PDA

View Full Version : how to start a storm



jonboy
08-05-2009, 05:27 PM
All seems very quiet here about the Sodini gym shooting.... let the bollix commence.....how about revoke the second amendment for starters???

You know of course the ' right to bear arms' is in fact a mispelling of a complaint made by some 16th century 'Grand Tour' tourists, who, upon visiting Santa Crocia in short sleeved habergeouns and tabards were refused entry to see the Leonardo de Crappio's Last Brunch and decided to colonise America instead with the demand 'it's our right to bare arms, its bleedin' hot here in Fire-enze..
Singletos dominus bracos nudio letus fukoffos to Amerigo and kill each other in scolaris a ginasios...

Tom Galyen
08-05-2009, 05:34 PM
Revoke the 2nd amendment is on the lefts "to do" list along with getting the White House "Snitch on your Neighbor" program up and running. :)

bobbys
08-05-2009, 05:34 PM
All seems very quiet here about the Sodini gym shooting.... let the bollix commence.....how about revoke the second amendment for starters???

You know of course the ' right to bear arms' is in fact a mispelling of a complaint made by some 16th century 'Grand Tour' tourists, who, upon visiting Santa Crocia in short sleeved habergeouns and tabards were refused entry to see the Leonardo de Crappio's Last Brunch and decided to colonise America instead with the demand 'it's our right to bare arms, its bleedin' hot here in Fire-enze..
Singletos dominus bracos nudio letus fukoffos to Amerigo and kill each other in scolaris a ginasios....

Ok i dont know German could you translate that last part.

I may understand the fukoffos part cause the neighbors yell something like that when there mad at me:)

jonboy
08-05-2009, 06:16 PM
Roughly speaking,
let somebody have a hammer and sooner or later they will nail something, let somebody have a gun and sooner or later they will nail someone.

Glen Longino
08-05-2009, 07:39 PM
"let somebody have a gun and sooner or later they will nail someone"

Roughly speaking,
that is grossly untrue!

paladin
08-05-2009, 07:56 PM
I've had 4 handguns in my sock drawer for about 30 years now and no one has been shot yet, I gave two of them away to friends, and two more scheduled to go away....ain't killed nobody this month, but the month ain't over yet, ......

David G
08-05-2009, 08:26 PM
Revoke the 2nd amendment is on the lefts "to do" list along with getting the White House "Snitch on your Neighbor" program up and running. :)

Mr. Galyen,

I may have mentioned it before, but I have to say... I absolutely hate bombast and hyperbole masquerading as civil discourse.

Do you have any evidence to back up this claim, or are you simply regurgitating the putrid nonsense that someone has fed you? I know lots of liberals - urban & rural; east & west; old & young. None of them (that's a grand total of zero) have any interest in repealing the 2nd amendment.

I read a wide range of publications as well. I don't recall any of the liberal bent advocating such a repeal.

Every once in a while, though, I hear a liberal talking abut how, "those conservative idiots are all trying to turn our country into a fascist state." This comment is equally specious and nonsensical. And it's equally deserving of challenge.

So... Please back up your statement (if you can). Maybe there's a movement afoot that I've entirely missed till now?

Cheers,

Bob Adams
08-05-2009, 09:02 PM
Roughly speaking,
let somebody have a hammer and sooner or later they will nail something, let somebody have a gun and sooner or later they will nail someone.

Oh bull****. Give someone a computer and the will eventually make an asinine post....proven.

Glen Longino
08-05-2009, 09:29 PM
Oh bull****. Give someone a computer and the will eventually make an asinine post....proven.

Worse yet, he''ll probably whack somebody with his mouse.:rolleyes:

pipefitter
08-05-2009, 09:44 PM
Of all places, Portugal could use a 2nd amendment like ours.

Phillip Allen
08-05-2009, 09:53 PM
give someone a kitchen knife and sooner or later he'll stab someone
give someone a car and sooner or later he'll hit someone with it
give someone law and sooner or later he will brake it

shall we go on and demand emotional REACTION to everything
give a church enough rope and sooner or later they'll hang someone
and on and on...

seanz
08-05-2009, 10:02 PM
Give it a rest..........

