PDA

View Full Version : Wrong-Way Taconic Driver Was Drunk, High



Joe (SoCal)
08-04-2009, 02:15 PM
This was BIG local news around these parts the last week or so. A woman who drove her mini-van for nearly two miles the wrong way on a suburban parkway before crashing in a fiery wreck that killed eight people herself, her 2-year-old daughter and three young nieces, as well as three men in the car she hit. :(



Schuler called her brother, Warren Hance (http://www.nbcnewyork.com/topics?topic=Warren+Hance) -- the father of the three older girls who died -- at about 1:02 p.m., saying she was feeling ill and may have been disoriented. He told her to stay put and he would come to meet her, but she apparently disregarded those instructions.


Well it seems toxicology came back and ...... Toxicology results have found that driver Diane Schuler's blood alcohol level was 0.19 -- more than twice the legal limit --and she was impaired by marijuana

FOOKING DRUNK AND HIGH AT 1:02 in the FOOKING AFTERNOON :mad: WITH 5 kids in the car WTF !!!!


local-beat (http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local-beat/)
Wrong-Way Taconic Driver Was Drunk, High: DA



Updated 2:37 PM EDT, Tue, Aug 4, 2009


http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2009/08/05/alg_schuler.jpg

Diane Schuler, posing here with her son Bryan, daughter Erin, and husband Danny, was driving the wrong way on the Taconic when she crashed into a van.

http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2009/07/28/amd_crash.jpg Sabo/News The scene of the deadly accident on the Taconic State Parkway.

http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2009/07/28/amd_taconic-map0728.gif JR/News

Related News

Articles


Mom drove erratically for 60 miles before Taconic crash, witnesses say (http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2009/08/03/2009-08-03_schuler_drove_erratically.html)
Mom's cell phone may provide clues in fatal Taconic crash (http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2009/07/30/2009-07-30_cops_find_lis_moms_cell_phone_say_she_dumped_ce ll_moments_before_ta.html)
'No medical reason' for horrific crash: autopsy (http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2009/07/28/2009-07-28_no_medical_reason_for_taconic_state_parkway_cra sh_autopsy_shows_mom_diane_schule.html)
Before crash, mom told brother she wasn't feeling well (http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2009/07/27/2009-07-27_before_taconic_crash_mom_diane_schuler_told_bro ther_she_wasnt_feeling_well.html)


Death driver Diane Schuler (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Diane+Schuler) was drunk and had marijuana in her system when her wrong-way crash killed eight people on the Taconic State Parkway, sources told the Daily News on Tuesday.
Schuler's blood alcohol level was .19 - about two-and-a-half times the legal limit, investigators confirmed Tuesday.
State Police first learned the toxicology results last Friday, but decided not to reveal the information until the victims were buried.
Police have given the findings to Schuler's family and relatives of the three other victims of the July 26 crash, which killed 36-year-old Schuler, her 4-year-old daughter, and her three nieces, ages 9, 7 and 5. Her 5-year-old son survived.
Also killed were the three Yonkers (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Yonkers) men inside the SUV Schuler hit - Guy Bastardi, 49, his father Michael Bastardi (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Michael+Bastardi),
81 and family friend Daniel Longo (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Daniel+Longo), 74.
"We're beside ourselves," said Robert Guzzo (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Robert+Guzzo). His wife, Roseann Bastardi (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Roseann+Bastardi), is the sister and daughter of the victims.
"Nothing's going to bring them back," he said. I can't say it helps to know what happened."
"In the beginning I was as puzzled as everyone else, but now it makes sense," Guzzo said. "I'm very angry... but it's a tragedy on both sides. I feel for those kids."
Westchester (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Westchester)'s chief medical examiner, Dr. Millard Hyland (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Millard+Hyland), told the Journal News the case has been ruled a homicide and referred to the district attorney.
Investigators revealed Monday that Schuler had been driving erratically for nearly 60 miles before the fiery crash and stopped at a Liberty, N.Y., McDonald's (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/McDonald's+Corporation) on the drive home from a camping trip in Sullivan County (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Sullivan+County).
Her husband, Daniel Schuler (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Daniel+Schuler), told police they left the campground around 9:30 a.m. and his wife was fine.
Around 1 p.m., Schuler called her brother - whose daughters were in the car - and said she was sick and needed help driving.
The brother, Warren Hance (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Warren+Hance), called State Police in Tarrytown (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Tarrytown) to say Schuler needed help. Troopers searched for the red minivan she was driving, but didn't find her in time.
Around 1:30 p.m., Schuler entered the north-bound Taconic via an exit ramp in Briarcliff Manor (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Briarcliff+Manor), Westchester County.
She drove for 1.7 miles before plowing into the Bastardis' Chevy SUV.
"I don't even want to think about if the brother knew what she was doing and let those kids get in the car," Guzzo said.
The Bastardis and Longo were on their way to Guzzo's house for dinner. They were going to discuss an upcoming family vacation to Wildwood, N.J. (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/New+Jersey), an annual tradition.
"We can't bear to go this year," Guzzo said. "I don't know if we'll ever go again."


Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2009/08/04/2009-08-04_diane_schuler_mom_who_drove_van_wrong_way_on_th e_taconic_killing_8_was_drunk_on_.html#ixzz0NFBa24 PJ (http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2009/08/04/2009-08-04_diane_schuler_mom_who_drove_van_wrong_way_on_th e_taconic_killing_8_was_drunk_on_.html#ixzz0NFBa24 PJ)

Paul Pless
08-04-2009, 02:27 PM
Ive had at least one person on here complain about sobriety roadblock checkpoints claiming its police intrusion ( pug from Sc), and several others complain about tha police in general. its this sort of thisn that law enforecemntet is there to protect you against.Yeah the police sure did a good job stopping this tragedy. :rolleyes:

Joe (SoCal)
08-04-2009, 02:35 PM
Yeah the police sure did a good job stopping this tragedy. :rolleyes:

Exactly, see this is what I'm saying wastoids will get high and drive NO MATTER WHAT !! Kids in the car whatever 2X legal limit AND buzzing on some weed no problem, ol Mr POLICE roadblock looking for the stoned mom driving a minivan on the wrong side of the road at 1:00 in the afternoon aint never gonna happen. Guy with 3 beers with his buddys after softball game blows a .08 and BAM his life is OVER.

SIX people called 911 on this crazy bizatch still no PoPo pulled her over
Oh and why did dad leave in her at the at 9:00 am ?? He MUST have known she was all drunk and smoked up, you have to start early to get that far gone and blow near 2.0 BAL. Unless ol momma was sparking a fresh doobie in the car with the kids - ya know it mellows them all down better than ritalin. :mad:

CRAZY PEOPLE IN THIS WORLD

cbcc
08-04-2009, 02:40 PM
The problem isn't the police.

The problem is that people have no center in their life.

Joe (SoCal)
08-04-2009, 02:43 PM
The problem isn't the police.

The problem is that people have no center in their life.

Ayup
Man this just pisses me off to NO end:mad::mad::mad:

There is more to this story how did the husbend let her drive - they must have been buzzin early in the am or all night long. So he had to know at 9:00 she was in no condition. Hell he was probably in no condition but he made it home

Milo Christensen
08-04-2009, 02:46 PM
. . . Guy with 3 beers with his buddys after softball game blows a .08 and BAM his life is OVER.

CRAZY PEOPLE IN THIS WORLD

So, Joe, you gonna have one of these frenzy posting things everytime someone drivng with a higher BAC than you do gets somebody else killed?

This somehow makes your DUI O.K.?

cbcc
08-04-2009, 02:50 PM
Hey Joe! You used to have me on your ignore list. Thanks for taking me off! Made my day. Seriously.

Ignore Milo. He's a real unhappy chap.

Chris Coose
08-04-2009, 02:56 PM
Very sad.
Going the wrong way on the highway for miles is an indication of a black out condition. It happens a lot and it is a very difficult thing to get stopped. Think of the instant logistics cops have to consider to bring a thing like this to safety.

Drunk vehicular travel is the worst thing a person with a progressive, fatal medical condition can engage in.

We had a chronic drunk middle aged middle class woman take 8 years recently for a vehicular homocide for the same offense on a highway.

I work professionally to see people get their driver's licnses back after OUI's. My opinion is after 1 you get 3 year license suspension and after 2 you never drive again. Drunk OAS's? big time in the big house.

Joe (SoCal)
08-04-2009, 02:57 PM
So, Joe, you gonna have one of these frenzy posting things everytime someone drivng with a higher BAC than you do gets somebody else killed?

This somehow makes your DUI O.K.?

My license is ublemished by any DUI or DWI please dont post to the contrary.

I have admited that I have driven after several beers as I'm sure many on this forum have but are unwilling to admit to I have no specific data that my BAL was at or above the .08 limit. As a matter of fact I was pulled over at a checkpoint around Christmas and I PERSONALY ASKED to take a breathlizer because I new my weight and time and the 3 glasses of wine I had at a friends house would be well under the legal limit. It was and I was left to go without so much as a warning.

Phillip Allen
08-04-2009, 02:57 PM
I hate to hear about these things...everybody loses... :(

Joe (SoCal)
08-04-2009, 03:01 PM
Hey Joe! You used to have me on your ignore list. Thanks for taking me off! Made my day. Seriously.

Ignore Milo. He's a real unhappy chap.


