PDA

View Full Version : Favorite warship design and class?



Pirate-at-heart
08-08-2009, 10:00 AM
Across of of maritime history, leading back away to the days of early Viking explorers, up until this new revolution in 'stealth' frigates and destroyers, what specific design and class of warship MOST gets your spirit of adventure on the high seas rolling?

Sloops of the 18th century Royal Navy?
A ship-of-the-line?
The German U-Boat?
Big American Battleships?
The Carriers? (bleah)
WW2-era British Destroyers?
Patrol Torpedo boats of the South Pacific?

theres so many... I know its hard to pick one.

But if I could command any single ship or boat in history...


But if I could pick just one...
I'd pick a small armed sloop from the British Navy of 1800 or so.

Captain Blight
08-08-2009, 10:01 AM
I'm kind of partial to the early British coal-fired torpedo boats.

John Smith
08-08-2009, 11:14 AM
I'm not so sure I wouldn't want one of the small launches or lifeboats.

A landing craft? An amphibious duck?

rbgarr
08-08-2009, 11:17 AM
Trireme!! Pull until your eyes burst from their sockets!!

Sam F
08-08-2009, 11:34 AM
USS Nahant, Passaic-class. It was slow, even for it's day, but in the right environment highly effective:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/21/USSNahant1862.jpg

Paul Pless
08-08-2009, 11:43 AM
Dunno.... maybe one of the British built CSS raiders... Shenandoah or Alabama.

Captain Blight
08-08-2009, 11:52 AM
USS Nahant, Passaic-class. It was slow, even for it's day, but in the right environment highly effective:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/21/USSNahant1862.jpg

Someone save this as evidence Mr F has more on his mind besides what he usually runs out the blather hose for.


What, exactly, is that Passaic class all about? River monitors or something?

Sam F
08-08-2009, 12:12 PM
Dunno.... maybe one of the British built CSS raiders... Shenadoah or Alabama.

Definitely:
Shenandoah
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fe/CSSShenandoah.jpg/300px-CSSShenandoah.jpg

Alabama
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/32/CSSAlabama.jpg/300px-CSSAlabama.jpg

Pirate-at-heart
08-08-2009, 01:25 PM
This is along the lines of what I was thinking...
http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/4947/hmslydiahs1.jpg

Peerie Maa
08-08-2009, 01:35 PM
http://www.hmswarrior.org/ship/images/hbounda.jpg
HMS Warrior. Made all other warships obsolete at a stroke.

HMS Warrior (http://www.hmswarrior.org/index.html)

goodbasil
08-08-2009, 01:56 PM
HMCS Vancouver. 29+ knots. Fun.
http://www.navy.dnd.ca/vancouver/0/0-s_eng.asp

Andrew Craig-Bennett
08-08-2009, 03:37 PM
I am rather partial to the Insect Class river gunboats of the Royal Navy:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/13/HMS_Ladybird_Port_Said_1917_IWM_SP_000560.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/79/HMS_Aphis_AWM_302297.jpeg

The North Sea, the Danube, the Tigris and Euphrates in WW1, the Yangtse in the Twenties and Thirties, the Mediterrranean in WW2 - they certainly got about!

But I suppose I will always go for this one; she really is rather special. Did you know she was due to be scrapped, on grounds of extreme old age (she was laid down in the Seven Years War) before Trafalgar, but was reprieved and rebuilt because she sailed better than other three deckers:


http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41608000/jpg/_41608980_hms_victory_pa_416.jpg

Andrew Craig-Bennett
08-08-2009, 03:47 PM
Alex goes for the Flower Class Corvettes of WW2, on the grounds that they won the Battle of the Atlantic:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v94/markwalters/Corvettes/FCCFhomepage.jpg

J. Dillon
08-08-2009, 03:55 PM
They both raided freely and assigned to engage the enemy.

Frigates of the Napoleonic era and US subs WW2 vintage.

JD

Wayne Jeffers
08-08-2009, 04:50 PM
I always thought the Iowa Class battleships were especially elegant looking.

http://aboutfacts.net/Weapons&War/Weapons50/ia-1957inrIowa.jpg

http://www.usswisconsin.org/General/Pics/H%2054-06-07%20Four%20Iowas.jpg

The ultimate capital battleships.


I’ve also always been partial to the US Navy’s first frigates, including USS Constitution.

http://www.polkcounty.org/timonier/images/3mast.jpg

https://delmarhistory8.wikispaces.com/file/view/USS_Constitution_1997.jpg


Wayne

Oyvind Snibsoer
08-08-2009, 05:15 PM
Tjeld/Nasty class MTB/PTF. Double mahogany planking on ash frames and oak keel. 2 x Napier Deltic diesel engines @ 3 100 hp pushed them along at 50+ knots.

http://arkitekturnytt.no/uploaded_images/tjeld_MTB-747193.jpg

John Smith
08-08-2009, 05:20 PM
Do Coast Guard vessels count?

John Smith
08-08-2009, 05:36 PM
This looks like fun

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCD-1ozEbbI

Pirate-at-heart
08-08-2009, 05:40 PM
^^^I want one of those, Oyvind. In fact, lets just order two of them... theyre pretty small.

^^And yes, John Smith, anything but the Godspeed or the Susan Constant!
:)

jerryrichter
08-08-2009, 06:09 PM
US Navy WWII destroyers.

johnw
08-08-2009, 06:19 PM
What about those great naval vessels used for exploration?

http://www.eraoftheclipperships.com/miraclesart002.jpg

Andrew Craig-Bennett
08-08-2009, 06:30 PM
Naval vessels used in exploration?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/69/RRS_Discovery.jpg

WX
08-08-2009, 06:49 PM
Alex goes for the Flower Class Corvettes of WW2,You would want a strong stomach, those things rolled their guts out in the North Atlantic.
Me? I'd go for one of these or a Vosper MGB.
http://www.naval-history.net/Photo25ML187FairB-NP.jpg

http://www.warshipsww2.eu/gb/mtb/img/rys-fairmilec.gif

Andrew Craig-Bennett
08-08-2009, 06:54 PM
Alex's grandfather, who served on those, thought these were better in every way:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d7/Germaneboat.jpg

He went to the lengths of sending Their Lordships a complete set of drawings for these, which he found at one of their bases, at Catania, in Sicily, when it was captured, but it made no difference! ;)

WX
08-08-2009, 06:58 PM
Ah yes, the E-Boat aka Schnellboot -130. I've always like them.
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/... (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/defence/4045221/Nazi-E-boat-saved-by-military-enthusiast.html)

Keith Wilson
08-08-2009, 07:53 PM
I've always liked HMS Warrior. Brutally efficient, in the Victorian style.

http://www.hnsa.org/ships/img/warrior2.jpg

http://www.hnsa.org/ships/img/warrior1.jpg

Garth Jones
08-08-2009, 08:01 PM
Well, my first thoughts were HMS Warrior and/or any 32 gun 5th rate frigate from around 1800. However ,since those sorts of ships have been mentioned....

Ancient, Viking Longship:
http://www.discoverardnamurchan.com/uploaded_images/viking-1-711679.jpg

Modern, Los Angeles class sub:
http://www.military-today.com/navy/los_angeles_class.jpg

Captain Blight
08-08-2009, 08:02 PM
http://warandgame.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/g5.jpg

Soviet G5 PT boat. Apparently about as fast as the Schnellboots were.

Captain Charlie
08-08-2009, 08:17 PM
I'll have to go with Wayne and the Iowa Class. I was Technical Director for the reactivation process in the 1980s and did NJ, IOWA and MO and just started the Wisconsin before I got transferred. Still have enough teak from what we replaced on deck of MO to build a coffee table if I ever get a ROUNDTUIT. Yes, I have a wooden one of those, just not enough time!:)

Capt Charlie
USN (Ret now)


I always thought the Iowa Class battleships were especially elegant looking.

http://aboutfacts.net/Weapons&War/Weapons50/ia-1957inrIowa.jpg

http://www.usswisconsin.org/General/Pics/H%2054-06-07%20Four%20Iowas.jpg

The ultimate capital battleships.


