If . . . . . .

[stoneyreef]

Bear with me a moment and lets imagine in good humor together .. . . . .

If you wanted to sail down the Mississippi from St. Paul to the Gulf, around the peninsula of Florida, up the Eastern Coast, through the St. Lawrence Seaway all the way back to Duluth Minnesota . . . .

You have about 30 feet long of space and normal 8 foot ceilings but have to get the boat out of a 9X7 garage door. Now the majority of the boat will be built inside the garage but the mast and such can obviously be assembled outside.

Set up for sailing with a small outboard or even an inboard.

What would you build and Why?

[TerryLL]

NIS 23

http://www.nisboats.com/pics/BoatDesignPicsSmall/NIS_23_CHARLIE_FISHER_AT_Ss.jpg (http://www.nisboats.com/pics/BoatDesignPicsLarge/NIS_23_CHARLIE_FISHER_AT_SP.jpg)


It will go out the garage door, good length for a 30' building space, a great coastal cruiser, good sailer, shallow draft, what's there not to like?


http://www.nisboats.com/mainpages/intro.html

[Paul Pless]

You might find this website interesting. Its the narrative of a gentleman doing the great loop on self built Bolger Advanced Sharpie 29.

http://walkurevoyages.blogspot.com/

http://www.ace.net.au/schooner/LKSAIL6a.jpg

[Ian McColgin]

Cool idea. More than my plan to circumnav New England.

[kc8pql]

What would you build and Why?
I'd build a powerboat, because most of that trip is going to be motoring.

[Ted K]

I have been thinking about doing this trip as a retirement project. And I agree with kc8pql, but with one addition.

I figured that this was the sort of trip that really wants a fuel-efficient powerboat with a quiet engine. In addition, my spec include that the powerboat is able to carry or tow a fun sailing dinghy -- I forget if I got the idea of a cruising powerboat with a good sailing dinghy from George Buehler or Phil Bolger.

Before you start building, you might want to go through the exercise of looking at some charts, figuring out days sailed, days motored, nights at anchor, nights in marinas, etc. Then use those figures to help you find a boat that will make your heart go pitter pat.

[Ian McColgin]

I have really been studying the NE, St Lawrence, Champlain, Hudson, LIS circuit. The people who have done that part enough to write guide books are indeed propellor heads who do it in one season, but the route is absolutely divine for a sailor. Most of the river and all of the lake parts are great for a sailboat. The whole is marvelous for the shoal draft adventuror who'd rather anchor in some slough than pay beaucoupbuck$ at some marina plugged in for the air conditioning. And sailing, motor sailing and where absolutely necessary motoring will cost not even 5% of a power boat's fuel bill. Save a fossile.

A bit too long for your garage unless you are willing to make a say 8' shrinkwrap extension (8' allows room to walk around) the 33' Meadow Lark by LFH is really hard to beat. Looks nice and all that. Great traveling boat. Easy enough to stash someplace and build a shelter over for the winter or so that you'll have if you don't keep a really punishing schedule and time things brilliantly.

Thinking of time: I find with Marmalade sailing along Marmalade and I can pretty easily manage up to perhaps 50 nautical miles a day coastal sailing. I could almost double that with Granuaile. The difference is the higher average speed of a catboat - we average 4 knots - versus Grana's easy average of almost 8 coupled with the fact that Grana was so much more restful for sailing that I had no problem running all daylight and some dark day after day solo but with Marmalade I can keep a succession of 10 hours sailing but not a whole lot longer for a week or more at a shot. A small boat is just not that restful and it's harder to make her tend herself while you cook under weight. Coastal cruising is inherantly inefficient since you can't run sole round the clock and even when crewed there are plenty of places where daylight VFR are the way to go. I'd say that for rough planning in this size sailing boat, plot the routes at an average no more that 30 miles a day. You'll so some that are twice that but many where weather or shere beauty keeps your pace way under.

Off-hand I'm not sure whether for your trip I'd go clockwise or counter. It is generally easier to go north along the eastern ICW with some 'long shore hops to miss the boring parts of Florida and much easier to go down east (it's the wind) from Cape Cod to Cabot Strait than the other way. But if you're pressed for time, it might be more expedicious to head north early early ice just broke out spring, push up to the lakes and down the St Lawrence such that you're maybe making a hide from hurricanes break in New England before plugging in November on down to Florida and on.