You pissed me off enough to put you on ignore with only 107 posts ???? Those must have been some ripe 107 posts :eek:

Rich VanValkenburg
08-04-2009, 03:40 PM
She left at 9:30 and was wasted at 1:30, sounds like maybe she was fine and was drinking and smoking all the way home. 5+ hours is a long time to stay drunk without adding some along the way. Unless she wasn't 'fine' when she left.

The technology is already out there to prevent a car from being started if you're DUI.
I couldn't start my 74 Chevy without everyone in the front seat wearing a seat belt.
A license reader could be part of the startup. If your license is suspended the car won't start.
The technology exists to prevent someone from backing into an obstacle. Why not use technology to disable the motor if the car is being driven erratically or the wrong way on a one-way?

These things might seem like an infringement but it might wake some of us up. Problem is the cost.

Peter Malcolm Jardine
08-04-2009, 03:49 PM
Ontario has seriously upgraded the consequences for driving impaired. Do it three times, you probably will never drive legally again... and you will probably go to jail

A few years ago we had a similiar nutbar incident here in Kingston... the wife of a local funeral parlour owner was driving home from a dinner out with her husband and another couple. She lost control of the car, drove into the corner of a house and killed a grandmother who was watching TV in the family room of her sons house. There were no brakes applied, and the car went so far into the house, it collapsed the floor, and went half way into the basement. One of the passengers in the back seat of the car was also killed. It was her 3rd drunk driving offense. She went to jail. Her husband divorced her, and had to close the funeral home. The local cops told me she never expressed any remorse whatsoever during or after the incident.

BETTY-B
08-04-2009, 04:32 PM
The local cops told me she never expressed any remorse whatsoever during or after the incident.

What does that mean then? She was a drunk sociopath?

jonboy
08-04-2009, 04:58 PM
sounds like she was looking for new clients

BETTY-B
08-04-2009, 05:12 PM
Job security. I had a friend in high school who had a commercial window cleaning business. When times were tight, he would go egging. Hey! I'm not saying it was right!

Ross M
08-04-2009, 06:15 PM
...Theres a thin blue line between you and anarchy. Its getting thinner all the time.

You are doing a great job, Brownie :D

But seriously, to what do you attribute this thinning?

Ross

LeeG
08-04-2009, 06:34 PM
I drove that drunk once with my two toddler daughters in the car, did it a couple times after that. When one is a heavy drinker all kinds of things seem normal. Being a parent doesn't have to change it, divorce or death either. You just keep on doing the same thing until something happens,,then you keep doing it again, or maybe not. At least a functional drunk knows what side of the road to drive on.

"drive on the wrong side of the road, that's crazy!"

Joe, your logic is kinda screwy though. A limit has to be set somewhere and it's .08% That someone can drive with .08% and not cause an accident or someone else is causing an accident at .19 is irrelevant. That's the limit just like there's a speed limit. It's a simple choice, you speed and get a ticket, you drink enough to get .08% and YOU'RE risking it. No one is making you.

LeeG
08-04-2009, 06:51 PM
Ayup
Man this just pisses me off to NO end:mad::mad::mad:

There is more to this story how did the husbend let her drive - they must have been buzzin early in the am or all night long. So he had to know at 9:00 she was in no condition. Hell he was probably in no condition but he made it home

How could the husband keep her from driving, she's the mom and had to go somewhere with the kids. That's perfectly normal.

Maybe she was only .08 with three beers and after a doobie she pounded three more. Pulled over to pee and started up in the wrong direction as she entered her blackout. It's perfectly normal.

Last week I went to the airport at 5am and on the other side of the highway there was a car driving about 50mph against traffic in the slow lane for at least a 1/2 mile. The weird part is that the car was about 7 miles from any turnoff.

It's all perfectly normal.

My daughters have been waiting for the phone call that their mother is dead from drinking for about two years.

It's all perfectly normal.

Captain Intrepid
08-04-2009, 08:02 PM
I work professionally to see people get their driver's licnses back after OUI's. My opinion is after 1 you get 3 year license suspension and after 2 you never drive again. Drunk OAS's? big time in the big house.

Sounds good to me. Drunk driving needs to be something that people fear doing

Arko
08-04-2009, 10:35 PM
Well damn, aren't any of you gonna get all high and mighty and preach about banning this evil substance that made one person go out and kill all these people? If she had used a gun all the little whiney asses on here would be all over it. In this case though it is just"so sad" to qoute one of the respondents. Where is the outrage? Where are the calls of regulation, licensing? How about banning it all together?
Ya'll have a real screwed up double standard. Maybe because some of you have been drunks for a long time so there must not be anything wrong with it.

pipefitter
08-04-2009, 10:37 PM
Did they find pot in the car? Maybe I missed it but pot stays in your system for weeks. I'm more inclined to believe she was out of pot and is why she was drinking instead.

