some remote beach or inlet, I tie my boat up. I put locks on the hatches and a polite note saying "this is my boat, back in a few days, would appreciate it if you leave it as you found it". Then I go bushwalking into the outdoors for 4 or 5 days, come back to the boat, sail to the next town, refresh with a shower, nice bed and good food, a beer for medicinal purposes, then head off again.

Where would I go, all the Victorian coast, maybe Flinders island when there is a good weather window, maybe NE tassie, love to see the Tarkine and more. NZ is just too far, catch the plane for that

so now you all know my dream. Recently I heard of a fellow is doing this right now, somewhere up North of Cairns (remote northern Australia). He has a 20ft aluminium tacking outrigger with 60 degree chines. I take this to mean in mid-section the boat is an equilateral triange shape. I have his name and a photo of the hull and outrigger, but not with rig. So can be done... just need right boat..

In this thread I take it to be a good thing that no one said;
the bow was too low.. or too high....
the Vee was too steep or otherwise...
rocker was all off....
mast was all wrong...
the hull was too wide..too narrow... etc etc.

I am not sure about the rig. Maybe sprit and jib, maybe standing lugsail and jib (which points higher?). I know with a jib is hard to have a rotating mast, means I have to adjust tension on some thingy on each tack, yes?

thanks for the tips... I think I will close this thread tomorrow, do not want it to waffle...

peter

[bucheron]

thanks for the tips... I think I will close this thread tomorrow, do not want it to waffle...


I just want to get in before you do that, I like the rudder a lot more than what you had on the dory.