:)


Not sure why Mr Galyen is worried by the Whitehouse's "Lag a Limbaugh Listener" program.
How did he feel aout the Bush wiretap program?

boylesboats
08-06-2009, 01:31 AM
give someone a kitchen knife and sooner or later he'll stab someone
give someone a car and sooner or later he'll hit someone with it
give someone law and sooner or later he will brake it

shall we go on and demand emotional REACTION to everything
give a church enough rope and sooner or later they'll hang someone
and on and on...

May I add...
Give someone a steel toe logger boots and sooner or later he'll kick and break someone shinbone...

The Bigfella
08-06-2009, 01:43 AM
Since I joined this forum, in May 2002 according to my original login, there's been over 600,000 people shot within the US borders.

Imagine how bad it would be without the 2nd Amendment to protect you.

paladin
08-06-2009, 02:20 AM
Since you have joined this forum, Ian, your gun deaths have gone down...BUT....Your road deaths have skyrocketed...
In the last 10 years the average death due to autos has been an avarage of 1700 deaths per year, and 17000 serious injuries per year...at a economic cost of 15 billion dollars a year....
Drivers caused 45 percent of the deaths, passengers accounted for 24%, motorcycles 14%, with trucks and buses contributing their share.....
Based on population and using your logic, They should remove all motor vehicles from OZ and not allow even bicycles.
and yes...I researched it.

The Bigfella
08-06-2009, 02:40 AM
Since you have joined this forum, Ian, your gun deaths have gone down...BUT....Your road deaths have skyrocketed...
In the last 10 years the average death due to autos has been an avarage of 1700 deaths per year, and 17000 serious injuries per year...at a economic cost of 15 billion dollars a year....
Drivers caused 45 percent of the deaths, passengers accounted for 24%, motorcycles 14%, with trucks and buses contributing their share.....
Based on population and using your logic, They should remove all motor vehicles from OZ and not allow even bicycles.
and yes...I researched it.

Care to provide a source?

The Bigfella
08-06-2009, 02:47 AM
Since you have joined this forum, Ian, your gun deaths have gone down...BUT....Your road deaths have skyrocketed...
In the last 10 years the average death due to autos has been an avarage of 1700 deaths per year, and 17000 serious injuries per year...at a economic cost of 15 billion dollars a year....
Drivers caused 45 percent of the deaths, passengers accounted for 24%, motorcycles 14%, with trucks and buses contributing their share.....
Based on population and using your logic, They should remove all motor vehicles from OZ and not allow even bicycles.
and yes...I researched it.

(I've added the emphasis, btw)

The reason I asked for your source, btw, is that I know that not to be the case.

For example....




Between 2002 and 2007, road deaths decreased by an average annual rate of 0.9 per cent.

The average annual decrease for females was 2.5 per cent, and for males 0.3 per cent.

... is from page 1 of this publication.

http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roads/safety/publications/2008/Ann_Stats_2007.aspx

Chuck, I like you mate, but this is an assinine comment, unsupported by any supposed logic you are ascribing to me. Care to outline the logic I've supposedly used please?



Based on population and using your logic, They should remove all motor vehicles from OZ and not allow even bicycles.
and yes...I researched it


Are you suggesting that I've ever advocated the removal of guns? Show me where.

jonboy
08-06-2009, 02:57 AM
I actually agree with most of the above, though I'm not quite sure about Portugal needing a 2nd amendment but that's not the point....

The fact is where people of any legal or criminal persuasion cannot get guns, in effect, there are fewer gun related deaths. No, or almost no, gym killings, high school killings, kid finding papa's hand gun in the sock draw and popping his sister, or himself. The car and kitchen knife argument doesn't compare. Some things you need some you don't. If you want a handgun, fine, have one, I truly have no problem with that, but don't argue that you need one.
I don't think the banning of handguns in UK was an 'emotional' reaction, but as there had been only two incidents of the high school nature in living memory, Dunblane and Hungerford, and none since the ban perhaps that says something....

