Mountain Ash

[RT MAN]

Would Mountain Ash be acceptable bending wood for mast hoops. there is plenty of Mountain Ash in Alberta. I have given up on the White Oak that I can get around here because it is kiln dried and not suitable for bending 5.5" hoops. There are no WO trees in Alberta.

Rufus

[Tom Hoffman]

I live in Iowa and I try all differenct kinds of woods. If I were to use my preference, elm, or hackberry would be good for hoop bending as they have interlocking grain and bend readily and in thin pieces can take remarkable bends with out steaming, not a small as you are talking about but close.

Here is a link the explains the process very simply:

http://www.simplicityboats.com/masthoops.html

I would think if you had Kiln Dried WO, all you would have to do is follow his procedure and it would work. What the heck, try one and find out.

[Pirate-at-heart]

You shouldnt burn mountains.
:)

[David G]

RT,

I'm guessing what you're calling mountain ash is "red ash" - which is the most common ash, IIRC, in Canada. If that's true, it's one of the tougher ashes and should do quite well for bending your hoops, and for a long life of service on your boat. All of the ashes bend well, but remember that they want straight, clear grain. One characteristic of ash is that it splits easily, which is why it is used for pieces that need to be riven, rather than sawed. Even a tiny pinhole knot can start a split when being bent onto your form... and cause a failure. Even though ash is one of the better, tougher, long-lasting choices, they still do sometimes break. My catboat friends tell me they always thread an extra hoop or three on when they set up their rigging, so a single broken hoop doesn't turn into a major operation.

[RT MAN]

I have tried the kiln dried WO with about 50 1/8th strips it doesn't bend into 5.5" hoops. Even after soaking in water for several days I steamed the strips to 190 degrees all broke. So enough of that time to try some thing different.

David G, it is Red Ash I'm going cut a branch off one of the trees in the yard that been bugging me for a while now.

Our forest in BC have been burning for a while now that bothers me to.

Rufus

[Mrleft8]

Remember that Ash has next to no rot resistance, so you'll need to use some serious penetrating preservative. Surface treatments (like varnish) won't last too long on a high abrasion bits like mast hoops.

[David G]

Remember that Ash has next to no rot resistance, so you'll need to use some serious penetrating preservative. Surface treatments (like varnish) won't last too long on a high abrasion bits like mast hoops.

I've never owned a rig with mast hoops. However, I seem to remember friends who have saying that the varnish (or cetol in one case) of a mast hoop running on the varnish of a mast lasts a... l o n g time. That's not been your experience?

[Paul Girouard]

I've never owned a rig with mast hoops. However, I seem to remember friends who have saying that the varnish (or cetol in one case) of a mast hoop running on the varnish of a mast lasts a... l o n g time. That's not been your experience?



I have no experience with mast hoops and chaffing, BUT that condition of, things running against other things that have finish on them, chaffing off of the finish would seem to be the normal reaction.

Maybe the "magic" of wooden boats negates that normal process.

[David W Pratt]

My experience is that varnish on varnish is so high friction/grab that you can break a hoop. On Truth, I wax the mast with some canning wax, have leather on the hoops, and a line from the parrels to keep each hoop horizontal as it goes up.
Good luck.

[tapsnap]

How are you bending the white oak? You should be able to bend 1/2" oak to 5 1/2" diameter if you are using a backing strap.

[boylesboats]

I have tried the kiln dried WO with about 50 1/8th strips it doesn't bend into 5.5" hoops. Even after soaking in water for several days I steamed the strips to 190 degrees all broke. So enough of that time to try some thing different.

David G, it is Red Ash I'm going cut a branch off one of the trees in the yard that been bugging me for a while now.

Our forest in BC have been burning for a while now that bothers me to.

Rufus

If you can.... Get aholt of some greenest fresh cut White Oak splits. They can bend around your finger very easy without breakin'.. Woven baskets are made with this stuff..

[tapsnap]

1/2" Black walnut would bend to that kind of diameter also.

[Roger Cumming]

Not to change the subject here, but reading about all the problems with mast hoops I wonder why people still use them instead of lacing their sail to the mast. You avoid marring the varnish on the mast and the need to make and maintain the hoops. I laced the mainsail on our 9,000 lb yawl for the 15 years I owned her and never once did we have trouble getting the sail down quickly. And the same line was used for the lacing for that entire time - indicating how little stress there was in the lacing.

[MRJarret]

RT MAN wrote:
"I have tried the kiln dried WO with about 50 1/8th strips it doesn't bend into 5.5" hoops. Even after soaking in water for several days I steamed the strips to 190 degrees all broke. So enough of that time to try some thing different."


In my humble opinion, 190 degrees is 21 degrees too shy... For successful steaming, you need H E A T.


Michael

[Three Cedars]

Native mountain ash in Alberta is weak wood not suitable for mast hoops. Better off biting the bullet and getting white oak. Saskatoon will work if the hoops are narrow, Saskatoon is tough wood.

You can always laminate the hoops and kiln dried wood will work fine for that , might be an idea to soak it for a day or two before hand.

[RT MAN]

I was doing some more research and have discovered the Alberta has plenty of Tamarack wich is very rot reisitant and flexible. I may be trying it as well as I have some of it to.

Tamarack has been used for snow shoes since the begining of time.

Rufus

[Mrleft8]

Another thing you could consider is getting some White Oak veneer and wrapping it around a piece of appropriately sized PVC pipe. Use resourcinol glue, not epoxy, or a thousand angry forumites will tell you that the Oak/epoxy joint will fail, and you'll be lost at sea. ;)

[skuthorp]

In Aus the 'Mountain Ash" is a tall flowering eucalypt hardwood harvested for it's timber. Makes beautiful flooring.

http://museumvictoria.com.au/forest/images/mr008326_md.jpg Photographer - John Broomfield
Source - Museum Victoria
http://museumvictoria.com.au/forest/images/mr008327_sm.jpg http://museumvictoria.com.au/forest/images/spacer.gifhttp://museumvictoria.com.au/forest/images/mr007123_sm.jpg Photographer - Ross Field




http://museumvictoria.com.au/forest/images/mr008284_sm.jpg Photographer - John Broomfield
Source - Museum Victoria
http://museumvictoria.com.au/forest/images/spacer.gif
Eucalyptus regnans


http://museumvictoria.com.au/forest/plants/ash.html