Historic photo - small crafts?

[bholderman]

Greetings,

My small craft knowledge is rather pitiful, so I was wondering if anyone could help me with the types of small craft in this photo.

Listing to starboard in his pic is the USS Bennington whose boiler exploded in San Diego on July 21st 1905.

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p267/bradholderman/P-02990sized.jpg

[Yeadon]

Well .. here goes nothing ...

On the right, a dory with a sail rig.
At the bow of the Bennington, some type of gig.
To the left, a catboat.
To the left (up close), a sweet gaff-rigged double ended sloop with a plumb bow.

[mizzenman]

Could the double ender be a log-canoe? The rig looks wrong but...

[P.L.Lenihan]

Or perhaps a converted lifeboat?


Cheers!


Peter

[nedL]

Any idea where the picture was taken? That may help identify the double ender a bit better. Based on the banks dory & catboat I'm thinking New England, but could be farther south on the east coast. (Both the dory & cat being indiginous to N.E.)

[Daniel Noyes]

Greetings,

My small craft knowledge is rather pitiful, so I was wondering if anyone could help me with the types of small craft in this photo.

Listing to starboard in his pic is the USS Bennington whose boiler exploded in San Diego on July 21st 1905.

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p267/bradholderman/P-02990sized.jpg

Can we assume this is a photo of the damaged boat after boiler explosion (listing to starboard) ?
if so Sandiego 1905...I do not know the harbour.
the two boats at the Bennongton are likely ships boats or yard boats from repair co.
the Cat boat has a small sprit and if it raised a jib it could be a type of Noank sloop like boat...it is not a "Cape Cod Cat"

the boat in the foreground almost looks like a Felucca (sp?) or as Chapelle "Dago fishing boat" mabey the italian style hull with the lateene sail replaced by a gaff rig, jib and main sail
Dan

[Thorne]

Dan, that was my initial reaction too about the boat in the left foreground, but now I'm not sure.

Here's a photo of SF Feluccas -
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5a/SF_felluca_from_NARA_115.jpg

[TerryLL]

If this photo is indeed San Diego in 1905 then there are a couple of logical possibilities for the boat in the left foreground. Feluccas, already mentioned, were common on the West Coast from the late 1800s. The hull fits, and if it carried a lateen rig there would be no doubt. Another option would be the Columbia River Salmon boat, which later evolved into the Bristol Bay gillnetter. Neither of these boats as a rule carried a gaff rig, but rigs are easily changed.

It appears the boat is set up with raised oar locks, indicating side decking. Both the Felucca and the Colmbia River/Bristol Bay boats were side-decked and set up for rowing.

[TimH]

Similar to a mackinaw boat, but the catboat and dory say downeast.

http://www.woodenboat.com/wbstore/images/medium/400014.jpg

[Canoeyawl]

Not a Felucca -Thats a gaff rig, mast rakes forward on a lateen

Cool picture, It just might be Butcher Boy, the magazine article should clarify the build date but, I would ask the San Diego museum folks.
It's a good reason to go visit.

[bholderman]

Yes, it is San Diego, 1905, sorry, I had thought I put that in the first post. I volunteer for the museum, in fact thats where the photo came from. Felucca was my first thought on the boat in the foreground, but even my minimal skills caused me to doubt that.

[bholderman]

Theres something about the old dockside photos...


Dan, that was my initial reaction too about the boat in the left foreground, but now I'm not sure.

Here's a photo of SF Feluccas -
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5a/SF_felluca_from_NARA_115.jpg

[TerryLL]

Not a Felucca -Thats a gaff rig, mast rakes forward on a lateen.

Any possibility that it is a Felucca hull that had been converted to the gaff rig? I think we all agree that the boat is not rigged as a Felucca. Is the lateen rig required for it to be a Felucca?

[bholderman]

Im confident that its not Butcher Boy, she always has a covered deck with name plates on the stern.


The double-ender in the foreground sort of resembles "BUTCHER BOY", which has featured in WB IIRC (or was it Classic Boat?).

[Thorne]

If it is Butcher Boy, it has a different bowsprit, rudder, and no cabin -- all of which of course could have been added later -
http://www.ybw.com/albums/top_200_classic_boats/agj.sized.jpg

[nedL]

OK, now that we know this is San Diego... (I was reading it as the boiler explosion was added info, and seeing the picture as maybe she was hove down to starboard a bit to make the coaling process easier - looks like it could be a coaling operation going on along side.)
One of my thoughts too was of a felucca in the forground, but I didn't think the lines are exadurated enough. - I'm goin got leave it up to you west coast guys. :)

[Bob Triggs]

Dont let the yankee looking dorys fool you in this picture above; there were many light sailing dorys, and even alphas and beachcombers, in the pacific racing and work sailing scene by the 1900's.