The responses to this is right along with those anti marijuana commercials. One shows a bunch of stoners in a fast food restaurant on a busy street and the commercial has the setup as a child is riding towards the scene on a tricycle, just as the stoners car is about to pull out, yet nobody can see the issue with a child on a tricycle alone on a busy street.

Arko
08-04-2009, 10:48 PM
Very sad.
Going the wrong way on the highway for miles is an indication of a black out condition. It happens a lot and it is a very difficult thing to get stopped. Think of the instant logistics cops have to consider to bring a thing like this to safety.

Drunk vehicular travel is the worst thing a person with a progressive, fatal medical condition can engage in.

We had a chronic drunk middle aged middle class woman take 8 years recently for a vehicular homocide for the same offense on a highway.

I work professionally to see people get their driver's licnses back after OUI's. My opinion is after 1 you get 3 year license suspension and after 2 you never drive again. Drunk OAS's? big time in the big house.

What if they kill a few poeple, say a couple on their way home from a dinner out on Saturday night, after the first time getting away with it. How then would you feel about your professional opinion?

BETTY-B
08-04-2009, 10:59 PM
Weed has a half life in your system of fourteen days doesnt it? I dont see how her B.A.C. went up with weed as reefered to by the guy who started this thread either.

Domesticated_Mr. Know It All
08-04-2009, 11:09 PM
Drunk driving takes lots of practice.
Leave it to the professionals.

boylesboats
08-04-2009, 11:28 PM
Geeezus, that woman killed herself and everyone around her... That is bad, real bad..

LeeG
08-04-2009, 11:44 PM
Drunk driving takes lots of practice.
Leave it to the professionals.

zactly. I never had blackouts. Brownouts maybe but totally missing memory never happened. I remember the stuff I did, pretty much all of it. Oh wait now I remember, in the first series attempts at sobriety where I wouldn't drink for a week I'd read the same book to my girls,,you know how you read the same book over and over and over with little kids? And I discovered new pages in the book. It was very weird. "I've read this book a dozen times and I don't remember this page". I guess that was my version of a blackout. But it didn't take large amounts of alcohol, just a cultivated checking out.

LeeG
08-04-2009, 11:46 PM
Arko, what are you saying?

boylesboats
08-04-2009, 11:51 PM
if I gonna get drunk and rowdy..
Might as well stayed at home and git cops called on me for BUI..

LeeG
08-05-2009, 12:06 AM
if I gonna get drunk and rowdy..
Might as well stayed at home and git cops called on me for BUI..

here you go

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fds_hupE2vQ&feature=related

boylesboats
08-05-2009, 12:28 AM
if I gonna get drunk and rowdy..
Might as well stayed at home and git cops called on me for BUI..


here you go

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fds_hupE2vQ&feature=related

Awww man.. that is funny :D


did you understand... BUI? :D

LeeG
08-05-2009, 01:13 AM
not at all

Bob (oh, THAT Bob)
08-05-2009, 03:22 AM
Well damn, aren't any of you gonna get all high and mighty and preach about banning this evil substance that made one person go out and kill all these people? If she had used a gun all the little whiney asses on here would be all over it. In this case though it is just"so sad" to qoute one of the respondents. Where is the outrage? Where are the calls of regulation, licensing? How about banning it all together?
Ya'll have a real screwed up double standard. Maybe because some of you have been drunks for a long time so there must not be anything wrong with it.

A valid point. Hypocrisy is the bane of our society, happens on both sides, just inverted views. I continually hope for improvement.

60 Minutes just rebroadcast an article about prosecutors going for Murder One for drunk driving with death, not Murder Two (manslaughter), under the argument of depraved indifference, and having success at it, much longer sentences, decades and not months or years. I agree. It is obvious to me when I have had even two drinks in short succession (rare, but sometimes happens at a fancy dinner, with an apertif before, a glass of wine with dinner, then (shoot, what's the word for) one afterward) that I am not 100% and should not drive until it wears off. I'll sit in the lobby and read for an hour or two. It's not a question of whether I could keep the car within the lines. I know I'm not 100%, that's enough. I also know that some who drink loose judgment when they do. But they should know that before they get drunk and make sure they make arrangements so that they cannot drive; they don't have access to the keys, friends have been warned to keep them from driving. No excuse. But while I agree with the deterrence of stiff sentences, I think better education from a very early age would be greater prevention. Parodoxically, I think that means controlled introduction to alcohol, not total ban until age 21 (yeah, right) then open the floodgates. What countries (with alcohol consumption) have the lowest rates of drunk driving, and why?

Soundbounder
08-05-2009, 05:13 AM
They found a bottle of vodka in the car.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/05/nyregion/05crash.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&ref=nyregion

:confused:

Chris Coose
08-05-2009, 05:20 AM
How then would you feel about your professional opinion?

same way

people drive drunk, people shoot people

WTF is your point?

