Canadian rules and regs

[marcin]

To the Canucks out there:
Im a Canadian lost abroad... but it looks light next Spring I might be moving back to the great white north. At any rate, as I learned to sail here in Poland, and got the local flavour of the sailing patent as well, I am totally ignorant of what the situation is in Canada. I wish to sail on my own, to possibly buy/build and reg a boat, so not commercially at all.

I would like to know:
1. Do I need a licence to sail sailboats in Canada?
2. If so, then where can I find some info about it?
3. If not, then what are the craft limits (LOA, LWL, sail area etc.), and waterbody limits (inland, protected water, etc.).
4. Where can I find more info, so as not to bother the good folks on this forum too much?

[outofthenorm]

For definitive answers, Google "Pleasure Vessel registration, Canada". It's a Department of Transportation matter.

Generally, there is no personal license required for an adult in non-commercial boating, except for an "operator's" license in some jurisdictions. They are usually obtainable for a small tax, er ... fee, with a simply written test and sometimes an on-the-water test. They are mostly a joke - in Toronto, the on-the water test can be taken in a 10 foot tin outboard boat to "prove" you can handle a twin-screw 50 footer - but they at least ensure you know basics like what safety gear you need and the rules of the road.

As for building, apparently any damn fool can build any damn fool boat he or she wants and go upon the waters as they choose. Most boats, either home built or commercially built must be either registered or licensed, but there is little or no inspection required to do so. Declarations are usually enough. Registration is a federal matter, licensing is provincial. Power boats of any size are required to have a capacity plate attached.

Where are you headed in this broad land, Marcin?

- Norm

[TR]

Unfortunately...we are talking about Canada...."Lets make everyone a criminal"

As of September 2009, anyone operating any pleasure craft with an engine (of any HP) anywhere in Canadian waters, must have a Pleasure Craft Operator Card, or have a safety checklist from a rental agency. If you are less than 16 years of age and not directly supervised, you cannot operate a boat with more than 40HP.

See this site for the real info
http://www.tc.gc.ca/marinesafety/debs/obs/paperwork/menu.htm

Every boat in Canada is required to have a Capacity Label, stating maximum load, maximum HP, and maximum number of persons aboard. The Capacity Label is only issued if your boat meets the required construction standards, which mainly cover power limits, stability and flotation for small craft.

As far as I can tell, a pleasure craft with an engine of less than 10HP is not required to be Licensed in Canada. You will need the boat Licensed to take it across any international border.

The RCMP seem to have taken on the enforcement of operators cards, vessel registration, etc. because they have the equipment (boats).

[Don Z.]

Does that include visitors as well?

[P.L.Lenihan]

I would like to know:
1. Do I need a licence to sail sailboats in Canada?
2. If so, then where can I find some info about it?
3. If not, then what are the craft limits (LOA, LWL, sail area etc.), and waterbody limits (inland, protected water, etc.).
4. Where can I find more info, so as not to bother the good folks on this forum too much?


You forgot number 5. Do you need a naval architect? :D:D



Cheers!


Peter......just couldn't resist :)

[TR]

Apparently visitors to Canada have 44 days of grace to obtain an Operator's Card.

Naval Architecture is not exactly a boom business, there are very, very few of us in Canada. There are even fewer boatbuilders. I've had several boatbuilders tell me all the regulation just squashes business, I would guess most small boats sold in Canada are imported.

[outofthenorm]

Unfortunately...we are talking about Canada...."Lets make everyone a criminal"


Ain't it the truth. :rolleyes: This change is all new to me. I've been more or less off the water for 4 years and look what happens. :p I should have known they would find a way to tax my recreational choice.

However, it appears that nothing substantive has changed. Getting the new Operators Card seems to be exactly the same as getting the former version - a written test covering the basics, with (unless I'm missing something) no meaningful on-the-water component. The only real difference is that it's now Federal instead of local.




Every boat in Canada is required to have a Capacity Label, stating maximum load, maximum HP, and maximum number of persons aboard.

This is not the case for home-built, or for what used to be called "Single Vessels", and that usually includes any boat built by a long-gone builder.
Link to discontinued reg notice (http://www.tc.gc.ca/marinesafety/debs/obs/paperwork/paperwork_notices.htm)

[marcin]

Apparently visitors to Canada have 44 days of grace to obtain an Operator's Card.

Naval Architecture is not exactly a boom business, there are very, very few of us in Canada. There are even fewer boatbuilders. I've had several boatbuilders tell me all the regulation just squashes business, I would guess most small boats sold in Canada are imported.

But you know, there's only about 30 million of us anyways. Well... 30 million and 3 if I move back.

I'm split between TO and Hongcouver. I'd rather it be Hongcouver, but I fear it'll be TO.

[outofthenorm]

Interesting. I just took an on-line practice version of the test. I passed (whew) but couldn't help but notice that 6 or 7 of the 32 questions were about PWC! The one that made me laugh was "in an emergency, what's the first thing you should do before setting off a flare." The correct answer was "check the expiry date". I would have thought that "point it away from people" was the right choice. Silly me - that wasn't even on the list.

Now that I know to study up on how to steer a PWC (with the throttle apparently) and how many seats are required in a ski boat (minimum three) , and I'm all set to take the real test.