I’ve also always been partial to the US Navy’s first frigates, including USS Constitution.

http://www.polkcounty.org/timonier/images/3mast.jpg

https://delmarhistory8.wikispaces.com/file/view/USS_Constitution_1997.jpg


Wayne

Paul Pless
08-08-2009, 08:34 PM
http://f-15.us/d/31-2/SHIP_Battleship_Iowa_Front_Firing_lg.jpg

Bob Cleek
08-08-2009, 09:46 PM
I love that picture. The only time you'll ever see a ship leave a wake moving sideways!

Extra credit trivia question: Name all six Iowa Class BB's.

Bill Griffin
08-08-2009, 10:12 PM
Ok Iowa, New Jersey, Missouri, Wisconsin, Illinois, Kentucky. Google is your friend. Factoid: in the above pic, the ship (Iowa) is not being pushed sideways, the camera is showing the blast wave of the guns. An overhead pic, shows this clearly. I always thought it was being pushed by the recoil, until I saw the overhead shot.

Domesticated_Mr. Know It All
08-09-2009, 01:12 AM
The WWII plywood PT Boats.


http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/k03000/k03914.jpg

The Bigfella
08-09-2009, 02:30 AM
Nah. This one has BIG guns

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/g700000/g704702.jpg
Yamato's main battery consisted of nine 18.1-inch 40 cm/45 Type 94 naval guns—the largest caliber of naval artillery ever fitted to a warship

PeterSibley
08-09-2009, 03:31 AM
Nah. This one has BIG guns

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/g700000/g704702.jpg
Yamato's main battery consisted of nine 18.1-inch 40 cm/45 Type 94 naval guns—the largest caliber of naval artillery ever fitted to a warship

Were those 18" guns ever fired in anger ?

The Bigfella
08-09-2009, 04:08 AM
Were those 18" guns ever fired in anger ?

Yep - at Okinawa

PeterSibley
08-09-2009, 05:26 AM
I thought she was sunk by airstrikes and torpedos before she got to Okinawa .

The Bigfella
08-09-2009, 06:34 AM
I thought she was sunk by airstrikes and torpedos before she got to Okinawa .

Correct - my error - she was sunk before she got there. She did actually open fire on some Japanese aircraft though!

Hwyl
08-09-2009, 07:10 AM
Something more appropriate

http://www.royalmarinesregimental.co.uk/Images/histCockPic03.jpg

WX
08-09-2009, 07:16 AM
http://www.royalmarinesregimental.co.uk/Images/histCockPic03.jpg
Blondie Hasler and The Cockleshell Heroes ?

Pirate-at-heart
08-09-2009, 07:17 AM
while I hold nothing more that pure respect for the pacifist philosophy, and feed the chickadees the finest sunflowers in the land, I put it to the man above me...
you wont be able to capture many pieces - of - eight with that scrawny sea-kayak!

Arrr!

WX
08-09-2009, 07:20 AM
No, but with a few limpet mines you can cause mayhem in a habour.

Hwyl
08-09-2009, 07:22 AM
while I hold nothing more that pure respect for the pacifist philosophy, and feed the chickadees the finest sunflowers in the land, I put it to the man above me...
you wont be able to capture many pieces - of - eight with that scrawny sea-kayak!

Arrr!

Perhaps thinking before you post might be a good philosophy


During the evening of 7 December 1942 the submarine HMS TUNA surfaced off the mouth of the Gironde, and launched 10 men in 5 canoes5. All was well until they reached tide races at the mouth of the river, where two canoes were lost. Canoeing by night, with the tide, and lying up by day, over several days, two pairs made it to the port (another pair's canoe was wrecked on an obstacle). One of the crews was Maj Hasler with Mne Bill Sparks, the other was Cpl Albert Laver and Mne Bill Mills. Limpet mines were placed on a number of ships, and these two crews then made their way down river, where they destroyed their canoes, and separately made their way cross country north east, through German occupied France, towards Ruffec, to make contact with the Resistance. After many hair raising incidents and much hardship, Hasler and Sparks succeeded in reaching this town, some 100 miles from where they left their canoes, and successfully linked up with the Resistance : they finally arrived home, after crossing the Pyrenees into neutral Spain, some 4 months after the raid. Laver and Mills were caught by the French police and handed over to the Germans: they were executed with 2 others, 3 months later.
The raid was successful in that 5 ships were badly damaged6: perhaps more importantly the success was a much needed tonic for the British, for whom 1942 had been a disastrous year. There was a price to pay: 10 men set off; 2 escaped successfully, 2 were drowned, and 6 were caught or betrayed, and executed by the Germans. Maj Hasler was awarded the DSO, and Mne Sparks the DSM: Cpl Laver and Mne Mills received posthumous Mentions in Dispatches.

Pirate-at-heart
08-09-2009, 07:30 AM
and how many pieces - of - eight did they capture?

*yawn*

WX
08-09-2009, 07:34 AM
Well I guess it depends on the value you place on moral boosting?
Blondie is well known for many things during and after the war. One of the development of the Modified Junk Rig.

Paul Pless
08-09-2009, 07:34 AM
How 'bout a privateer???

http://www.brockville.com/images/news/5_PrideOfBaltimoreII.jpg

Hwyl
08-09-2009, 07:35 AM
http://www.royalmarinesregimental.co.uk/Images/histCockPic03.jpg
Blondie Hasler and The Cockleshell Heroes ?

Correct Gary.
Brave guys indeed

Pirate-at-heart
08-09-2009, 07:37 AM
yeah, I was just kidding around with you, WX. it looks like a fine little vessel and I'm sure that was a wonderful story from WW2.

The Bigfella
08-09-2009, 07:48 AM
OK, I'll come back for a second posting, with one that always gives me the goosebumps when I see her on Sydney Harbour

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b1/Krait_%28AWM_067338%29.jpg

http://www.hnsa.org/ships/img/krait.jpg

WX
08-09-2009, 07:51 AM
If you want wartime dash and daring do then read about the British MTB and MGB flotillas that worked around the Adriatic during WW2.

WX
08-09-2009, 07:52 AM
Ah yes the Krait, now there's a story or two!

The Bigfella
08-09-2009, 07:55 AM
Ah yes the Krait, now there's a story or two!

The men on her sank or seriously damaged 7 Japanese ships.

skuthorp
08-09-2009, 07:56 AM
Ah Ian the Krait. My dad went to war in a few RN and RAN ships but his favourite was HMAS Gascoyne, a river class cocrvette built in Sydney and commissioned in 1943.
http://users.qld.chariot.net.au/~dialabull/Gascoyne_files/1943.jpg

http://users.qld.chariot.net.au/~dialabull/Gascoyne_files/crest.jpg
http://users.qld.chariot.net.au/~dialabull/Gascoyne.htm

Dad won the DSM in her over the Sommelsdyke incident

The Bigfella
08-09-2009, 08:07 AM
Dad won the DSM in her over the Sommelsdyke incident


Wow.



On Christmas Eve, when anchored at Guiuan, the Dutch vessel Sommelsdijck lying nearby was hit and set on fire by an aerial torpedo. The Australian frigate organised the removal of 1,300 troops from the burning ship and assisted by USS Buttonwood subsequently successfully subdued and finally extinguished the flames.

John Smith
08-09-2009, 08:16 AM
Someone remind me how to post photos here from Photobucket, please.

Paul Pless
08-09-2009, 08:20 AM
Someone remind me how to post photos here from Photobucket, please.right click on your photo and copy the address then paste that address into the popup window you get after pressing this button http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/images/editor/insertimage.gif on the woodenboat forum post/reply editor...

Pirate-at-heart
08-09-2009, 09:12 AM
what is DSM?
and anyone else like the looks of this?
http://g.imagehost.org/0702/RSS_Steadfast.jpg
French Stealth Frigate. pretty snazzy, eh?

Paul Pless
08-09-2009, 09:22 AM
Is that a Wally?
http://g.imagehost.org/0702/RSS_Steadfast.jpg
French Stealth Frigate. pretty snazzy, eh?

goodbasil
08-09-2009, 10:12 AM
DSM is Distinguished Service Metal.

