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BrianW
08-03-2009, 07:37 AM
Obama officials: Taxes may rise to pay health care


By PHILIP ELLIOTT, Associated Press Writer Philip Elliott, Associated Press Writer 58 mins ago

WASHINGTON Two of President Barack Obama's economic heavyweights said middle-class taxes might have to go up to pare budget deficits or to pay for the proposed overhaul of the nation's health care system.

The tough talk from Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner and National Economic Council Director Lawrence Summers on Sunday capped a week that brought rare good news for the economy: The worst recession in the United States since World War II could be on the verge of ending. Even so, officials appeared willing to extend unemployment benefits.

Geithner and Summers both sidestepped questions on Obama's intentions about taxes. Geithner said the White House was not ready to rule out a tax hike to reduce the federal deficit; Summers said Obama's proposed health care overhaul needs funding from somewhere.

"There is a lot that can happen over time," Summers said, adding that the administration believes "it is never a good idea to absolutely rule things out, no matter what."

During his presidential campaign, Obama repeatedly pledged "you will not see any of your taxes increase one single dime." But the simple reality remains that his ambitious overhaul of how Americans receive health care promised without increasing the federal deficit must be paid for.

"If we want an economy that's going to grow in the future, people have to understand we have to bring those deficits down. And it's going to be difficult, hard for us to do. And the path to that is through health care reform," Geithner said. "We're not at the point yet where we're going to make a judgment about what it's going to take."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090803/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_economy

It's okay... it's Obama.

Hey! I think I got a new acronym. "IOIO"... "It's okay, it's Obama."

Paul Girouard
08-03-2009, 08:32 AM
Would those "new" taxes be on all citizens ? What I mean is will folks who have health care provided by thier company , which they say is going to be taxed like income, will those folks ALSO have another tax increase along with this "new" tax increase? So a double tax increase in reality. You know how the progressives always want to bring "reality" up, or at least thier version / preversion of their perceived reality.

George Roberts
08-03-2009, 09:13 AM
Paul Girouard ---

It does not matter how high taxes go. The government will provide for all of us.

Willin'
08-03-2009, 05:30 PM
Wasn't this W's plan all along? Run up a deficit so huge that only a democrat would have the balls to start paying it down?

Memphis Mike
08-03-2009, 05:55 PM
You mean Obama is going to raise my taxes to pay for health care for these undeserving, no good lazy welfare cases? I swear, our country is becoming more socialist by the minute!:mad: I'll show him! I'll be voting Republican in the next election.:mad:

The next thing you know he'll be coming to take my guns.....

paladin
08-03-2009, 06:08 PM
In effect, it looks like a triple raise in taxes....Basic new taxes....an increase in older taxes, and cutting benefits already in existence. If I read the part of the health proposal correctly, when anyone is fined or taxed or whatever under the proposed system, the money doesn't go into the health care fund, it goes to the general fund, where congress etc can dip into it at will and use it for other things...so if the health care fund gets a little fat, they will spend it for something else. If they would stop spending the money on war and providing free security for other countries, how nuch money would they have in current taxes?

Tom Montgomery
08-03-2009, 06:08 PM
Obama said today that a middle class tax hike ain't gonna happen.

Memphis Mike
08-03-2009, 06:20 PM
Obama said today that a middle class tax hike ain't gonna happen.

Thank the Lawd Jesus! I was getting worried there.:)

Looks like it will only be on those that make 250,000 a year and more. Rightfully so.:) Who'd a thunk it.

WASHINGTON - President Barack Obamahttp://images.intellitxt.com/ast/adTypes/2.gif (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32274375/ns/politics-white_house#) remains committed to not raising taxes on U.S. families earning less than $250,000 despite some conflicting statements from senior members of his economic team, the president's spokesman said Monday.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32274375/ns/politics-white_house

Glen Longino
08-03-2009, 06:24 PM
Just more fear-mongering from the whiner section!

pipefitter
08-03-2009, 08:13 PM
Well, if the article at the beginning of this topic is true, with that they "may" have to raise taxes on the middle class, we already know as history as shown us, that will pretty much help to get a ticket out of a second term. And sure as it may boost the economy, the next guy in line will get credit for it as the results roll in. So much so, that the white house will become his oyster. He can be excused for scandalous behavior, lie to our faces and we'll still swear what a great president he is/was.

paladin
08-03-2009, 08:14 PM
Dunno...start reading at about page 700 of the proposal......I'll start again wednesday....and after finishing it will see about a synopsis.

Big Woody
08-03-2009, 08:37 PM
More taxes is always their only answer. Why not cut spending?
Why do we need a National Endowment for the Arts?
Why do we need a National Endowment for the Humanities?
Why can't we eliminate both and pay down the National Indebtedness for the Children?

