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BrianW
07-29-2009, 12:39 AM
Did I miss a chance to meet anyone here? ;)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BrianW/the-world-2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BrianW/the-world-1.jpg

http://www.aboardtheworld.com/

Andrew Craig-Bennett
07-29-2009, 01:05 AM
Nice picture.

PeterSibley
07-29-2009, 02:03 AM
I really have trouble with the aesthetics of modern ships !:rolleyes:

Good photos Brian ,better without the white object .

martin schulz
07-29-2009, 02:44 AM
Nice picture.

...ugly ship :-(

Andrew Craig-Bennett
07-29-2009, 04:10 AM
The idea behind the "seagoing block of flats" look is - that is what it is!

Old passenger ships looked beautiful but almost half of their cabins were "inside cabins" with no sea view and a claustrophobic feel to them.

People don't like this; they want a sea view from their cabin, so all modern ships have the public rooms (restaurants, bars, casinos, theatres) low down in the ship with no outside view, because nobody will be looking out, and all the cabins up the top in the superstructure.

ResidenSea takes this as far as possible by having only suites with "balconies".

martin schulz
07-29-2009, 04:57 AM
People don't like this; they want a sea view from their cabin, so all modern ships have the public rooms (restaurants, bars, casinos, theatres) low down in the ship with no outside view, because nobody will be looking out, and all the cabins up the top in the superstructure.

True. I saw a documentary the other day (Meyer Boatyard Papenburg) where a team of interior designers thought about installing flatscreen in the inner cabins showing the outside as if being a large window.

Of course after that idea was brought forward the marketing-idiot in charge instantly talked about making those cabins even more expensive than the outside ones, because of the "enhanced multimedia possibility".


It is true however that those boats are as much plain functional water-vehicles as a cargo ship. One is built to efficiently transport goods, the other one to transport people (a friend, who has been on tramp-ships for years always shied away from those "meat-steamers" as he calls them).

I still believe that good aesthetics are not wasted when you apply them. A sensible interaction of form and function is much better than a mindless concentration on form follows function.

Andrew Craig-Bennett
07-29-2009, 05:06 AM
I very well remember that during the few years when I was responsible for a small cruise ship the regular Chief Engineer, a "double barrelled" (steam and diesel Chief Engineer) Glasgow Scot of formiddable competence (and she needed him - she was no spring chicken!) named John McCall, used to avoid passengers like the plague. He was once persuaded to put on his Number Tens and appear in a passenger space but the sight of a girl on the dance floor wearing a silver lame boiler suit was too much for him and he retired to the officers' bar, muttering that "If she could wear a boiler suit in a passenger space, so could he..." :)

I once asked him why, since he did not enjoy the company of passengers, he had spent his career on cruise ships; his answer was worthy of the breed:

"When I started, the highest temperatures and pressures were on passenger ships - where else would a young man go?"

John's other great line was delivered in a Manila bar. You are to imagine a floor show in the background and swigs of San Miguel between each line:

"Containerisation...

...and the end of the Vietnam War...

....have XXXXXred the East!"

;)

martin schulz
07-29-2009, 05:26 AM
Another thing just came into my mind.

Usually I do appreciate the Bauhaus credo of "form follows function" and I do believe that if the form is created by caring for the function good design will show.

Now I was arguing against this and I wondered why.

I think the true FFF hasn't even been applied in those cruise ships.

What the design people try to achieve is:
a. get as much people into window-cabins as possible
b. get an artificial 30s glamour cruise-ship appearance

So those ships are NOT good examples for design adapted for the intended use. Inside everything is blingbling brass and maritime mock-style.

A better example for FF in cruise ships is probably the easy-jet concept.

Andrew Craig-Bennett
07-29-2009, 05:36 AM
Disney have tried hard to combine the two ideas:
http://dcl2.wdpromedia.com/media/dcl_v0400/Site/DCLContent/Media/Assets/ShipsActivities/Ships/ships_904px.jpg?t=1245453795880

downthecreek
07-29-2009, 05:39 AM
"When I started, the highest temperatures and pressures were on passenger ships - where else would a young man go?"

;)

I love the flashes of insight into the world of the merchant seaman that your posts so often afford! :)

When I go to hell, as seems the most likely destination if the implications of some threads here are to be taken seriously, then it will undoubtedly turn out to be an eternity spent aboard cruise ship very like the one here depicted.

PeterSibley
07-29-2009, 05:43 AM
As usual my problem comes from scale ( not citrus in this case ) , the things are too BIG ! and yes , I know why but when I was a boy I worked on a few small coastal freighters that had in their dotage become sand and gravel barges ...they were still lovely .A sheer and shapely stern , not too big ,not a flat plate anywhere ! Now I know I'm dreaming of a lost era , but the aesthetic was delightful .They were not as profitable as these modern machines but they had qualities that seem long gone .

Andrew Craig-Bennett
07-29-2009, 05:55 AM
For comparison, here is a "Second Class Cunarder", the "Franconia"

http://i535.photobucket.com/albums/ee352/acraigbennett/Photo-02-FranconiaAndLaconia-500.jpg?t=1248864770

martin schulz
07-29-2009, 05:59 AM
What I fail to understand is the fascination those ships have with a lot of people.