LeeG
08-05-2009, 05:35 AM
They found a bottle of vodka in the car.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/05/nyregion/05crash.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&ref=nyregion

:confused:

oh Christ that's painful to read.

Joe (SoCal)
08-05-2009, 06:12 AM
Yea I heard they found unprocessed 6 oz of alcohol in her stomach so YES she was drinking WHILE driving with children in the car.

Andrew Craig-Bennett
08-05-2009, 06:29 AM
A horrible, horrible accident.

How did she become dis-orientated? Regardless of what she had been drinking and smoking, there must have been a moment when she turned the wrong way.

I was driving with my family along the M6 when we received a traffic warning that an elderly man was driving towards us, the wrong way along the hard shoulder - I must say I found it quite frightening. The police managed to stop him. Seldom have I seen quite so many blue flashing lights.

Chris Coose
08-05-2009, 06:35 AM
How did she become dis-orientated?

She was in a black out condition. Most all wrong way drivers on highways get on to the wrong ramps in black outs.

Depends on the brain to which one is pouring on the ethanol.
One person could become blacked out at .12 where another (such as myself) might take to .40 or more

Blacked out is a condition of alcohol intoxication where a person may appear functional but they are literally out of their minds.

They will wake up the next day and be completely unable to remember the night before.

brad9798
08-05-2009, 06:50 AM
Terrible tragedy ... what a shame!

:(

paladin
08-05-2009, 08:58 AM
Accident my A$$! The woman committed a murder suicide!

Joe (SoCal)
08-05-2009, 09:11 AM
Accident my A$$! The woman committed a murder suicide!

It has been deemed as such by the Police, too bad justice was swift and she never had to face trial on this earth. But I'm sure it's awfully warm where she is now.

LeeG
08-05-2009, 12:53 PM
Bobby, do you get out much?

Brian Palmer
08-05-2009, 01:15 PM
Does anybody know if she had any prior DUIs?

George Roberts
08-05-2009, 02:03 PM
Just wondering, could this woman have been set up? It is hard for me to think a mother could have done this.

I don't think she was set up, but it certainly does not seem to be a rational act.

More than likely something happened that we don't know about.

LeeG
08-05-2009, 02:33 PM
Probably a lot more than you. I have drank more than most people have seen. I have never killed anyone, well with a car or due to drinking. Bobby, aka Dutch, or so they say.

By what logic do you arrive at the idea she was set up for driving on the wrong side of the road with a .19BAC, alcohol in her stomach? Because you can't believe a "mother" could do such a thing?

Where in all the information given that makes you think she was "set up" and what is it about being a mother that exempts her from self-destructive behaviour?

Our respective drinking patterns isn't the topic, just questioning your grasp on reality. The world is full of all kinds of self-destructive people, if they aren't a mother or father they're a son or daughter.

Flying Orca
08-05-2009, 03:32 PM
It is hard for me to think a mother could have done this.

You've clearly bought a whole bunch of mythology. I would suggest you look at who is responsible for the most child abuse, when all forms of abuse are taken into account. Ain't nothin' magical about mothers, man, they just people with kids.

LeeG
08-05-2009, 03:39 PM
Go ask Alice, I think she'll know

Ok,,you're babbling and there's no content in your communication.

LeeG
08-05-2009, 03:45 PM
You've clearly bought a whole bunch of mythology. I would suggest you look at who is responsible for the most child abuse, when all forms of abuse are taken into account. Ain't nothin' magical about mothers, man, they just people with kids.

come on, she was set up by the trilateral commission working through a cabal of highway police, EMT and medical examiners. She was set up to divert attention from Obama.

I had an older neighbor who's daughter was about five years younger than me when my girls were small. The daughter was identified as "the bad one" and not allowed around the house and I was warned no to lend her any assistance. After a couple years we read in the newspaper that their daughter had killed her two and four year old daughters. She was a crack/meth head. When we had newborne babies in the house I remember this friendly cookie making grandma saying "I just love the sound of babies crying"...sent a chill up my back when I read about the dead grandaughters.

LeeG
08-05-2009, 03:48 PM
I think that I have pretty good grasp on reality. This woman seems pretty normal by all accounts. It just seems strange, given the time frame and the phone calls. I guess we will never hear her side of the story. :(

It just seems strange that she's got a .19BAC and alcohol in her stomach and remains of a vodka bottle in the car? You think someone else put that into her body while she's driving down the road?

This is the kind of open ended wondering that the birthers engage in.

LeeG
08-05-2009, 03:51 PM
This woman seems pretty normal by all accounts. :(


what accounts?
my ex was part way into a doctoral program, member of the board of a private school, remarried with a new and improved husband and she's pretty much a few steps from the gutter at age 47.
It's absolutely normal for an alcoholic to get in a car, drink until drunk and have an accident, by all accounts its absolutely normal.