Glen Longino
08-03-2009, 08:58 PM
More taxes is always their only answer. Why not cut spending?
Why do we need a National Endowment for the Arts?
Why do we need a National Endowment for the Humanities?
Why can't we eliminate both and pay down the National Indebtedness for the Children?

Why do we need a misbegotten war that's lasted eight years?:rolleyes:

pipefitter
08-03-2009, 09:01 PM
Why do we need a misbegotten war that's lasted eight years?:rolleyes:

why do we need to give Hamas 900 million?

pipefitter
08-03-2009, 09:15 PM
Why do we need to give Israel $3 billion, annually?
I don't think we need to.


Aid to Israel passes House

By Eric Fingerhut July 10, 2009

The House of Representatives passed the foreign aid bill Thursday, which includes $2.22 billion in security aid to Israel.

The 2010 State and Foreign Operations Appropriations bill was approved by a vote of 318-106, with 97 of the no votes coming from Republicans (more than half of the GOP caucus.)

When the $2.22 billion in Israel aid is combined with $555 million that was passed in an earlier supplemental funding bill, that makes a total of $2.775 billion in military aid for Israel, in line with the second year of the 10-year, $30 billion memorandum of understanding between the United States and the Jewish state.

Seems we must have enough to throw around. So just how dire is this health care reform?

Glen Longino
08-03-2009, 10:47 PM
why do we need to give Hamas 900 million?

Beats me!:)

Glen Longino
08-03-2009, 10:48 PM
Why do we need to give Israel $3 billion, annually?

Beats me!:)

seanz
08-04-2009, 12:35 AM
. You know how the progressives always want to bring "reality" up, or at least thier version / preversion of their perceived reality.

Neo-cons are actively contemplating reality........

Hope's breaking out all over now.
:D

brad9798
08-04-2009, 08:10 AM
I think it funny that the O-administration is making grumbles about raising taxes ... now, suddenly, it's not about breaking a promise of the campaign, it's about neocons being stupid!

Man ... now THAT is some funny sh*t!

Did I get that correct, BrianW! ;)

I will GUARANTEE my taxes will be raised ... corporately and personally! I'm just glad I can help! :D

TomF
08-04-2009, 08:35 AM
More taxes is always their only answer. Why not cut spending?
Why do we need a National Endowment for the Arts?
Why do we need a National Endowment for the Humanities?
Why can't we eliminate both and pay down the National Indebtedness for the Children?What's the proportion of your annual budget given over to defence spending, in comparison to the National Endowments?

I'd imagine, what with the word "Endowment" in their titles, that the bulk of their spending probably comes from, er, endowments. Rather than straight from annual taxation. Why not run the military the same way?

Tom Montgomery
08-04-2009, 08:43 AM
What??? And no longer be able to enforce our Will around the world? How unAmerican.

Captain Blight
08-04-2009, 09:42 AM
Personally I think the Pentagon needs to go back on War Bonds for funding. I still see no reason why my tax dollars have to go to fund profiteering and corruption and Dominionist theocracy. While I have no real beef with my taxes going up a couple points as long as it gets the needy the real help they need, I got a big problem with my hard-earned bucks being used to further the Bush Doctrine.

Paul Girouard
08-04-2009, 09:08 PM
I got a big problem with my hard-earned bucks being used to further the Bush Doctrine.



It's the big O's now Blighty, where you banned from the election / corrent news cycle? :rolleyes:

How many died this week in Afghanistan, hunting a ghost?

BrianW
08-05-2009, 03:55 AM
WASHINGTON - President Barack Obamahttp://images.intellitxt.com/ast/adTypes/2.gif (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32274375/ns/politics-white_house#) remains committed to not raising taxes on U.S. families earning less than $250,000 despite some conflicting statements from senior members of his economic team, the president's spokesman said Monday.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32274375/ns/politics-white_house

Interesting. Obama's senior team members are not following his orders.

Just as bad. Who's running that place?

:)

BrianW
08-05-2009, 03:57 AM
It's the big O's now Blighty...

Exactly. Once Obama escalated the conflict, it became just as much his.

David W Pratt
08-05-2009, 10:08 AM
I have not heard or read any thing from the President that indicates he knows anything about healthcare, of economics. Why should I trust him?

Big Woody
08-05-2009, 06:31 PM
I'd imagine, what with the word "Endowment" in their titles, that the bulk of their spending probably comes from, er, endowments. Rather than straight from annual taxation.

It should be so easy! Unfortunately the politicians in our country have an Orwellian way with words. Every year they are "endowed" with funds strait out of the taxpayers pockets, and every year they spend it.

For example a quick look at the NEA's 2007 annual report reveals that 124 million was appropriated to them that year forcibly from taxpayers while 4 million came in as "gifts". of these funds 27 million got spent on salaries and expenses to support the program.