[gert]

I'd rather it be Hongcouver, but I fear it'll be TO

good

[marcin]

On all of the linked pages it states 'craft designed to be powered by a motor'. Does that mean the motor is the chief means of propulsion, or that it has a motor - period, meaning it includes sailboat auxillaries?

[marcin]

good

Hiya!

Good that it's Vancouver, or good that it'll likely be TO ?:D

[P.L.Lenihan]

The word going around here,at least from the CPS,is that yes, the operators card will be mandatory Sept.'09 but that by late 2010 or 2011, you will have to take the basic boating course BEFORE you can take the operators test.No more silly,easy-to-cheat,on-line tests! A similar move allegedly is also underway in the US.

While I'm all for less government intrusion into my leisure activity of choice and into my wallet, this planned approach appears to be perhaps the best way to reduce stupid accidents on the water.Here in Quebec, a summer doesn't pass without at least a few deaths caused by ill-informed operators.Just last week a gentleman with 30+ years of active sailing and veteran of the racing circuit was killed when his Soling was run over by a 30' Cigarette type speed boat.The speed boat driver claims he did not see the sailboat(imagine how hard it is to see a Soling mast with sails up) and had just ducked bellow for "a minute" to get out his hand-held GPS unit while leaving the helm unattended and the boat underway.Christ!!

I know that ever since I started sailing as a teenager in the early '70's,there have been countless occasions where over the years I've wished for: A)sling-shot,B) potato gun,C)BB-gun,D)rifle,E) torpedo,F) Exocet missle and G) hot line to the Pentagon. The complete sense of fustration at being"powerless" to stop the idiots out on the water is not healthy :)

However, mandatory education, similar to what is required for a drivers license up here, may be the most constructive approach. Not a guarantee against stupidity but certainly a good step in the right direction.

In the mean time, I'll keep working on getting an Exocet:)


Cheers!


Peter

[marcin]

.Just last week a gentleman with 30+ years of active sailing and veteran of the racing circuit was killed when his Soling was run over by a 30' Cigarette type speed boat.The speed boat driver claims he did not see the sailboat(imagine how hard it is to see a Soling mast with sails up) and had just ducked bellow for "a minute" to get out his hand-held GPS unit while leaving the helm unattended and the boat underway.Christ!!

I know that ever since I started sailing as a teenager in the early '70's,there have been countless occasions where over the years I've wished for: A)sling-shot,B) potato gun,C)BB-gun,D)rifle,E) torpedo,F) Exocet missle and G) hot line to the Pentagon. The complete sense of fustration at being"powerless" to stop the idiots out on the water is not healthy :)

However, mandatory education, similar to what is required for a drivers license up here, may be the most constructive approach. Not a guarantee against stupidity but certainly a good step in the right direction.

In the mean time, I'll keep working on getting an Exocet:)


Cheers!


Peter

The new Canadian rules are still pretty tame compared to what they are over here, even after the easing up to mach EU regs. Poland's rules are still based on the communist times, when every sport was in part preparation for military service.
Here, there are 4 categories of sail yachting papers (inland skipper, skipper, sea skipper and yacht captain), 3 categories of motorboating papers (motorboat skipper, sea motorcraft skipper, sea captain), VHF/SRC, and 4 different boating zones, and hence boat categories (with a number of subcats each) plus safety certificates for the ship. Not only do you have to pass exams at each stage (and they get harder as you get higher up), but you have to have an appropriate number of certified at-sea watch hours between them to attempt the exam.
And to operate a sailboat with a motor of over 10HP, you need at least the motorboat papers IN ADDITION to the sailboat papers you need.
The eased up rules have increased the OL of the boat to 6m and 25 m.sq of sail thay you may sail without papers, as well as motorboats of under 6m and with less than 15HP outboards. Thankfully, to charter a boat, most companies still require papers for a boat of any size.

And funnily enough, the strict rules for the more advanced persons (who will mid safety no matter what anyways) have made the water unsafe for them, because of idiots using the new rues and a**holes who have in the past bribed examiners to get 100HP motorboating papers.

Stupidity is more ingenious than bureaucracy and regulations. Always.

[bob winter]

So, where do I go for the online practice exam? Tried finding it on google with no luck.

[outofthenorm]

Bob, this is the place I went.

Boatsafe (http://www.boatsmartcanada.ca/safeBoaterTraining.cfm)

[Harry Miller]

As for building, apparently any damn fool can build any damn fool boat he or she wants and go upon the waters as they choose. - Norm

Hey, I resemble that remark;)

[oldsub86]

I know that ever since I started sailing as a teenager in the early '70's,there have been countless occasions where over the years I've wished for: A)sling-shot,B) potato gun,C)BB-gun,D)rifle,E) torpedo,F) Exocet missle and G) hot line to the Pentagon. The complete sense of fustration at being"powerless" to stop the idiots out on the water is not healthy :)

In the mean time, I'll keep working on getting an Exocet:)


Cheers!


Peter

I have it on good authority that the potato gun is sufficient ( you just have to use almost frozen potatos).

Randy

[Dale H]

For our Eun Mara we got the "Capacity Label". It was needed along with a survey and my operator's card in order to get adequate insurance.

I got my card many years ago at a boat show. The guy trying to get people to write the test said that it was an easy 30 question test but later would get bigger and more complex. Guess he was right.