LeeG
08-05-2009, 04:26 PM
All I know is what I read on this forum. The lady at the park said she seemed normal. the time frame given, and then the latter discovery of the broken bottle,it just makes me wonder. I know where you are coming from believe me, no argument intended. Bobby, aka Dutch, or so they say.

right,,she leaves at 9:30 and she's fine. At 1:30 she's crashed. Four hours isn't enough time to get a buzz on? What is the basis for being "set up" or "wondering"?
This is absolutely normal. You stop at a store and get a six pack. The clerk who has known you for years says you seem perfectly normal. After about two hours of driving you've finished off the six pack and there's nothing more to drink and you've got three more hours of driving. All there is is kids juice boxes and that bottle of vodka under the seat. So you have juice boxes and vodka. Boom, you're dead and so is everyone else. It's perfectly normal.

Larch_Keelson
08-05-2009, 06:03 PM
Taconic? What the hell is that? Is that like being in a state of geomotis upheavel? No, that's more like being "tectonic" and high.

ahp
08-05-2009, 06:49 PM
Alcoholics are very good at hiding their addiction.

Larch_Keelson
08-05-2009, 06:53 PM
It's a damned mental illness, is what it is.

Larry P.
08-05-2009, 07:00 PM
Taconic? What the hell is that?

The name of the highway she was driving on.

Soundbounder
08-06-2009, 06:00 AM
Here is a follow up story on the woman:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/06/nyregion/06crash.html?ref=nyregion

Chris Coose
08-06-2009, 06:24 AM
As a drunk reading that story, I can understand the incident and the lies she led.
Most cannot.
That is why in the rooms of a place like AA we can find refuge in the commonality of the darkness of the condition.

It is very difficult for normal drinkers to understand dependence or recovery.
I'd rather be dead than be living as her husband must today.
The surviving child is in deep trouble.

Alcoholism is brutal.

Arko
08-06-2009, 08:26 PM
Arko, what are you saying?

What I was trying to say is that no one get outraged and tries to ban the drink that probably kills more than guns.

LeeG
08-06-2009, 08:48 PM
What I was trying to say is that no one get outraged and tries to ban the drink that probably kills more than guns.

True, it's been tried and no one is suggesting the banning of guns so maybe that's why no one has responded as you wish. Your argument is loony tunes.

Chris Coose
08-07-2009, 04:36 AM
What do you think? Nobody learned anything from Prohibition?
Koo-koo.

willmarsh3
08-07-2009, 05:17 AM
And another article here...

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/07/nyregion/07crash.html?_r=1&hp

riptide
08-07-2009, 05:52 AM
I don't think she was set up, but it certainly does not seem to be a rational act.

More than likely something happened that we don't know about.

My thought exactly. And I bet her husband knows what it is, but isn't talking.

Did anyone else read where her husband and the family lawyer are trying to insist that the real "cause" of all this must have been a stroke?

Paul G.
08-07-2009, 06:24 AM
Hand wringing, finger pointing & gnashing of teeth.....

She was unwell mentally, drink is a symptom before its a cause. Blackout sounds plausible, in which case blaming her is like blaming a sleepwalker for falling out a window.

Look a little deeper, where were the friends and family that could and should have picked up the clues of the trainwreck life. Where were members of the greater community in which she lived? The doctor, the local shopkeeper, the neighbours, the school moms?

You moralising f-wits. Its so EASY to blame, to somehow think that tougher laws will stop this from happening, sorry guys this is the human condition. I suggest you get a little closer to you own "trainwrecks" lend a hand. Perform some community service perhaps. Not everyone is as balanced and wholesome as you.

move on folks, there is nothing to see here unless you hold a up a mirror

Arko
08-07-2009, 06:56 AM
True, it's been tried and no one is suggesting the banning of guns so maybe that's why no one has responded as you wish. Your argument is loony tunes.

But banning guns makes some sort of sense? Do you think that would work?

Arko
08-07-2009, 07:09 AM
What do you think? Nobody learned anything from Prohibition?
Koo-koo.

And how costly an attempt would it be if the gubment tried to do as many here see as a reasonable course of action to stop gun violence and get rid of them? Why are the people who murder with guns so different from those who murder people with alchohol? Why are they not all beer toting rednecks?
Perhaps I cannot articulate my thoughts well enough for any to understand. Many here seem to not have as strong a disdane for drunks who kill as they do for those who use a gun. I am just wondering why.
Since you admit to being a drunk, I can at least understand your feeling that there is nothing wrong with drinking. Maybe you'll understand one of these days when you have a few and put a family in the ground.

Bill Fisher
08-07-2009, 07:12 AM
I never know if it’s a good idea to get involved in these type discussions or not, but here goes…..