The Bigfella
08-06-2009, 03:42 AM
I know you started on guns, but since Chuck veered off onto cars, its interesting to note that in Oz, its one road crash death per 12,500 or so people per annum. In the US, its one per 7,400 or so. I wonder why?

Don't you guys have all these big safe trucks, big straight roads, etc?

jonboy
08-06-2009, 04:05 AM
Breaking News...
.
Man bursts into dance class wearing logging boots and wielding a mouse...Three people bruised... seventeen a bit frightened.

boylesboats
08-06-2009, 02:08 PM
question How to start a storm


answer Blow (fart) into paperbag

paladin
08-06-2009, 03:12 PM
Ian...I used information published on the internet by your countries motor vehicles bureau.

The Bigfella
08-06-2009, 05:16 PM
Ian...I used information published on the internet by your countries motor vehicles bureau.

So did I - but I referenced mine, and I'd sure like to see a link to something that says other than what my source does - because it just ain't so.

Dave Wright
08-06-2009, 06:21 PM
That's an interesting reference on traffic stats you presented Mr. Bigfella, thanks for posting. Usually the only Australian stuff I read concerns multihulls; no question you folks are great in that category.

But back to your reference, looks to me like there's wide variation in your traffic death rates among the various territories. You folks have a lot of areas to work on!

I imagine we could find wide variation across the U.S. too. There's no question that here in the U.S. we are impossibly f*cked up in all sorts of ways. I haven't looked at Australian data to see if you're perhaps just as f*cked. (I use this language because I find that the "bilge" is so far removed from any relationship to boating that it should be renamed the "sh!thouse.")

Anyway, I'm not sure that comparing Australian stats to U.S. stats in any particular area can lead to any meaningful conclusions. We're a 300 million plus melting pot, you're a 21 million cup of tea.

Anyway, best regards to you and no ill will intended here.

paladin
08-06-2009, 07:37 PM
Here's a start, Ian.....and you can look up the rest, as I did...
I specifically went looking for deaths/injuries etc of motor vehicle involvement for specific years from 2002 to present....

in this area...
[PDF]
Road crash casualties and rates, Australia, 1925 to 2005
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
within 30 days of the road vehicle accident where death is attributable to ... data are sourced from the annual publication Motor Vehicle Census Australia ...
www.infrastructure.gov.au/roads/safety/.../1925_05_casualties.pdf - Similar -

The Bigfella
08-06-2009, 08:13 PM
Here's a start, Ian.....and you can look up the rest, as I did...
I specifically went looking for deaths/injuries etc of motor vehicle involvement for specific years from 2002 to present....

in this area...
[PDF]
Road crash casualties and rates, Australia, 1925 to 2005
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
within 30 days of the road vehicle accident where death is attributable to ... data are sourced from the annual publication Motor Vehicle Census Australia ...
www.infrastructure.gov.au/roads/safety/.../1925_05_casualties.pdf (http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roads/safety/.../1925_05_casualties.pdf) - Similar -

That link doesn't work Chuck, but it is the same source department that I used.

I've located that report though... see if this link works...

http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roads/safety/publications/2008/pdf/1925_05_casualties.pdf

If you go to p15 of the report that I linked:

http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roads/safety/publications/2008/pdf/Ann_Stats_2007.pdf

... you will find the most useful statistic - deaths per 100 million kilometres travelled. This allows better comparability between years - because, in a recession, say - people travel less. The number of people killed in 1976 (per 100 million kilometres travelled) was 3.55 - and this has dropped consistently since 1976, to the 2007 figure of 0.76 per 100 million kilometres travelled.

In population terms (deaths per 100,000 population), it was 26.59 in 1975, with a consistent fall to 7.69 per 100,000 population per annum in 2007.

Deaths per 10,000 registered motor vehicles was 4.32 in 1980 - it is now down (with consistent falls every year except one when there was a very slight rise) to 1.09. Its not so good for motorbikes - its 4.67 deaths per 10,000 registered bikes, down from 14.23 in 1980 though.