Paul Girouard
08-09-2009, 11:02 AM
Warships are for war , projecting power is the carriers forte,

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ac/USS_Theodore_Roosevelt_at_sea.jpg/428px-USS_Theodore_Roosevelt_at_sea.jpg


She ain't purdy , well unless your low on fuel and blue water ops, but she'll get the bombs on target.

http://www.vaq136.com/ea6bphotos/ea6b-151b.jpg

George Jung
08-09-2009, 11:30 AM
file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/User/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot.jpgfile:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/User/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-1.jpghttp://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/h55000/h55274.jpg


USS Colorado, sister ship to the Missouri - and my dad's ship

Hal Forsen
08-09-2009, 11:51 AM
Old Ironsides.

http://www.sheriff.co.wise.tx.us/cuffnstuff/images/ironsides.jpg

Iowa Class BB

http://military.discovery.com/technology/vehicles/ships/images/missouri-625x450.jpg

Higgins PT

http://www.williammaloney.com/Dad/WWII/MiltWWII/PTBoat.jpg


Mk V SOC

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/images/NAVY_MkV_SEAL_Boat_Launches_ScanEagle_lg.jpg

GO NAVY

http://www.hnsa.org/doc/pt/know/img/front.jpg

Wayne Jeffers
08-09-2009, 12:16 PM
USS Colorado, sister ship to the Missouri . . .

No, Missouri was an Iowa Class BB, and not launched until WWII.

Colorado was the first of the Colorado class, built shortly after WWI. Her sister ships were West Virginia and Maryland.

Wayne

Sam F
08-09-2009, 12:26 PM
Nah. This one has BIG guns...
Yamato's main battery consisted of nine 18.1-inch 40 cm/45 Type 94 naval guns—the largest caliber of naval artillery ever fitted to a warship

Very probably those guns were at or near the technical limit for such hardware.
For instance, no one could live on deck when they were being fired - which makes for a risky environment doing... say damage control... during battle. The Japanese tested this by putting caged guinea pigs on deck during firing... the animals were disintegrated by the shock wave.
Nevertheless, the Japanese had plans for building a Super-Yamato class fitted with 20" guns. Those went the way of Hitler's 1948 naval building program.

There's often speculation of how well an Iowa class battleship would have fared in contact with the Yamatos... ships specifically designed with great secrecy to defeat the Iowas. No one will ever know, but I suspect it would have come down to gunnery accuracy. I've seen a sample of Yamato class armor tested with US 16" guns and the results wouldn't have been encouraging to any Yamato crew member. You can see it too - visit the Washington Naval Yard in DC.

Gonzalo
08-09-2009, 12:54 PM
Captain Blight, maybe you have already looked up Passaic class monitors yourself. If not, here is the little that I remember.

They were the second-generation of John Ericsson's monitors, a bit bigger and redesigned to correct some of the design flaws of the original Monitor. They were single-turret monitors with the pilot house located on top of the turret instead of at the bow. They also had real smokestacks and ventilators instead of the flush "stacks" of the Monitor.

I think I remember that they had two Dahlgren guns of different sizes, one a couple of inches larger than the other, because of a shortage of the larger guns. I might not remember correctly.

Along with other Civil War monitors they were used for blockade duty and attacks on Confederate ports like Charleston and Mobile Bay. Several fought Confederate ironclads like the Tennessee, which fared rather badly against them. I don't think they saw much river duty. Even though their draft was shallow compared with contemporary ocean-going warships, they drew too much for most rivers.

They were not very well suited for blue water steaming, as their freeboard was only slightly better than non-existent.

One or two of them were sunk during the war, but most saw service through the Spanish-American war period but were decommissioned soon afterward.

Gonzalo
08-09-2009, 12:57 PM
Hey, Sam, I noticed you are on the verge of your 10,000th post. Quite an event, not to be wasted!

Canoeyawl
08-09-2009, 01:34 PM
Turtle Class
A little known japanese frigate
http://images.travelpod.com/users/kateinjapan/japan_2006-2007.1190642160.turtle-boat-to-the-island-hotel.jpg

John Smith
08-09-2009, 02:54 PM
Turtle Class
A little known japanese frigate
http://images.travelpod.com/users/kateinjapan/japan_2006-2007.1190642160.turtle-boat-to-the-island-hotel.jpg
Interesting;

I'd like one of these:

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t316/jdanton/coastguard2.jpg

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t316/jdanton/coastguard3.jpg
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t316/jdanton/coastguard6.jpg
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t316/jdanton/coastguard8.jpg

BETTY-B
08-09-2009, 03:26 PM
My fathers boat was the USS COLUMBUS (CA-74). A Baltimore class heavy cruiser. They had one big Piasecki HUP helo. With which my dad used to pulll pilots out of the water and later on he started pulling downed and injured people out of the forest of Korea. Which ended up not working out so well for him.

Looking at this picture reminds me of a story he told of having to swim back to the ship because they missed the last launch back before it wa to leave Venice. I always imagined some super long swim in Navy blues, but looking here, that's just not too far from land at all.

http://www.usscolumbus.org/USS_Columbus/ships_crew_pictures/CA-74_greene_paul/CA_74_venice.jpg

Shortly after that shot, the CA-74 went back to the Pacific where it became the flagship for the Supreme Allied Commander. Who my father would fly around along with other Admirals and big wigs.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d10/Bridgedeck/DANandULA/navy4.jpg

BETTY-B
08-09-2009, 03:30 PM
Why is this thread in the bilge?

ChaseKenyon
08-09-2009, 04:01 PM
USS Barney DDG6 the first built from the keel (not converted) Adams Class guided missile Destroyer.

http://www.uss-barney-ddg6.org/Photos/ship/jkamdulis7703.jpg

That is water way above the O7 level. We always referred to her as an FBM (fleet ballistic missile sub) that couldn't submerge completely.

Side view two rapid fire 5 inch 54s capable of heeling the ship 30* if fired at the same time broadside. Latest torpedoes fired from deck and submerged tubes. Asroc Nukes in the middle and Hot rod SP Nukes Tartar Missile launcher aft. Tartar capable of simultaneous firing at two different targets.
http://www.uss-barney-ddg6.org/Photos/ship/REJ84006.jpg

http://www.uss-barney-ddg6.org/Photos/ship/jvandusen732.jpg
http://www.uss-barney-ddg6.org/Photos/ship/jvandusen7324.jpg

http://www.uss-barney-ddg6.org/Photos/ship/jvandusen7325.jpg


WE could put one of those Tartars straight through the open front windows of a VW bug from 19 miles away.


The Germans have two DDGs as museum exhibits. The only DDG left in the USA is the Adams itself. All of the destroyer alumni are trying to save the Adams as a museum ship for the Miami Dade county maritime center.Any help from the WBF gang would be appreciated.

http://www.uss-barney-ddg6.org/index.htm

Check out the roster, we have one of the biggest Alumni orgs out there.

Thanks

Chase

rbgarr
08-09-2009, 04:07 PM
http://i32.tinypic.com/2gvk1fl.jpg

Tom Galyen
08-09-2009, 04:10 PM
Chase,

You sound like you were an FT(M). I was an FT(M) with an 1144NEC which meant I worked on Terrier surface to air missiles. It was a Tarter on steroids (it had booster).

I served on the U.S.S. Luce (DLG-7) and U.S.S. Biddle (DLG-34) later designated CL-34.

ChaseKenyon
08-09-2009, 04:26 PM
Chase,

You sound like you were an FT(M). I was an FT(M) with an 1144NEC which meant I worked on Terrier surface to air missiles. It was a Tarter on steroids (it had booster).

I served on the U.S.S. Luce (DLG-7) and U.S.S. Biddle (DLG-34) later designated CL-34.