Fun planning

G'luck

[catndahats]

Not sure if it is the ideal boat for the trip, but one of my old boats made the trip down the Ohio and Mississippi from Indiana to New Orleans with 3 young men aboard. It was a Ruel Parker designed 24ft. Flattie powered by a 5hp. outboard. They had quite an adventure, but were ready to get back on land by New Orleans.

I'm not sure about the conditions on the east coast leg, but along the Gulf coast I'd definitely go in a sharpie or similar...shoal draft, small enough to trailer if plans change, easy to handle alone or with a small crew, easy to build and relatively cheap, and a good outboard for all the motoring you'll be doing.

My dream is to build another sharpie/flattie/skipjack style in the mid 20 foot range and explore the coastal areas Gulf Coast from Mexico to Florida.

[Bruce Hooke]

It seems to me a key question is what approach do you plan to take to the trip? I have made the round trip on the ICW from New England to Florida once and I know from experience that if you are trying to make time (i.e., get from Maine to Florida in a few months) a lot of the ICW will have to be done under power. While it may be fun to coax your boat down, say, the rivers in Georgia, catching breezes as you can, you'll go a LOT slower than if you fire up the iron wind. In the sections that are truly just a narrow canal, motoring is really the only option in almost all cases UNLESS you have a boat that is suitable for extended trips "outside" along the coast. In an boat capable of heading offshore at least a bit you can make the trip from, say, southern North Carolina (south of Hatteras) to south Florida in a matter of a few days, saving many days of motoring down the ICW.

I'd expect that roughly similar logic would apply to the Mississippi, with the added factors that you can't go "outside" and that being inland, reliable wind is likely to be much harder to find. In inland areas you can go days with not enough wind to really make sailing viable.

However, what this all comes back to is how many years do you plan to put into this journey and what speed are you likely to want to travel at?

Regarding the question of clockwise versus counterclickwise, it seems to me that trying to push up the Mississippi from the Gulf to Minnesota would not be much fun! Yes, going the other way you'll have to push up the St. Lawrence, but that seems easier to me than the Mississippi. The section of the St. Lawrence that is truly a river is relatively short compared to the Mississippi.

[Don Z.]

Devlin Czarina

[Bob Triggs]

"Three years in a 12 foot boat- the voyage of Squeak"
By Stephen Ladd

www.duckworksmagazine.com/05/excerpts/sca/1/free.cfm (http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/05/excerpts/sca/1/free.cfm)

[AJZimm]

In an entirely human-powered approach, Bill Hayward made a similar trip in the 90's in a Gartside designed boat commissioned for the purpose

http://www.gartsideboats.com/catrow2.php

[Dave R]

If you're thinking of a trip down the Mississippi, you might find this (http://oursojourn.wordpress.com/page/17/) of interest. It's a blog by a couple who did the trip down and to Florida in their Island Trader Sojourn last summer and autumn. It might give you some things to think about regarding the your choice of vessel.

[John Turpin]

Graham Byrnes' Belhaven 19

- Shoal draft
- Easy construction (relatively)
- Cat ketch rig
- Spacious interior with hidden, offset centerboard case
- Can be built in the space you described

http://www.bandbyachtdesigns.com/bell8.JPG

Now, if you've got the building room, you could go up Graham's line to the Princess 22. More room, more stability, but a little more challenging build. There's also a 26' version of the Princess, but your workspace would probably not support it.

http://www.bandbyachtdesigns.com/prncsrig.jpg

[skuthorp]

A great trip. Not one to rush, you'd have to research the prevailing winds and weather. Probably more difficult than it seems as most forecasts inland are not directed fofr a sailboat. You'd need to go back to the raw data I'd think and extrapolate from that.

[rohinmyson]

A Bolger Micro!

[Mark Van]

I've done most of that trip in different boats, and a power boat is the way to go. There will be almost no sailing on the Mississippi, except Lake Peppin. My first trip was from Minneapolis to the Florida Keys in a 26 foot Wharram Cat. I think I sailed less than 5 percent of the time.
You can avoid the lower Mississippi by taking the Ten-Tom waterway. the Lower Mississippi is one of the most isolated waterways you can find, if you ignore the commercial traffic. There are only 3 fuel stops between St Lous and New Orleans, and you should have a range of about 400 miles. That should be no problem if you arent in any hurry, since you have help of a 5 or 6 knot current.
You can also avoid the St Lawrence by taking the Eirie canal, but if you have a sail boat, you would have to lower the mast for that part of the trip.

[paladin]

I would suggest going to Bateau.com and look at the Baia 24. And then consider a 15 hp inboard diesel.