This article might give you a bit of a handle on why the toll has fallen so much since the mid 70's here.... its more than halved in outright terms, from more than 3,500 deaths per annum in the mid 70's to around 1,600 these days.

http://www.iatss.or.jp/pdf/research/32/32-2-11.pdf

... oh yeah - Dave, there's always something to be learnt. The question is whether you are willing to pay the price to learn it.

Glen Longino
08-06-2009, 09:04 PM
Good job, Dave!!!:)

Dave Wright
08-06-2009, 09:17 PM
/Ann_Stats_2007.pdf[/URL]

... oh yeah - Dave, there's always something to be learnt. The question is whether you are willing to pay the price to learn it.




I don't understand what you mean. I've always viewed acquiring knowledge as a useful and rewarding experience. I've never thought that there was much of a "price to pay," although some areas of heat transfer and fluid mechanics seemed a bit painful.

In anycase, I'm not about to research the underbelly of Australian life to see if I can compare your rates of alcoholism, wife beating, sex crimes, school cheating, charitable giving, or what have you, to see if you're "better than us" or "worse than us" in any particular area, or maybe even overall on some inane scale.

Just not interested in the comparisions. We share a common language, that should be enough of a commonality, and I'll let it go at that. Not interested in crowing about cultural differences and how they might impact the statistics.

The Bigfella
08-06-2009, 09:43 PM
I agree with you btw Dave - no need to get into the underbelly issues, just a mild reaction on my part to you saying there is nothing to be gained from understanding why things happen elsewhere. That, after all, is how progress is made everywhere.

The variation between states and territories isn't much to worry about. There's some specific issues which are well understood - and the territories added together don't make enough of a storm to fill a teacup.

The four main states (NSW, Victoria, Queensland and South Australia) pretty much dominate things anyhow.

I don't like some of the approaches that have been taken - specifically those aimed at ease of enforcement rather than lifting driving performance, for example. Others outlined in one of the documents I referenced are directly transferrable to other countries.

James River Rat
08-06-2009, 10:11 PM
The gun in my right front pocket never hurt anyone...

You will never eradicate guns..only remove them from the law abiding and leave them with the criminals!!

Tired but true. Guns don't kill people...people kill people. Just a tool that can be used for good AND evil!

Phillip Allen
08-07-2009, 09:05 AM
with guns we seem to want to compare deaths to the number of males who die in the US while with cars we seem to use a ratio of deaths of all humans against miles traveled...is that useful?

why not compare deaths by firearm against number of bullets sold?

skuthorp
08-07-2009, 09:17 AM
"how to start a storm"

Did that alright, mission accomplished!
BTW, re road deaths. Many single vehicle crashes are probably suicide, but not found that way by country coroners in deference to the victims family.

Phillip Allen
08-07-2009, 09:52 AM
and sky diving deaths are suicide by ego...

Glen Longino
08-07-2009, 10:10 AM
and sky diving deaths are suicide by ego...

Heheh!
When I'm ready to depart this world, I'll announce my plan to paddle my kayak across the Gulf of Mexico in September.;)

jonboy
08-07-2009, 11:43 AM
Statistics are often unverifiable but even allowing for collossal errors how about this....
England...almost no guns, (well, many thousands probably and mostly illegal).. pop. 60million
USA 200 million handguns (est.)... pop 300 million
death rate due to guns UK : one a week (50 in 2007-8 police stats)
death rate USA between 30 and 100 A DAY. A DAY (12000 and 35000 a year depending on sources
Keeps the population down, sort of Darwin awards thing.

The Bigfella
08-07-2009, 04:36 PM
with guns we seem to want to compare deaths to the number of males who die in the US while with cars we seem to use a ratio of deaths of all humans against miles traveled...is that useful?

why not compare deaths by firearm against number of bullets sold?

Why not actually do some research for once Phillip. Show us there's something in there.

Tell us about gun ownership and usage ratios male / female. Then compare it to vehicle ownership and usage ratios male / female.

Think you can do that?