Alcoholism runs ramped in my family, I have a lot of experience, from an uncle who drank himself to death, a cousin well on the way, to two older brothers who are in AA. I have no single solution to the problem, I doubt one exists, but we still need to keep trying or else this will happen more often.

I do community service, I'm a volunteer fireman for my town. I've helped clean up this type accident, if I never see another fatality again it will be too soon, which probably gives me a different perspective about drunk driving.


This story really had an effect on me though because it reminds me of an incident that I missed last year. I was in the car with my 3 year old daughter when I was turned around by a Police road block, the road was closed due to an accident. I found out later that I had just missed a call for a multi-car accident with entrapment. A drunk drove his truck, at high speed, into the rear of a stopped vehicle which had a farther, mother and two daughters inside it. The mother and one of the daughters were crushed and killed. The brothers worked for several hours to extricate the two victims, most of those firefighters needed help dealing with the stress after that incident. To this day I don't know if I could have coped with cutting a dead, mutilated, young girl out of that car.


We have made some progress, as a society (in the US), dealing with drinking and driving. The death rate, from cars, continues to trend down (slowly) and at least some of that is attributed to the anti-drunk driving campaigns (and all its variations). I do agree with PaulG in this, get involved on the community level. It will give you perspective (if not necessarily an answer).

Bill

Paul G.
08-07-2009, 07:14 AM
But banning guns makes some sort of sense? Do you think that would work?

Arko,

Pull your head in,

If you want a gun thread, start one. This is about a tragedy.

Arko
08-07-2009, 07:28 AM
True, it's been tried and no one is suggesting the banning of guns so maybe that's why no one has responded as you wish. Your argument is loony tunes.

My argument is simply this. It seems to make some sort of difference how people are killed. One method seems to make people here really mad and another method doesn't.I am just trying to find out why. I don't want anything banned. One method seems to inspire long threads about all of the people who own guns being paranoid nuts and that there has to be something collectively wrong with them. The other group in question, well hell, they just had a few drinks and it was all accident.
I apologize for being loony toons and Koo-Koo. At least I'm sober and have enough will power to stay that way.

Arko
08-07-2009, 07:37 AM
Arko,

Pull your head in,

If you want a gun thread, start one. This is about a tragedy.

Like I said, this isn't about guns. It's about why we as a nation do not want action against alchohol but many want action taken against guns and gun owners. What if she took a gun and killed her family? This would be a totally different issue alltogether. Who on here wouldn't be preaching the evils of guns?
Sure it's a tragedy but if she used a gun it would be a tragedy and a gun issue. Why is it not a tragedy and an alchohol issue?

skuthorp
08-07-2009, 07:38 AM
Being drunk is not an 'accident' it's a deliberate act. One can argue that it's a health issue, an addiction issue, but banning either won't work in the US Arko. Laws don't make a difference to those who have no respect for them or fear of the consequences of breaking them. Or those who are in such a permanently altered state that the real world does not exist. The only answer there is to identify them and take them out of circulation. The US already has the largest proportion of its population in jail of any comparablr country in the world so that's not working either is it.

Paul Pless
08-07-2009, 07:41 AM
Relatives of the Bastardis met with the Westchester County district attorney, Janet DiFiore, on Wednesday morning and emerged with a lawyer, Irving Anolik, who said there was a “strong fragrance of criminality” surrounding the collision. He said that the relatives planned to sue and that they hoped anyone who knew about the alcohol use would be held accountable.


That was quick, you'd think they would take a couple days to grieve and lay their loved ones to rest instead of hiring a trial lawyer.

Arko
08-07-2009, 07:41 AM
This story really had an effect on me though because it reminds me of an incident that I missed last year. I was in the car with my 3 year old daughter when I was turned around by a Police road block, the road was closed due to an accident. I found out later that I had just missed a call for a multi-car accident with entrapment. A drunk drove his truck, at high speed, into the rear of a stopped vehicle which had a farther, mother and two daughters inside it. The mother and one of the daughters were crushed and killed. The brothers worked for several hours to extricate the two victims, most of those firefighters needed help dealing with the stress after that incident. To this day I don't know if I could have coped with cutting a dead, mutilated, young girl out of that car.


You see, this is exactly what happened to my parents, killed by a drunk driver. Where was all of the public outrage then?

Arko
08-07-2009, 07:58 AM
Being drunk is not an 'accident' it's a deliberate act. One can argue that it's a health issue, an addiction issue, but banning either won't work in the US Arko. Laws don't make a difference to those who have no respect for them or fear of the consequences of breaking them. Or those who are in such a permanently altered state that the real world does not exist. The only answer there is to identify them and take them out of circulation. The US already has the largest proportion of its population in jail of any comparablr country in the world so that's not working either is it.