Granting that the QM2 does look a lot better it is still a mystery to me why people travel miles and miles to see how rich people enjoy their vacations.
I hear there are even trainspotter sort of people traveling around the world to take pictures of cruise ships.

PeterSibley
07-29-2009, 06:13 AM
For comparison, here is a "Second Class Cunarder", the "Franconia"

http://i535.photobucket.com/albums/ee352/acraigbennett/Photo-02-FranconiaAndLaconia-500.jpg?t=1248864770

I've been trying to find a photo of the SS Wanganella ,quite similar to Franconia as I remember it .I learned to walk on her in 1950 ,crossing the Tasman then crossed again on her when I was 10 .A lovely ship ! :)

Andrew Craig-Bennett
07-29-2009, 08:53 AM
I was seasick on this one when I was three:


http://www.timetableimages.com/maritime/images/svl50i2.jpg

Credit http://www.timetableimages.com/maritime/index.htmhttp://www.timetableimages.com/maritime/images/svl37i.jpg

Andrew Craig-Bennett
07-29-2009, 09:01 AM
but I wasnt sick on this one when I was six:

http://www.timetableimages.com/maritime/images/ltbi1.jpg

Mrleft8
07-29-2009, 09:09 AM
Did I miss a chance to meet anyone here? ;)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BrianW/the-world-2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BrianW/the-world-1.jpg

http://www.aboardtheworld.com/

Floating freakin' nightmare from hell...

Bob Adams
07-29-2009, 09:14 AM
Maybe that ship is where the guys got ideas for the monstrosity awaiting re-almost launch in Misc Boat Related;)

Here's a neat , if not too practical cargo/passenger ship that looks great, IMHO

http://www.radiationworks.com/version2/NSSavannah_4.jpg

Gonna get some current pictures soom...she's in Baltimore.

Andrew Craig-Bennett
07-29-2009, 09:18 AM
Just a few problems with re-fuelling, Bob!

Of course, she doesn't need refuelling very often! ;)

Bob Adams
07-29-2009, 09:22 AM
Just a few problems with re-fuelling, Bob!

Of course, she doesn't need refuelling very often! ;)

I can see her from where I work, she is bedecked with signal flags, if the signalman has a sense of humor, they would read...."UP YOUR'S OPEC":D

pcford
07-29-2009, 09:41 AM
The cruise ships seem to be uniformly dog butt ugly. One sees them leaving Seattle for the great state of Alaska. They look like floating apartment blocks....and seem to have all the grace of one.

Traveling on one with a bunch of people wanting what they perceive to be a luxurious vacation seems to be a working definition of Hell.

When I was a very young pup, I went to Europe on the Maasdam, a Holland American liner. Certainly far from the top of the liners...but...a fine, fine way to travel. (And the Maasdam was the transportation for Lee Harvey Oswald to return to the US)

Has anyone traveled transatlantic on the current incarnation of the "Cunard Line?"

---------------------------------------
The rooster carp...down here with the rest of the bottom feeders

bobbys
07-29-2009, 10:11 AM
I was working in Astoria a while back and they were in, Im surprized how many people came off and invaded the town, All looked happy and in a festive mood, Dozens of them walked up a steep hill where i was working on a roof, I asked them why they were walking up a steep out of the way street in Astoria, They were marching to see the "Goonie" house, The house where they made this movie, As my wife is friends with the gal that owns it and i have fixed her roof to help her i brought them on the porch to look in{she was not home}.

Any way they all said they were having the time of there lives on the ship.

rbgarr
07-29-2009, 10:44 AM
Has anyone traveled transatlantic on the current incarnation of the "Cunard Line?"

My m-i-l did this past spring and a neighbor took a very long cruise last year. Both are ardent sailors (the latter owned an Alden schooner among others) and they had a fine time.

Captain Intrepid
07-29-2009, 11:47 AM
I was working in Astoria a while back and they were in, Im surprized how many people came off and invaded the town, All looked happy and in a festive mood, Dozens of them walked up a steep hill where i was working on a roof, I asked them why they were walking up a steep out of the way street in Astoria, They were marching to see the "Goonie" house, The house where they made this movie, As my wife is friends with the gal that owns it and i have fixed her roof to help her i brought them on the porch to look in{she was not home}.

Any way they all said they were having the time of there lives on the ship.

It really is a great time on a cruise ship, just not so much a seagoing experience. They really are just floating resorts.

downthecreek
07-29-2009, 11:54 AM
It really is a great time on a cruise ship, just not so much a seagoing experience. They really are just floating resorts.

The last place in the whole wide world that I would want to spend a holiday is in a holiday resort (on land or sea) :)

BrianW
07-29-2009, 12:02 PM
I'm going to ask around a bit, and see if the passengers from this ship spent more money than the normal cruise crowd.

One thing about Sitka, is we have no cruise ship dock (for the big ones), and it's really the only stop where the passengers get to take a pictures of their ship in the water. It seems a popular pastime, given the number of people that do it when they're in town.