Close Tom I was nominally an IC2 but was an Anti Sub warfare specialist. When on the ship I took care of the Gyros, ASW systems and the 3 phase 400 cycle for all the analog computer system and missile control systems. I designed a rig using phase angle meters from a radio station system to let us have 3 ph 400 at less than 0.004 % deviation from true phase angle separation. We were the only ones in the fleet with it. I understand from one of the officers that they later made my design and system standard for all the fleet 3ph 400cyl systems. When not abord a lot maybe even 1/3 of the time, I was off staging on German and Norwegian and British ships in the NATO fleet on Nato Ops in the water and on land all over Europe.

Spent a lot of flight time off the ship.

Chase

George Jung
08-09-2009, 04:29 PM
No, Missouri was an Iowa Class BB, and not launched until WWII.

Colorado was the first of the Colorado class, built shortly after WWI. Her sister ships were West Virginia and Maryland.

Wayne


Thanks, Wayne - I 'googled', and apparently, the Washington was a sister ship, as well.

I've 'remembered' the Missouri as a sister ship since I was a small kid - my dad used to tell stories from that chapter of his life, and I recall most of them (and can close my eyes, and 'be' there... good times, actuallly) as yesterday. Which either means dad mis-spoke ( I suspect not - that was a vivid part of his life, WWII) or.... I misheard, or mis-remembered.

Just goes to show - there's no 'truths' so wrong as those we know to be right. Thanks for the lesson.

George Jung
08-09-2009, 04:45 PM
Whoops! I stand corrected - again.

The USS Washington was never completed, was scrapped. You were correct the first time.

PeterSibley
08-09-2009, 05:22 PM
http://www.royalmarinesregimental.co.uk/Images/histCockPic03.jpg
Blondie Hasler and The Cockleshell Heroes ?

Well seeing war is essentially an economic contest ,sinking almost any ship using a kayak as your "ship" ....you wouuld have to come out ahead ,wouldn't you !

George Jung
08-09-2009, 05:45 PM
Needs a pointier bow (LeeG don't like those, btw), plus an extra shot of whiskey for the crew - Capt'n wants to go water skiing after lunch.

Wayne Jeffers
08-09-2009, 05:59 PM
. . . The USS Washington was never completed, was scrapped. . .

Back in the 1920's, negotiations/treaties limiting/reducing naval vessels, especially battleships, were a very big thing. Sort of the equivalent of modern negotiations/treaties for limiting nuclear arms and ICBM's. Big battleships were indeed viewed then much as we have viewed nuclear weapons for the last 60+ years.

Anyhow, I believe the Washington fell victim, in mid-construction, to one of those treaties limiting the number and size of BB's that the major powers could have.

Wayne

WX
08-09-2009, 06:15 PM
,sinking almost any ship using a kayak as your "ship" ....you wouuld have to come out ahead ,wouldn't you !
Most definitely.

Wayne Jeffers
08-09-2009, 06:55 PM
. . . One or two of them [Passaic class] were sunk during the war, but most saw service through the Spanish-American war period but were decommissioned soon afterward.

Thanks, Gonzalo. I had never heard that before, but a little research shows it to be true.

It appears that 2 of the 10 were sunk during the Civil War. The 8 survivors were put into “ordinary” for decades (one was used by the US Naval Academy for several years in the 1870’s – 80’s) and most (perhaps all) were recommissioned for coastal defense service during the Spanish-American War in order to allow more modern ships to serve a more active role.

This is mind-boggling to me, given the rapid advances in naval technology during the period 1865 – 1895.

It appears that all the survivors of the Passaic class were sold for scrap between 1898 and 1904. Long overdue, IMO.

Wayne

Gonzalo
08-09-2009, 10:52 PM
I think there was one monitor sunk at Mobile Bay, by a mine. I'm sure I have seen a painting of it rolling over after hitting the "torpedo" but I can't remember whether it had one or two turrets.

Edited to add: OK, I just looked Mobile Bay up on Wikipedia. The one sunk there was Tecumseh, a single turret monitor of the Canonicus class. That was the class that followed the Passaic class. I think it was designed by Ericsson, but Wiki doesn't specifically say.

The Bigfella
08-09-2009, 11:03 PM
She had Ericcson engines

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p292/herrmill/USS_Tecumseh.gif

The Bigfella
08-09-2009, 11:31 PM
This one is pretty special. She has her own tender to keep the bottom clean whilst transiting the globe.

http://www.naval-technology.com/contractor_images/dockwise/1_NOTT02-80D.jpg

The Bigfella
08-10-2009, 12:00 AM
and how could we forget this one?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_TtMla9qUeh8/Rv-_FZATg5I/AAAAAAAAA2U/WhM7Us6yUmA/s320/The+African+Queen.jpg

skuthorp
08-10-2009, 02:20 AM
and how could we forget this one?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_TtMla9qUeh8/Rv-_FZATg5I/AAAAAAAAA2U/WhM7Us6yUmA/s320/The+African+Queen.jpg

This was the basis for the African Queen story
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mimi_and_Toutou_Go_Forth:_The_Bizarre_Battle_for_L ake_Tanganyika

And it got sillier, somewhere in the African bush are two large naval guns tha the Germans were hauling to the lake for a shore battery to dominate it all. The war ended before they got there.

BETTY-B
08-10-2009, 02:49 AM
This was the basis for the African Queen story
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mimi_and_Toutou_Go_Forth:_The_Bizarre_Battle_for_L ake_Tanganyika

And it got sillier, somewhere in the African bush are two large naval guns tha the Germans were hauling to the lake for a shore battery to dominate it all. The war ended before they got there.

Fascinating. Folllowing that story further shows that one of the two German warships they were after were salvaged eight years later by the British. It had been scuttled by the Germans in 1916. The boat is still in use today!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_Liemba

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7b/Liemba1.jpg

Andrew Craig-Bennett
08-10-2009, 04:16 AM
This thread would not be complete without this one; the most distinguished British ship of the last century:

http://www.naval-history.net/Photo01bbWarspite1944NormandyMQ.jpg

You will notice that X turret is not operational and the centrecastle looks rather a mess - the turret had been disabled and enormous other damage done by a German glider bomb in the Mediterranean a few months earlier. My school Physics teacher served aboard her during much of WW2 and was understandably proud of the fact. Being schoolboys, we could often divert a Physics lesson, via ballistics and ship stability, into Naval history...

Hwyl
08-10-2009, 04:30 AM
I have vague childhood memories of the Conway (formerly HMS Nile). I love the launch in the foreground BTW and certainly remember lots of those.

http://www.irishseashipping.com/news/2006/04_2006/conway.jpg

Paul Pless
08-10-2009, 05:56 AM
I have vague childhood memories of the Conway (formerly HMS Nile). I love the launch in the foreground BTW and certainly remember lots of those.

http://www.irishseashipping.com/news/2006/04_2006/conway.jpgnot your typical mudberth sighting . . .

The Bigfella
08-10-2009, 06:23 AM
No more than about 3' of hog there either

martin schulz
08-10-2009, 07:08 AM
U-47 (Typ VII)

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/i02000/i02539.jpg

...perhaps someone here will figure out which special U-Boot this is

The Bigfella
08-10-2009, 07:30 AM
Captained by the Bull of Scapa Flow

martin schulz
08-10-2009, 07:48 AM
Captained by the Bull of Scapa Flow

Hip Hip Hurra!

There must be something in those German genes.
Somehow we all share a funny liking for building bunker and subs. Perhaps the open flag-flying, hill-storming kind of warfare is not ours...

Pirate-at-heart
08-10-2009, 08:42 AM
Canoe Yawl - that little Mickey Mouse ship scared the living Bejeebers out of me.

Straight up, I'll be seeing that one in my worst nautical nightmares, thanks very much.

and to John Smith... how did they DO that? what kind of keel does that thing have, or balance point, or whatever, which allows it to upright itself after capsize?

Andrew Craig-Bennett
08-10-2009, 09:22 AM
U-47 (Typ VII)

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/i02000/i02539.jpg

...perhaps someone here will figure out which special U-Boot this is


and this was the Royal Navy's return gesture:

http://www.hnsa.org/ships/img/x24.jpg

http://www.hnsa.org/ships/img/x24b.jpg

martin schulz
08-10-2009, 09:33 AM
and this was the Royal Navy's return gesture:

http://www.hnsa.org/ships/img/x24.jpg

Aha - apart from the TIRPITZ mines those little cans did help preparing D-Day, I just read.

