Repower recommendations

[CFarrah]

All,

First let me say happy holidays. Winter is upon us on the NH seacoast and it is snowing outside.

I need some advice. We are looking at repowering Mercury with diesel engines. Currently we have twin 1953 331 Hemi's in the boat, but have been plagued with fuel problems and reliability issues despite there good condition.

With 2 kids and a flegling charter business, I think we are better off served with diesel engines. Of course, the purist in me curses the thought, but after having replaced fuel tanks at the end of the season, I'm convinced this is the way to go.

I'm interested in a yard in either Maine or Mass to do the work on the boat. I want to work with someone who will give me an all-in price to do the work, and is capable of working with a boat of Merc's vintage and history (she can be seen at www.yachtmercury.com). (http://www.yachtmercury.com).) I'm pretty sure we are looking at either high 4 or low 6 cylinder engines with integral V-Drives.

The 2 yards I have talked to each have different issues. 1 wants to lift with a travellift and put in a 4 stroke Yanmar, the other wants to use a trailer, install a 6 stroke, but is 2 times the price of the first. Neither one does this as a regular course of business...

I don't want to screw this up. Words of advice?

Regards,

Cliff

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

Yes, the diesel would provide you with some advantages and a cost saving, but why don't you tell us about your fuel and reliability problems? Some of those can be dealt with more easily than you think.

If someone is not familiar with repowers then they're not familiar with repowers. Find another yard.

I suspect you can solve your reliability problems for a lot less than repowering (an understatement) Those old 331's were pretty solid.

If you have fuel pump and carb problems a refit could be done, and away you go.

[ 12-07-2004, 01:00 PM: Message edited by: Peter Malcolm Jardine ]

[CFarrah]

Peter,

Put in new tanks, new lines, new spin on fiters, new fuel pumps and a refit with modern Ford F150 straight 6 carbs. The issue we have now is overheating due to either:

1) Cracked head (pray not)
2) Blown seals
3) Heat exchangers have a leak
4) Mystery ailment

I'm having a local mechanic with classic engine experience take a look at it before we decide on the course of action.

I agree that this is another bath, but having had a few gas scares with the kids on board, I really need it to be right.

The toughest part is that I have virtually every spare part for the motors and v drives that came with the boat...

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

Sometimes in old engines that have no bypass cooling system, the block itself can clog up with crap and corrosion, making it hard for the water to flow. Sometimes overheating can be a obstruction, (oh god make it that simple) I assume you've checked water pump impellers, sometimes they explode and leave chunks of the impeller blocking a cooling line.

The other stuff can happen too of course, but if you have invested in all the other parts you've mentioned, you are well on your way. I always look at mechanical stuff as relatively finite. I rebuilt both of my 40 year old 283's and yes, I did experience a few glitches afterwards, but now all is well, and I can move on to other things.

[CFarrah]

Peter,

Has a dual cooling system installed by the previous owner eons ago. The overheating is caused by massive coolant loss. It is not an obvious issue.

I've had one mechanic look at it and charge me $1k to tell me it was one of those problems I listed above. I'm about to pay $500 for a better answer from a new mechanic who is supposed to be a classic motor guru.

The flaw is on the freshwater side of the system. The pumps are fine on both the raw and fresh water side.

Feel as though I'm bleeding to death...Hopefully I'll have a better answer soon.

Regards,

Cliff.

[Ken Hutchins]

Another overheat possibility is electrical. Is the timing correct and is the spark advance working? A timing problem could have an engine boiling in a few minutes of running.

[CFarrah]

Timing is correct...put in electronic ignition system last winter.

The issue is that the fresh water system is going bone dry within 5 minutes of starting the engine. No visible leaks can be found...

[chucksw]

Sounds like a bad heat exchanger. Take the heat exchanger to a radiator shop and have it tested. They develop holes over time between the tubes and sounds like the freshwater side is emptying into the raw water side and out the exhaust.

[CFarrah]

Will do. Thanks for the advice.

[brad9798]

How about a thermostat?

Yea, sounds like heat exchanger ... the classic guru of which you speak should be able to pinpoint it.

I've got raw water cooling ... and when I had those problems it was the impellers that needed replacing ...

I'd personally bleed quite a bit before I dropped five figures into a diesel re-power! Patience is what's being tried right now ... just keep telling yourself it's better to spend a few grand than 20+!

[Mike Vogdes]

What Chuck said. If your loosing that much that fast, its most likely going out the exhaust.

[kulas44]

I agree with all that has been posted, but, there's a pair of yanmars on ebay right now that are lookin good. If it was my family i'd have diesels. I recently repowered a 41ft. boat from 454s to 310 hp. 6.5 chevy diesels for less than 12 grand, new everything, not rebuilt, hurth 630 gears, heat exchangers, you name it , all new. Your yards are screwing you, typical of boat yards. If you know what you are doing you don't get screwed.

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

Sheese... the guy charges you 1k to tell you what could be wrong. :mad:

and yep... that much coolant could only be going out through the heat exchanger I figure.

I agree with what has been said about diesels, but in the interest of purity (hell, we wouldn't even own wooden boats if we didn't have some interest in purity) there are lots of reliable safe gas installations. I kept my 283's because they're easy to understand, and original to the boat. People often want a 50 year old boat because they're interested in it being 50 years old. Good luck.

[ 12-07-2004, 07:59 PM: Message edited by: Peter Malcolm Jardine ]

[Gary E]

With 2 kids and a flegling charter business, I think we are better off served with diesel engines. That speaks volumes to me...
Diesels are the ONLY way.. make sure you have room for what you want as the height of the engines will no doubt require building boxes or raising the deck.

[brad9798]

I don't get screwed by my yard, as I do know what I'm doing.

I'm with you PMJ, I'll take my 40-year-old 283 blocks any day of the week.

And, I can't leave without jumping on one of my pet peeves: sure, diesel tends to be a bit safer if you look at worldwide stats ... but I love it when folks imply (not in thread necessarily, but in general) that I am doing a disservice to my family's saftety with gas ... :rolleyes:

[CFarrah]

All,

Glad to have sparked a good discussion. That said, any insight on yards that specialize in repowering activity in Maine/NH/MA seacoast?

Cliff

[Paul Scheuer]

Wouldn't there be a dye or tracer that could go in the fresh water as a test to see where it ends up ?

[sbsbw]

CFarrah it seams that you have decided that you want to go with diesel. the other formites belive that you should stay with gas.

Just wantted to say what i thought i saw was going on.

also my two cents, i agree with the repower to diesel, especailly if you are going to charter. I personally belive that diesels are much more relialbe for engins then gas. and regardless and the fact of the matter is that a being dilligent can prevent explostions on gas powered boats.

SBSBW

[chucksw]

Up here in Washington state we have a bunch of yards such as Port Townsend and marine trade firms that cluster around the yards.

I asked around and the same company/individual was mentioned by fellow boaters and chandlers in the area. I would call this person to handle the job or any future repairs. I did this for engines, woodwork, sails, rigging, electrical, etc. So I have a short list of the reliable tradespeople to work on my boat.

So that's how I would do it in your case. Ask around your area and see who pops up on the radar screen. They typically will have a few different engine lines and can steer you in the right direction. They can also do repairs as well.

The other way is to research a couple engine lines and call or visit the regional engine dealers like the Yanmar office in Mass or New Hampshire and find out who handles their local work in your specific neighborhood where you keep the vessel.

PS: If I was putting in a new diesel I would seriously consider a John Deere or CAT or other US based. First keep our $$ and jobs here. 2nd we are getting screwed now because of the value of the US dollar is low against the Euro and Yen.

Chuck