Andrew Craig-Bennett
07-29-2009, 12:09 PM
That will be an interesting point. Brian.

For those who have no interest in thi sort of thing, the ship in Brian's picture is "The World" which is run as a sort of super time share, with 165 apartments which may be either occupied by their owners or rented out.

My guess is they will have spent less. ;)

martin schulz
07-29-2009, 12:20 PM
The last time (2007/2008) cruise ships came to Flensburg it was really embarrassing for me to live here. First everybody made a big fuss about cruise ships coming to Flensburg and kept talking about the money it will flush in local cash desks, but as it turned out only 10% of the people on the ship stayed in Flensburg while all the other boarded busses to take them to Hamburg, Berlin...
Second, and far worse (I am still ashamed) the local tourist bureau organised a welcome party on the pier which came across like natives dancing around a bonfire, one sees in movies about Cook ;)

And then the bleedin boat was sitting in the middle of Flensburg running their generators 24hrs polluting the whole coastline (including my bureau :( ).


BTW. Lübeck has installed pier-side power supply, so cruise ships and cargo ships don't have to run their generators (of course they rather run the generators since crude oil is much cheaper than buying the electricity). Germany is trying to make land-side power supply mandatory, but Hamburg is not amused since they would need a big power plant to be able to supply the amount of electricity needed. But then what use are the current laws regulating the pollution by cars in inner cities, when ships blow out emissions without end.

bobbys
07-29-2009, 12:50 PM
The last time (2007/2008) cruise ships came to Flensburg it was really embarrassing for me to live here. First everybody made a big fuss about cruise ships coming to Flensburg and kept talking about the money it will flush in local cash desks, but as it turned out only 10% of the people on the ship stayed in Flensburg while all the other boarded busses to take them to Hamburg, Berlin...
Second, and far worse (I am still ashamed) the local tourist bureau organised a welcome party on the pier which came across like natives dancing around a bonfire, one sees in movies about Cook ;)

And then the bleedin boat was sitting in the middle of Flensburg running their generators 24hrs polluting the whole coastline (including my bureau :( ).


BTW. Lübeck has installed pier-side power supply, so cruise ships and cargo ships don't have to run their generators (of course they rather run the generators since crude oil is much cheaper than buying the electricity). Germany is trying to make land-side power supply mandatory, but Hamburg is not amused since they would need a big power plant to be able to supply the amount of electricity needed. But then what use are the current laws regulating the pollution by cars in inner cities, when ships blow out emissions without end..

Here in Astoria the logging and fishing is down, The town geared up for the ships and welcome them, They have a trolley that gives the people rides to town and they set up a welcome stand, Astoria is around 10000 people but very much like SanFran with steep hills, I have never heard anyone complain about noise or pollution and i never heard any noise while i was near, The town gets a much needed influx of Bucks for the shopkeepers But Portland is 100 miles away the next big town so maybe its a bit different then your case. I also heard the people all want to stop here. Untill i stood by the ship i had no idea it was so big.

Captain Blight
07-29-2009, 10:09 PM
but I wasnt sick on this one when I was six:

http://www.timetableimages.com/maritime/images/ltbi1.jpg
IIRC there is a model of the M/V AFRICA in the library of the Paul Hall Center of the Seaman's International Union at Piney Point, MD.


I did a hitch as a sous-chef for Norwegian Cruise Lines. My cruise experience is probably different to a lot of peoples'.

BrianW
07-29-2009, 10:45 PM
Blighty!!!

Welcome back dude!

Andrew Craig-Bennett
07-30-2009, 02:21 AM
Martin and bobbys - many local authorities don't understand the cruise business.

In my neck of the woods, Fred Olsen Lines actually have their head office in Ipswich, but, when Harwich decided to upgrade their ferry terminal to take cruise ships, the local authorities got over-excited and laid on all sorts of "tourist" things. What they didn't understand was that the ships were changing passengers at Harwich - there was nobody disembarking for a day excursion, they were either joining the ship for a week or leaving it after a week. They did not want charming local sights - they wanted a long stay car park!

So it all depends whether the cruise line sees your port town as a "destination" or as a transfer point to somewhere else.

Furthermore, its an iron law of the tourist trade that the inbound spend is tightly controlled by the tour operator (in this case the cruise line) and they will be sure to have a cut of whatever spend there is on coaches, food, entertainment, souvenir shopping, etc.

Cynical old business, isn't it!

martin schulz
07-30-2009, 05:16 AM
What they didn't understand was that the ships were changing passengers at Harwich - there was nobody disembarking for a day excursion, they were either joining the ship for a week or leaving it after a week. They did not want charming local sights - they wanted a long stay car park!

Here I don't really believe that the local authorities didn't understand the nature of the cruise-line event-management. I do believe that they new what was going on, but deliberately tried to fool the public. 1st a cruise ship terminal was built using money dedicated to the Historic Harbour and 2nd it was a welcomed opportunity to show the effectivness of the new tourist bureau.

For the public all they had to do is to rave about the money spent that will stay in town when the cruise ships come and everybody was eager to believe that, without taking the time to look behind the curtains.