Andrew Craig-Bennett
08-10-2009, 09:36 AM
Yes. The one in the upper picture, X-24, did two missions and is the only surviving one; she is in the RN Submarine Museum - the one in the lower picture, to show the scale is a training one - no explosive charges on the sides.

John Smith
08-10-2009, 09:49 AM
Canoe Yawl - that little Mickey Mouse ship scared the living Bejeebers out of me.

Straight up, I'll be seeing that one in my worst nautical nightmares, thanks very much.

and to John Smith... how did they DO that? what kind of keel does that thing have, or balance point, or whatever, which allows it to upright itself after capsize?

This is a Coast Guard vessel, according to the guy who took the pics. I don't have a lot of info past that, but I may have kept the orginal email. Apparently this is a boat designed for really rough water, and everyone on board is strapped in, and boat is designed to right itself.

Here's the text that came with the photos:

Subject: US Coast Guard 47-ft Motor Life Boat 12/04/07 Morro Bay




These 47’ MLB’s run propellers from little old Hall & Stavert in PEI. The boats are self righting in about 30 seconds, and needless to say all crew are strapped into their seats with multiple harnesses. Believe it or not, this is the kind of seas these boats were designed to handle. There are about 200 of these boats around the US coast, and several have been delivered to the CG also.

Large storm swells reached Morro Bay, California on December 4,2007, bringing 15-20 foot swells with some plus sets. A U.S. Coast Guard 47-foot Motor Life Boat was out for practice maneuvers in the large surf, which is not unusual. However, a large wave hit that was probably more than they bargained for ... at least it's the hardest I've ever seen them get hit. The air was filled with mist, and they were quite distant, so at times were just a shadow in the mist. I've adjusted them for better visibility, however the quality of the photos is not the greatest due to the above conditions, and futile attempts to keep the lens dry.

Pirate-at-heart
08-10-2009, 10:51 AM
I have been searching the web for any information about how those boats stay upright, but can find nothing at all besides those pictures and general specs on the class. I wonder if they have lead in the keels. I guess I'll never know... probably highly classified stuff. LOL. The coast guard takes themselves far too seriously in my opinion. but a cool little boat nonetheless.
how about one of these? A little Tico will do the job fo' sure!
http://www.military-today.com/navy/ticonderoga_class_cruiser.jpg

Andrew Craig-Bennett
08-10-2009, 11:03 AM
Lifeboats don't stay upright - they come back upright!

Two basic methods - old lifeboats used self righting tanks - they had the traditional high whaleback ends with plenty of sheer which tended to make them unstable when inverted and they had ballast tanks in the bottom connected with piping to tanks on one side near the gunwale - if the boat inverted the water flowed into the side tanks and brought the boat upright again.

Lifeboatmen had misxed views on these boats and some lifeboat stations refused to have them. The method was used on the old pulling and sailing boats and in powered boats until the high speed boats were developed.

The modern method, used in high speed boats, is much simpler - the boat has a large, very strong, wheelhouse with extremely strong windows and has the engines and other heavy weights low down. The buoyancy of the superstructure brings her back up... as you see in those pictures.

John Smith
08-10-2009, 11:10 AM
Lifeboats don't stay upright - they come back upright!

Two basic methods - old lifeboats used self righting tanks - they had the traditional high whaleback ends with plenty of sheer which tended to make them unstable when inverted and they had ballast tanks in the bottom connected with piping to tanks on one side near the gunwale - if the boat inverted the water flowed into the side tanks and brought the boat upright again.

Lifeboatmen had misxed views on these boats and some lifeboat stations refused to have them. The method was used on the old pulling and sailing boats and in powered boats until the high speed boats were developed.

The modern method, used in high speed boats, is much simpler - the boat has a large, very strong, wheelhouse with extremely strong windows and has the engines and other heavy weights low down. The buoyancy of the superstructure brings her back up... as you see in those pictures.
Wonder if they've got a simulater for that.

Good info. Thanks.

Andrew Craig-Bennett
08-10-2009, 11:13 AM
Yes, actually - well, the RNLI do, and I am sure the USCG will have one too! ;)

Edited to add - the volunteer lifeboatmen in my part of the world refused to have the old type self righters calling them "roly-polies" meaning that they thought that, whilst they would self right, they capsized too easily in the first place. Lifeboatmen round here insisted on the "Norfolk and Suffolk type" which were based on their salvaging beach company yawls.

They've got the modern type now though!

Sam F
08-10-2009, 12:33 PM
...Edited to add: OK, I just looked Mobile Bay up on Wikipedia. The one sunk there was Tecumseh, a single turret monitor of the Canonicus class. That was the class that followed the Passaic class. I think it was designed by Ericsson, but Wiki doesn't specifically say.

Yes, the Tecumseh is still down there too: http://wikimapia.org/5037950/Site-of-the-USS-Tecumseh

Here's the painting - a rather good one I think (though the color is off in this representation):
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/05/Mobilebaybattle.jpg

The Bigfella
08-11-2009, 02:04 AM
and this was the Royal Navy's return gesture:

http://www.hnsa.org/ships/img/x24.jpg

http://www.hnsa.org/ships/img/x24b.jpg

This was my uncle's return gesture....

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff112/igatenby/uboat2.jpg

I posted this one a while back on another thread. No idea how it turned out, other than it resulted in a large oil slick when the U Boat went down (photo 6). The black dot in the upper left part of photo 5 is a cannon shell fired by the sub .... it missed my uncle's plane by a matter of feet. I haven't got his autobigraphy here at the moment, and can't recall whether he was flying Beaufighters or Mosquitos when these photos were taken.

Tough times.

skuthorp
08-11-2009, 07:13 AM
My Uncle John flew Beaufighters near the end of the war. He trained in the Empire AT scheme in Canada, started in Hamdens then Wellingtons in Bomber Command as a wireless op/air gunner. Survived several tours and crashes, was shot down in the Med during the landings in Italy and strafed in the water. In the end he applied for pilot training and flew Beaufighters in the islands till near the end. Sole survivor of several crews my aunt says. (She's 93 on saturday) It didn't seem to have effected him at all, always a calm humourous man till he died at 84.

David W Pratt
08-11-2009, 02:58 PM
I agree about the American frigates which changed teh outcome of the war of 1812.
Also would vote for the Viking long ship.
And any of the "little ships" that evacuated Dunkirk.

Peerie Maa
08-11-2009, 03:08 PM
Yes. The one in the upper picture, X-24, did two missions and is the only surviving one; she is in the RN Submarine Museum - the one in the lower picture, to show the scale is a training one - no explosive charges on the sides.
http://www.hnsa.org/ships/img/x24b.jpg
Probably no, I think that she is brand new, being launched by crane into Devonshire Dock, Barrow by the builders.

johnw
08-11-2009, 05:30 PM
Since Monitors have come up, I should mention that I have a book published shortly after the Spanish Civil war that mentions that the prize rules were still in effect for the US Navy during that conflict, and the monitor Terror was the top prize taker.

http://www.spanamwar.com/terror1.gif

Certainly the type owed its longevity to its low cost rather than its seaworthyness. There's a bit of history here:

http://www.spanamwar.com/terror.htm

Andrew Craig-Bennett
08-12-2009, 12:17 AM
http://www.hnsa.org/ships/img/x24b.jpg
Probably no, I think that she is brand new, being launched by crane into Devonshire Dock, Barrow by the builders.

I stand corrected. Thanks.

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
08-12-2009, 12:57 AM
Yes. The one in the upper picture, X-24, did two missions and is the only surviving one; she is in the RN Submarine Museum - the one in the lower picture, to show the scale is a training one - no explosive charges on the sides.

I thought I'd seen one at Duxford...

... X-51 and the remains of X-7.

http://duxford.iwm.org.uk/server/show/ConWebDoc.1208

http://www.itisthewayforward.com/Duxford-2004-Photos/Duxford%20-%2027-28%20Dec%202004%20-%20133.JPG

martin schulz
08-12-2009, 03:33 AM
And any of the "little ships" that evacuated Dunkirk.