So we really are borrowing money from our children(or the rest of the world possibly, depending if we pay it back or just inflate it away) to fund art that Americans do not care enough for to fund privately. My point is that we're still wasting a lot of money on a lot of pork.

Big Woody
08-05-2009, 06:49 PM
These two, together, are a flyspec... far, far tinier than the $11 billion or so of earmarks stuffed into the budget each year by conservative lawmakers (the Dems stuff in very slightly less... around $9 billion).

So the Dems had an additional 9 billion worth of **** they forgot to write into the 787 billion dollar left wing pork fest they called their "stimulus package".

It is a pretty uneven forum when nobody calls you on the 787 billion of bundled lefty pork this year that slipped your mind.

Needless to say I don't want the pork on either side. And yes I know there were a few republican gimmes in the democrats "stimulus". I just have to laugh though when folks make the democrats out to be fiscally conservative.

PeterSibley
08-05-2009, 06:55 PM
I don't know why you boys are arguing , just borrow it from China...like always .
Don't you pay no damn taxes !

ljb5
08-05-2009, 07:21 PM
And yet he's still more popular than the last guy who cut taxes over and over!

Awesome! I bet Obama could raise your taxes, kill your dog and sleep with your wife and still be popular.

Gotta respect that. :)

Big Woody
08-05-2009, 07:22 PM
What would you like to cut? Anything that might affect YOU, for example?

Yes, As a small business owner, I say "Eliminate the Small Business Administration entirely. They do nothing of value. They only create the illusion that the government does anything but suck the life out of small businesses at the behest of larger ones."

As a buyer of American cars, I say "Let nature take its course and let the UAW finish sinking GM and Chrysler. As much as I'm a Chevy guy I'll get used to something new."

As an aircraft engineer, I say "Stop perpetually bailing out the annually bankrupt airlines. Maybe then market prices will rise to sustainable levels and the food and lack of service people complain about among other things can then improve."

As someone who has paid into Social Security for over a quarter century, I say "cancel my plan! :D I'll stop paying, and you can keep my prior payments. I'll use my future payments to put into a real retirement account, and not the government's Ponzi scheme."

As somebody who previously used the Unemployment program recreationally between high dollar jobs contracting as an aircraft engineer. I say "Three months is enough. Paying somebody to not find a job for up to eighteen months is freaking crazy."

Need more? I could go on and on....

Tom Galyen
08-05-2009, 07:23 PM
I first heard the phrase "Tax and spend Democrats" as far back as the 50's. My family was evenly split between UAW supporting Democrats and Anti-union Republicans. Our reunions were interesting affairs. Maybe why I identify with the Irish Rovers song about the "Orange and the Green" so much. So for anyone to accuse the Democrats of tax and spend is nothing new. What is new is the idea that anyone would believe it when any Democrat would say that there would be no new taxes or that they only planned to tax the rich. Think on this John Kerry, Ted Kennedy, Nancy Pelosi, Barney Frank, and now Barrack Obama, and Rauel Emmanuel are all in the above $250,000.00 range. Do you really believe they are going to tax themselves and not the middle class? Talk about drinking the Kool-Aid! :)

Tom Galyen
08-05-2009, 07:28 PM
I like Captain Blighty's idea of war bonds. Last time they were used I think was WWII, and most people who bought them made out alright. At least it would give the middle class some of the money that is going only to the corporate big guys.

Big Woody
08-05-2009, 07:28 PM
I don't know why you boys are arguing , just borrow it from China...like always .
Don't you pay no damn taxes !

I like your plan Peter! :D I think it's a keeper! No doubt our leaders are way ahead of you there boy. Why be responsible when you can binge on borrowed cash for a few more days! According to our politicians we need to spend our way out of debt. (the Keynesian miracle) I hope it works as well as they claim. :)

ljb5
08-05-2009, 08:02 PM
I first heard the phrase "Tax and spend Democrats" as far back as the 50's.

I haven't been around that long, but I've heard them pushing that phrase for decades.

It's just marketing.

Republicans tax, borrow and spend. Democrats tax, borrow and spend.

This is the way it is. This is the way it's supposed to be.

The Republicans had near total control for most of the last decade to show us a better way. How'd they do?

paladin
08-05-2009, 08:07 PM
There are many countries where you can invest and get hi returns. I have been doing it for at least 30 years. The interest rate for a cash loan in some places is between 16 and 22 percent, you must hold it for one year and then you can cash in and perhaps you will get a very modest profit for your money. But if you keep the bond for 24-36 months, you actually win big time. At 36 months you can cash in and take the interest or keep the existing bond. Sometimes the bond will rise slightly in value, enough to make it worthwhile to cash in and open a new one, and then sometimes the new issue is lower, so it is worthwhile not to cash in but to keep the existing bond for another year or two at the better rates. Maximum invested is $10K U.S. but you can do this to 2 or 3 different countries.