You're right. Being drunk is not an accident it is a choice which is why, exactly like perpetrators of gun crimes, I do not blame their instuments used to commit the crimes, I blame the person and only the person.
Identify them and take them out of circulation???? Exactly what does that mean Should we have them drink themselves to death or will we give them a gun and a bullet?
I agree with what you said, though I have to wonder about that one statement, we have too many unenforcable laws as it is and we all know they don't work.

skuthorp
08-07-2009, 08:06 AM
Like most with addictions, governments make money out of the taxes and special interest groups as varied as policing and lawyers to crack dealers and illegal gambling joints make their living from them. That has to change first.
But maybe natural selection still applies in our 'civilised society' and we should let it happen, hopefully without harm to third parties.

Tom Montgomery
08-07-2009, 08:30 AM
And how costly an attempt would it be if the gubment tried to do as many here see as a reasonable course of action to stop gun violence and get rid of them? Why are the people who murder with guns so different from those who murder people with alchohol? Why are they not all beer toting rednecks?
Perhaps I cannot articulate my thoughts well enough for any to understand. Many here seem to not have as strong a disdane for drunks who kill as they do for those who use a gun.

That's not the impression I have. Everyone seems appropriately horrified.

Drunks do not kill other people with alcohol. They kill themselves with alcohol. Drunks kill others with automobiles, among other things. That is why society takes from them their driving priviledges when they are caught DUI. I wouldn't oppose taking away their firearms as well, but that's just me.

Arko
08-07-2009, 08:31 AM
Like most with addictions, governments make money out of the taxes and special interest groups as varied as policing and lawyers to crack dealers and illegal gambling joints make their living from them. That has to change first.
But maybe natural selection still applies in our 'civilised society' and we should let it happen, hopefully without harm to third parties.

Again, I agree. Soon after public gaming laws were passed here you began to see billboards for gambling addiction help. The methadone(sp) clinics supposedly setup to help with the nasty Oxycontin problems we have here do not actually get people off of anything, they simply add to the selection. The gubments dopehouse. People are allowed to go there and get their "medicine", shortly after which they are as high as kites, and get in thier cars and be on their merry way. Strange.
It's either that the gubment makes directly or they enable all of these little cottage industries to pop up to help the victims of the gubments decisions and they are due tax revenue. Gotta admit, they got it goin on.
So listen, none of this is ever going to change which totally negates the possibility of the lofty, dreamy first part of your suggestion ever working.
"Cash is king Marco"

Arko
08-07-2009, 08:42 AM
That's not the impression I have. Everyone seems appropriately horrified.

Drunks do not kill other people with alcohol. They kill themselves with alcohol. Drunks kill others with automobiles, among other things. That is why society takes from them their driving priviledges when they are caught DUI. I wouldn't oppose taking away their firearms as well, but that's just me.

OK, let me rephrase then. Most don't seem to have a great a disdain for alchohol as they have for guns when they are the perceived reason for a "tragedy".
I am sorry to burst your very small bubble, but the law does not stop anything from happening.
I would never presume to know what another person needs or wants or should have, but thats just me.

Joe (SoCal)
08-07-2009, 08:49 AM
You see, this is exactly what happened to my parents, killed by a drunk driver. Where was all of the public outrage then?

Your parents weren't 3,4, or 5 years of age. Jackass. :rolleyes:
Sorry for your loss but trying to bring gun control into this is like talking about drunk bicycle riding.

Joe (SoCal)
08-07-2009, 08:51 AM
That's not the impression I have. Everyone seems appropriately horrified.

Drunks do not kill other people with alcohol. They kill themselves with alcohol. Drunks kill others with automobiles, among other things. That is why society takes from them their driving priviledges when they are caught DUI. I wouldn't oppose taking away their firearms as well, but that's just me.


Excellent post, thank you.

skuthorp
08-07-2009, 08:51 AM
"the law does not stop anything from happening"

It's not designed to as it makes the presumption that people will follow the rules if the penalties are serious enough. It's reactive, the police only have retribution to leverage with. But it's not their fault, that's the way laws are written. It is of course tied up with individual freedoms, but ignores individual responsibility before the act. Like the gun laws as you say, you have to accept the consequences of the freedoms. To drink, to excess, and then in a drugged state to break the law and consequences only apply if you get caught, or dead.

Tom Montgomery
08-07-2009, 08:58 AM
I am sorry to burst your very small bubble, but the law does not stop anything from happening.
I would never presume to know what another person needs or wants or should have, but thats just me.

Excuse me? Aren't you the fellow who wrote:

The methadone(sp) clinics supposedly setup to help with the nasty Oxycontin problems we have here do not actually get people off of anything, they simply add to the selection. The gubments dopehouse. People are allowed to go there and get their "medicine", shortly after which they are as high as kites, and get in thier cars and be on their merry way. Strange.

Maybe you should order your thoughts before attempting to burst any of my alleged "small bubbles."