About which I had no clue before reading Atonement :-(

But as I dug a bit further into this I also read that during the Dünkirchen evacuation, the little boat action was in reality not as effective as it was for propaganda purposes (after all those little boats turned a defeat in a victory).

Tumzara
08-12-2009, 05:13 AM
Just about any of the late WW2 destroyers. 35+ knots top speed. and georgeous lines for a warship. Porter and Fletcher classes for examples.

Andrew Craig-Bennett
08-12-2009, 06:34 AM
About which I had no clue before reading Atonement :-(

But as I dug a bit further into this I also read that during the Dünkirchen evacuation, the little boat action was in reality not as effective as it was for propaganda purposes (after all those little boats turned a defeat in a victory).

But it's been a great thing for the preservation of many old motor boats (and a few Thames Barges!) in Britain!

http://www.adls.org.uk/t1/

Captain Charlie
08-13-2009, 08:56 AM
Ok Iowa, New Jersey, Missouri, Wisconsin, Illinois, Kentucky. Google is your friend. Factoid: in the above pic, the ship (Iowa) is not being pushed sideways, the camera is showing the blast wave of the guns. An overhead pic, shows this clearly. I always thought it was being pushed by the recoil, until I saw the overhead shot.

You are right Bill. I have been onboard while a broadside was fired and, while impressive (the heat moreso than the blast), the ship doesn't move. If you think about the physics, 9 -2700LB shells (the armor piercing ones) won't move an 80,000ton vessel very far! Action>Reaction... The biggest problem we had with those guns was using old powder bags (110# silk). The QC on the WWII powder wasn't too good and if we rolled 6 heavy ones in to fire, the shot would go a lot further than if we used 6 light ones. In the end, we ended up repackaging all the powder to get consistency!

And then we had the IOWA tragedy...:(

Capt. Charlie

Pirate-at-heart
08-13-2009, 09:06 AM
were you on board an Iowa class battleship?

really?

What was it like? how roomy were the berths? no more hammocks? and I heard that the food on the battleships was the best in the navy. how was the food?

you would use pre-sewn bags of fine powder? up to six? why fine powder? I thought coarse powder blew up better.

I was saddened by the deaths of those gunners on the Iowa. Do you know much about the mistake they made which caused the explosion?

sorry to be so morbid this morning. I have a fascination with naval gunnery.

And for the record, after all the plethora of warships posted in this thread, I would still prefer the eighteenth-century sloop-of-war. Arrr, that be a true pirate ship in the making.

I, Rowboat
08-13-2009, 10:18 AM
Can we nominate fictional ships? The Borg Cube is the most menacing of all time, if you ask me.

Bob Adams
08-13-2009, 10:23 AM
And then we had the IOWA tragedy...:(

Capt. Charlie

That was, I believe the last extended flank speed run my ship made, to render aid to Iowa. Very sad. Great ships though.

Sam F
08-13-2009, 10:26 AM
...
you would use pre-sewn bags of fine powder? up to six? why fine powder? I thought coarse powder blew up better...

I think he was referring to the silk fabric, not the powder.

Captain Charlie
08-15-2009, 06:54 PM
were you on board an Iowa class battleship?

really?

What was it like? how roomy were the berths? no more hammocks? and I heard that the food on the battleships was the best in the navy. how was the food?

you would use pre-sewn bags of fine powder? up to six? why fine powder? I thought coarse powder blew up better.

I was saddened by the deaths of those gunners on the Iowa. Do you know much about the mistake they made which caused the explosion?

sorry to be so morbid this morning. I have a fascination with naval gunnery.

And for the record, after all the plethora of warships posted in this thread, I would still prefer the eighteenth-century sloop-of-war. Arrr, that be a true pirate ship in the making.

The habitability of the modernized Iowa class was much upgraded from WWII. No more hammocks. Metal bunks with storage under each, only 3 high. The food, as on all Navy ships IMHO was second to none, except Subs where it was supurb.

The powder that we use initially was from magazines at Naval Ammo facilities from WWII and Korea (and Vietnam). I don't know whether it was coarse or fine (never looked). It was rebagged after noting the inconsistency in the fall of shot. We had installed radar ranging equipment on the gun turrets to measure the velocity of the outgoing shells. Much like the radar equipment that the police use only capable of high velocity measurements.

I served on many ships but on the IOWA class, only went on the many sea trials and tests as we got them ready for service in the fleet.

I think a final determination was made in the IOWA explosion investigation, but don't remember exactly what it was, I think human error, all it takes is one mistake, a real tragedy for sure. In this day and age, and even back then, folks were looking for something to "blame it on". Makes no diffrerence, brings no one back to life. We only learn lessons from those things.

Charlie

Pirate-at-heart
08-16-2009, 09:29 AM
Thanks kindly Captain Charlie. It sounds like you had an awesome career. And I have also heard that food onboard submarines was the best. Very cool answers to my questions. Very cool thread. I'm glad I started this thread. You guys made it really rock with all the great pictures.
Cheers to all on this fine Sunday morn!

Phillip Allen
08-16-2009, 11:28 AM
I have been searching the web for any information about how those boats stay upright, but can find nothing at all besides those pictures and general specs on the class. I wonder if they have lead in the keels. I guess I'll never know... probably highly classified stuff. LOL. The coast guard takes themselves far too seriously in my opinion. but a cool little boat nonetheless.
how about one of these? A little Tico will do the job fo' sure!
http://www.military-today.com/navy/ticonderoga_class_cruiser.jpg

upright...easy...put a lot of hot air above the 02 level (all the work is happening below the water line)

Tobago
08-16-2009, 11:43 AM
I think my favorite general class is the Fletcher Class Destroyer. The greyhounds.

I served on an old Fram, the Fiske DD-842, the Jesse L. Brown FF 1089, USS America CV-66 (one of the world's greatest ships to have served on, Clifton Sprague FFG-16 a joy to be an engineer aboard and the Duke of Earle, USS Nitro AE-23.

Lot of steel and DFM.

Excelsior,
Ted

Paul Girouard
08-16-2009, 11:53 AM
(all the work is happening below the water line)




Ah, spoken like a true Snipe !:D

On Larks thread I did some CV hunting on the net and ran onto this beauty, what a bunch of history ole Swanky Franky FDR CV-42 had.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0b/CVA-42.jpg/800px-CVA-42.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7c/CVA-42_approach_1970s_DN-SP-04-08721.JPEG/766px-CVA-42_approach_1970s_DN-SP-04-08721.JPEG


Look at that deck stack A-7 Corsair's , F-4 Phanton's , A-6 Intruder's back aft , E-2's Hawkeye's in the gut by the island ,

I'm not sure what's all the aft on the starboard side, F-8 Sabercat's maybe , I'll have to google that bird not sure the F-8 was called the Sabercat?? Sounds right but may not be.

The interesting thing was reading all the things FDR was involved in and had done to her thru the years. Many major refits , and a few 1st's in NAVAIR.

She's a looker to eh :D

Paul Girouard
08-16-2009, 12:09 PM
F-8 Crusader , I bet those are what back aft strb. side.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e3/Uss_midway_crusaders.jpg

This photo was taken on Midway CV-41.

I can't image landing a big fast jet like that on such a small deck. They hadn't perfected a jet like the Tomcat or Hornet at this time so these old flying rocks needed more air speed to land so they came in hotter / faster / and I bet flatter , less AOA. Must have been interesting along the foul line :eek:

This is interesting the bold part more so ,


Mishap rate
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e3/Uss_midway_crusaders.jpg/180px-Uss_midway_crusaders.jpg (http://www.woodenboat.com/wiki/File:Uss_midway_crusaders.jpg) http://www.woodenboat.com/skins-1.5/common/images/magnify-clip.png (http://www.woodenboat.com/wiki/File:Uss_midway_crusaders.jpg)
Two Crusaders prepare to launch from USS Midway (http://www.woodenboat.com/wiki/USS_Midway_(CV-41)); their variable-incidence wings are in the "up" position.