[klondike]

My grandfather related how he and my great-grandfather rowed out to
visit the Bennington when she visited Tacoma, Washington in the early 1890's. He remembered the visit so well because on the way home a very large salmon jumped in their boat.

[Jay Greer]

The changes to "Butcher Boy" were made by my mentor Rolly Kalijian when he owned her back in the forties. Rolly added the deck house, new rudder shape and changed the rig. The boat was overhauled by the San Diego Maritime Museum to a more original appearance. However, it is my belief that the boat in its first days was as is seen in the picture as there was no need for a deck structure in realation to the job that it was designed for. That is being first to an incoming ship in order to obtain the contract for the provisioning of meat. This boat was then and is still now, the fastest boat for its size in San Diego Bay, a distinction that it has held for over a hundred years!
Jay
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9d635b3127ccec788127962a800000040O00QYsmrNy5bsQ e3nwg/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

[floatingkiwi]

That boat in the foreground is a double ender some guy,( like you or me), got a hold of and put a new everything on it and man I bet it FLIES.

[bholderman]

Jay,

I mentioned this in a PM to you, but Butcher Boy was prepping for her defense in the Lipton Cup, which was just weeks after the Bennington explosion. As I have metioned, my small craft knowledge is pitiful, but this still looks like a work boat that is working in some fashion.

Still, the resemblence to BB minus the deckhouse is pretty amazing. Perhaps the design caught on, was copied, etc as BB became a racing yacht?

[Jay Greer]

Brad, I seem to recall that, for the Lipton Cup race you mention, the "poor old Butcher Boy" was given nearly an hour handicap in order to compete fairly against the modern racing craft in the fleet that would, supposedly leave her in their wake. "Butcher Boy" then proceeded to lap the entire fleet around San Diego Bay and placed first boat for boat in the race! So much for out dated designs!

I was at the Museum in San Diego yesterday and saw BB sitting on the barge. I am making arrangements to study and measure the boat for the purpose of making a full set of archival and construction drawings.
Jay

[TimH]

Who names their boat "Butcher Boy"? crazy...

[Canoeyawl]

The man that delivers the "beef"

[Thorne]

I'd guess that Butcher Boy would be a period term for the lad (or man) who delivers fresh meat -- not a bad name for a nimble boat delivering meat to ships in the harbor.

[Jay Greer]

Who names their boat "Butcher Boy"? crazy...
Please Sir, allow me to bring you up on the facts that have spanned the last 100 plus years as to the history of the amazing commercial sloop "Butcher Boy".

When San Diego Bay was the first American port of entry for ships sailing around the Horn to reach San Francisco and bring miners and supplies for the California Gold Rush, the first boat for meat packers, crimps, bakers and vegetable proveyors to an incoming clipper or other tall ship was awarded the provisioning contract. The builder and owner of the sloop "Butcher Boy" was undefeated in its intended purose in all of the great years of sail and then thereafter in San Diego Bay. In 1947, the famous California Yachtsman Frank Pedder commisioned boat builder Rolly Kalijian of Newport Beach California to take the lines from the origninal boat and expand them out to 36 feet in order to construct a yawl to compete in the Transpac race. Unfortunatly Mr. Pedder passed on and the boat, "Butcher Boy II" was never able to compete. However the boat was purchased by my father's business partner, Roy E. Riley, and was very active in Southern California racing in the years to come and proved to be a formitable match racer against the Q boat "Cotton Blossom II" which is now owned by Americas Cup Skipper and former Commodore of the San Diego Yacht Club, Dennis Conner.
"Butcher Boy II" beat the slippery Q boat on a regular basis. The hull form is one that has proven to provide great speed for over a century. I would be embarrased and remiss not to refer to the boat by her righfull and historic name, "BUTCHER BOY". I can honestly see no reason to refer to her by any other name.
Jay

[Chipito]

The SD maritime museum used to have a lines drawing of BB. We sold a few after the WB article. I can't remember who took the lines but I'm sure there has never been a construction drawing. I was just starting to work there when Ken Reynard was changing the boat from it's yacht configuration to it's original form.

[Thad]

Great stuff Guys, Jay and all. Fun to see those lines and the construction!

[Daniel Noyes]

Butcher Boy is an "americanized" Felucca?!
cool !
I had seen photos of the boat during it's restoration and as someone pretty familiar with NE sailing craft was a bit puzzled by the hull, particularly the stern. She looks very yankee in the details but the hul shape is foreign...literally!

The sloop rigged Felucca in the photo must be a predecessor, the original Medeteranian style hull form with the American sail plan.

Dan