The Crusader was not an easy aircraft to fly, and often unforgiving in carrier landings where it suffered from yaw instability and the castered nose wheel. It earned a reputation as an "ensign killer" during its early service introduction.[5] (http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/#cite_note-Mersky-4) Not surprisingly, the Crusader's mishap rate was relatively high compared to its contemporaries, the A-4 Skyhawk (http://www.woodenboat.com/wiki/A-4_Skyhawk) and the F-4 Phantom II (http://www.woodenboat.com/wiki/F-4_Phantom_II). However, the aircraft did possess some amazing capabilities, as proved when several Crusader pilots took off with the wings folded. The Crusader was capable of flying in this state, though the pilot would be required to reduce aircraft weight by ejecting stores and fuel prior to landing.[2] (http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/#cite_note-Tillman-1)


Anyone here know if that is possible ? How could so many people miss the fact that the wings where folded !!!!! Cat checkers , gear crew , let alone the shooter/ Cat Officer!!!

Phillip Allen
08-16-2009, 12:10 PM
Ah, spoken like a true Snipe !:D :D

always glad to get you airdales within hiking distance of the things you're qualified to do... :)

Paul Girouard
08-16-2009, 12:17 PM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/28/F8J_TU95_CV34.JPEG/800px-F8J_TU95_CV34.JPEG

F-8 , the Big O (USS Oriskany) , and a Russian bear.

carioca1232001
08-16-2009, 01:25 PM
.......My school Physics teacher served aboard her during much of WW2 and was understandably proud of the fact. Being schoolboys, we could often divert a Physics lesson, via ballistics and ship stability, into Naval history...

Going off thread a bit, but now that you´ve mentioned it .........if only teachers were to know how to motivate their students and turn a drab subject (Newton´s Laws of Motion, for example :)) into pure excitement ;)

Houndog
08-16-2009, 06:43 PM
BB-35 The only one of it's kind left on earth.

Bob Adams
08-16-2009, 07:13 PM
BB-35 The only one of it's kind left on earth.

Oh yeah, with recip engines. Last of the Dreadnoughts isn't she?

Phillip Allen
08-16-2009, 08:41 PM
No more than about 3' of hog there either

2' 4 ˝"...ask a bricklayer

PatCox
08-16-2009, 09:31 PM
Paul, my brother was a grape ape on the Swanky Franky for a mediterranean tour in the late 1960s, I am sending those pics to him.

Paul Girouard
08-16-2009, 09:50 PM
Paul, my brother was a grape ape on the Swanky Franky for a mediterranean tour in the late 1960s, I am sending those pics to him.



He might enjoy these links as well , lots of photo's and history.

http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/42.htm

Damned some of these navy sites expire your photo links , :(that was a good one! I'll leave the red X I think if you right click on it , it will pop-up the properties so you can look at it.



http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/024219.jpg


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Franklin_D._Roosevelt_(CV-42)

http://www.navysite.de/cvn/cv42.htm

Hope he enjoys them.

The Bigfella
08-17-2009, 01:01 AM
Boy oh boy, the photogs of the Iowa class going off are pretty impressive. Big guns, not little guns, big. The Japanese Yamato had guns that were bigger, but we had six of them ships and they only had one.

Rubbish

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/51/YamatoClassBattleships.jpg/800px-YamatoClassBattleships.jpg

The Bigfella
08-17-2009, 01:08 AM
The third of the Yamato class battleships was reconfigured as an aircraft carrier. She - the Shinano - remains the largest vessel sunk by a submarine

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1e/Shinano_photo.jpg/800px-Shinano_photo.jpg

Bob Adams
08-17-2009, 06:06 PM
always glad to get you airdales within hiking distance of the things you're qualified to do... :)

Yeah, how hot would they be without someone to put 30+ knots of wind down the flight deck and steam in the cats?;)

Paul Girouard
08-17-2009, 07:08 PM
Yeah, how hot would they be without someone to put 30+ knots of wind down the flight deck and steam in the cats?;)



We are forever grateful for the efforts of the ships company and especially those below decks.

There is that better?

Sam F
08-18-2009, 08:48 AM
Rubbish

Easy does it there big fella. Not everyone is up to speed on the rather arcane aspects of the Japanese battleship building program in the mid 20th century. :)

Andrew Craig-Bennett
08-18-2009, 12:58 PM
But some of us enjoy this trivia...did you know that the Musashi was built within eyesight of the US Consulate at Nagasaki but the USA was quite unaware of her existence?

Actually, you probably did know that...;)

I was once shown the building slip, with great pride, by a friend in Mitsubishi Heavy.

Bob Adams
08-18-2009, 05:20 PM
We are forever grateful for the efforts of the ships company and especially those below decks.

There is that better?

Jus Jokin;) Besides, we know you guys loved us.

The Bigfella
08-18-2009, 05:41 PM
Easy does it there big fella. Not everyone is up to speed on the rather arcane aspects of the Japanese battleship building program in the mid 20th century. :)

Hey - that was taking it easy. Ten seconds of finger-walking would have let Jack find the answer.

Paul Girouard
08-18-2009, 07:13 PM
Besides, we know you guys loved us.




Well thats a stretch , but we couldn't get there without ya.

Sam F
08-19-2009, 07:51 AM
Hey - that was taking it easy. Ten seconds of finger-walking would have let Jack find the answer.

Of course its easy. Practically everything fits under that "google" category. But it helps a lot if you already know what you're looking for and haven't been misinformed to start with. That's the case for lots of people.

Pirate-at-heart
08-19-2009, 09:32 AM
I know its a stupid question, but who built battleships faster during WW2?
I heard that the Japanese built their battleships a bit faster than us.
Any truth in that?

Andrew Craig-Bennett
08-19-2009, 09:42 AM
Ah, my sort of question...

Actually nobody can build a battleship quickly!

The all comers'record is held by the Royal Navy, with HMS DREADNOUGHT, in 11 months, but that was a "stunt" intended to demonstrate that despite having made all other battleships obsolete the RN could still outbuild anyone else. It was never repeated.

I'm afraid it's a "how long is a piece of string" question, because you needed to make the guns, turrets,armour, propulsion system (boilers, turbine gears, propeller shafts, and so on) rangefinders and so on, and on, and on, and then assemble them.

Machining the heavy components required a location where bedrock was close to the surface, otherwise the huge machine tools went out of whack, and assembling them required heavy craneage. If you didn't have the machine tools and the cranes then you had to build them first... so if you were already tooled up for battleship construction you could get one in the water sooner than starting from scratch.

Consequently almost nobody built a battleship during WW2 - they had almost all been started before the war, and were finished either during the war or (HMS VANGUARD) finished soon afterwards - and she inherited "her great aunt's teeth" - to save time she was fitted with spare WW1 vintage 15" guns left over from cancelled battlecruisers.

Pirate-at-heart
08-19-2009, 10:03 AM
titillating! Very interesting. I found myself experiencing a slight rush of dopamine while reading your reply.

(goddamm I am bored!)

But about how long would it take? And I find it rather hard to believe that nobody laid down and also launched a battleship during the entire four year span of WW2.

Thanks for the answers.

Andrew Craig-Bennett
08-19-2009, 10:10 AM
Er that would be six years ...;)

Here's one:

Ordered 1941 launched 1944 commissioned...1946...

http://www.maritimequest.com/warship_directory/great_britain/battleships/vanguard_1944/02_hms_vanguard.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Vanguard_(23)

Andrew Craig-Bennett
08-19-2009, 10:28 AM
A quick look around suggests that indeed VANGUARD was the only battleship ordered and (almost) completed during WW2.

All the others were ordered and started before the war began, they took between four and six years to build and they were all designed in detail before the orders were placed.

martin schulz
08-19-2009, 10:31 AM
Consequently almost nobody built a battleship during WW2 - they had almost all been started before the war, ...

And Germany's effort to built its first aircraft-carrier GRAF ZEPPELIN was futile from the beginning.
It was hindered by constant changes in the carrier design, its purpose of usage, shortages in steel and welders. Also Erich Raeder who was in charge of the project found no support in U-Boot-man Dönitz and even faced opposition from Airforce-man Göring, who was afraid about losing influence.

Pirate-at-heart
08-19-2009, 10:34 AM
god, look at how bored am I! Trying to argue about how long it took to build a freaking battleship with a guy who clearly knows WAY more than I do about this subject arcana. and I dont even like battleships!

but, look at this...
The USS Missouri (1944-1998) took 3 years for completion.

Notable dates:
Laid down:6 January 1941
Launched:29 January 1944

The USS Iowa took less time:
Laid down:27 June 1940
Launched:27 August 1942

Andrew Craig-Bennett
08-19-2009, 10:45 AM
Er, launching a ship is not the same thing as completing her... espescially not if she is a large warship -the date that you need to look for is the date of commissioning.

Andrew Craig-Bennett
08-19-2009, 10:57 AM
And Germany's effort to built its first aircraft-carrier GRAF ZEPPELIN was futile from the beginning.
It was hindered by constant changes in the carrier design, its purpose of usage, shortages in steel and welders. Also Erich Raeder who was in charge of the project found no support in U-Boot-man Dönitz and even faced opposition from Airforce-man Göring, who was afraid about losing influence.

A perfect example of the difference between launching and commissioning - which in the case of GRAF ZEPPELIN lasted the entire war!

With the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, the failure of the German carrier programme was hugely to our benefit.

martin schulz
08-19-2009, 11:25 AM
With the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, the failure of the German carrier programme was hugely to our benefit.

Well the "private first class" Hitler was never much of a military genius and when it came to war on sea, you can say he was even more stupid. In 43 Hitler even ordered that all larger ships should be scrapped. Obviously he wasn't able to see beyond the impressive firepower of the battleships (even the air carrier was designed to be able to raid the coast).

martin schulz
08-19-2009, 11:40 AM
Browsing through the net for pictures of Graf zeppelin I came across 2 US Zeppelins, who were used as aircraft carriers.

I didn't know about that.

But since those airships count as warships, here is the story.

USS Macon (ZRS-5) was a rigid airship built and operated by the United States Navy for scouting. It served as a flying aircraft carrier, launching Sparrowhawk biplanes. In service for less than two years, in 1935 Macon was damaged in a storm and lost off California's Big Sur coast, though most of her crew were saved.

At less than 20ft (ca. 7m) shorter than Hindenburg, she and her sister, Akron, were among the largest flying objects in the world in terms of length and volume. Although Hindenburg was longer, the two sisters still hold the world record for helium-filled airships.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a0/USS_Akron_releases_its_N2Y_1_aircraft.jpg



Edited to add:
This is really one thing I wish we would recreate: Large rigid airships/Zeppelins. To travel at slow speed across the big pond, the Alps, Africa...must have been great.
I had much hope when the cargo-lifter project started, but that was obviously one really big flop and the tiny Zeppelin in Friedrichshafen one can hardly call a proper airship (its much more an airboat ;) ).

Phillip Allen
08-19-2009, 12:04 PM
Er, launching a ship is not the same thing as completing her... espescially not if she is a large warship -the date that you need to look for is the date of commissioning.

why not the date of the beginning of sea trials...or the loading of ammunition or such

andrewe
08-19-2009, 12:13 PM
Saw this thread a bit late ( work y'know:rolleyes:) A classmate at junior school's father was a naval commander and wangled us a visit the HMS Vanguard in Pompey harbour. Tea on board and a demo of how the big guns were operated after a tour of the ship. Impressive stuff in the turrets, obviously no live fire. But the noise was huge when they dropped the hoist back down to the magazine.
Re Blondie Hasler. We stayed in the 'Toque Blanche' Hotel while looking for a house here. That was the place where they ran out of money and asked the waiter for help, in English, in a restaurant with German officers eating.
The place is full of momentos left by SBS guys who do a sort of pilgrimage in memory.

I also had a long chat with the owner of the diving co. who salvaged the X-craft from the fiord after the Turpitse (sp) attacks. He said the bottom was littered with bits of aircraft from the many attempts. They retrieved one complete sub and one battered by depth charges.

I always liked the Daring class of patrol boats. 3 Proteus gas turbines at 6,000hp each. 60kts plus. They used to escort the Cowes Torquay powerboat race and could have won it every time.
A

Andrew Craig-Bennett
08-19-2009, 12:22 PM
why not the date of the beginning of sea trials...or the loading of ammunition or such

Because the "commissioning" date is when the ship is ready, and is handed over by the shipyard.

Phillip Allen
08-19-2009, 12:24 PM
Because the "commissioning" date is when the ship is ready, and is handed over by the shipyard.

maybe, but I thought the question was how long it took to build

Andrew Craig-Bennett
08-19-2009, 12:28 PM
Yes, but a ship is being built until she is ready (very much so, in a lot of cases!) Everything has to work and to work reliably, otherwise she is no use, and cannot be considered a warship.

Phillip Allen
08-19-2009, 12:30 PM
semantics...functional vs perfect

perhaps the question is worded wrong

Andrew Craig-Bennett
08-19-2009, 12:31 PM
Saw this thread a bit late ( work y'know:rolleyes:) A classmate at junior school's father was a naval commander and wangled us a visit the HMS Vanguard in Pompey harbour. Tea on board and a demo of how the big guns were operated after a tour of the ship. Impressive stuff in the turrets, obviously no live fire. But the noise was huge when they dropped the hoist back down to the magazine.
Re Blondie Hasler. We stayed in the 'Toque Blanche' Hotel while looking for a house here. That was the place where they ran out of money and asked the waiter for help, in English, in a restaurant with German officers eating.
The place is full of momentos left by SBS guys who do a sort of pilgrimage in memory.

I also had a long chat with the owner of the diving co. who salvaged the X-craft from the fiord after the Turpitse (sp) attacks. He said the bottom was littered with bits of aircraft from the many attempts. They retrieved one complete sub and one battered by depth charges.

I always liked the Daring class of patrol boats. 3 Proteus gas turbines at 6,000hp each. 60kts plus. They used to escort the Cowes Torquay powerboat race and could have won it every time.
A

http://www.worldnavalships.com/images/hmsbraveborderer.jpg

http://www.bmpt.org.uk/boat%20histories/brave%20class/index.htm

Andrew Craig-Bennett
08-19-2009, 12:35 PM
semantics...functional vs perfect

perhaps the question is worded wrong

"Commissioned" means functional.

Philip, here is a good illustration:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1e/Shinano_photo.jpg/800px-

The Imperial Japanese Navy's largest aircraft carrier - the SHINANO - torpedoed and sunk by the USS ARCHERFISH because she was not commissioned - watertight doors not operational.

Sam F
08-19-2009, 12:44 PM
"Commissioned" means functional.


Andrew's obviously right. Oft times a ship would be launched without armament... that's obviously not a functional war ship!

Phillip Allen
08-19-2009, 12:45 PM
ya need them doors alright...

Phillip Allen
08-19-2009, 12:46 PM
Andrew's obviously right. Oft times a ship would be launched without armament... that's obviously not a functional war ship!

they were launched with no upperdeck weight at all...

damnyankee
08-19-2009, 12:52 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:USS_PT-105.jpghttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/42/USS_PT-105.jpg

80 Foot Elco. Its even topical.

"They where expendable" and "An American gorilla In the Philippines" are two of my favorite books.
Three Aircraft engines, 4 torpedoes and 30+ kts of angry

Christopher

Sam F
08-19-2009, 12:59 PM
Browsing through the net for pictures of Graf zeppelin I came across 2 US Zeppelins, who were used as aircraft carriers.

I didn't know about that.


The Akron and Macon were simply amazing ships and well worth the trouble to do further research on. Whenever I tell folk about the US flying aircraft carriers, I'm always met with disbelief. They were intended to function as eyes of the fleet, but radar made them obsolete. Their loss was a tragic, not only for the crew and their families, but also a fatal blow to the US airship program.



By the way, arguably the most successful US Navy airship, the USS Los Angeles was beautifully built by...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a8/Uss_los_angeles_airship_over_Manhattan.jpg

the Zeppelin company!