How much do you handle lumber to build a boat?

[alteran]

I am making strips for a canoe and have never thought about how many times I have to handle them till yesterday when I didn't have a helper and I had to be the man on both ends of the planer. As I scurried back and forth I wondered to myself,"How many times do I have to do this till I'm done?"

Starting with rough lumber I'm planing each side of the boards [5 boards] twice to get the lumber to clean up and get my dimension. Then ripping the strips 1/4" wide plus. Next I'll plane each side of each strip to get them smooth and all the same 3/16" thickness. [I'm doing this for the first time on a canoe. Trying to get the strips as equal and smooth as I can from the start to eliminate a lot of the fairing and sanding later. 3/16 instead of quarter to keep it more fair in the compound bend areas. Before I've just used them as 1/4" right off the saw.] Then twice through the router table for a bead and cove edge.

520 times of handing the boards.

When I'm done I'll have a pile of sticks instead of a pile of lumber.
It still won't look much like a boat.

I don't think I'll add up all the other steps in the building or I'd lose faith that I could ever build one and probably wonder how I ever did before.

Next time someone asks how much work it is to build a strip canoe I can say, "After 520 times of handling the wood you will then have a pile of sticks to begin building it with." smile.gif

[ 02-21-2005, 02:01 PM: Message edited by: alteran ]

[ssor]

Just think about all the wonderful aerobic exercize you are getting while having a good time. Maybe you could carry all those little sticks in a bundle instead of one at a time. :D

[kc8pql]

OK, first build yourself a runout table for the planer so you don't have to catch them. Then, when you plane the faces of the strips, run 5 or 6, or 8 or 10 thru at a time rather than just one.

[Captain Pre-Capsize]

Al:

Here is a question:

How many splinters do you get from handling all those strips? :D

[JimConlin]

When milling canoe strips, I'd only thickness them once after slicing, allowing maybe .03". Saw texture is OK. It'll be faired off later. To reduce waste, I use a very thin kerf blade originally intended for a cordless saw. When milling the cove & bead, i try to do both passes with the same face of the strip down, and plank with that face against the molds. If there is a variation in the thickness of the strips, it'll all be on the outside of the boat where it's easier to smooth.

[Old Bingey]

I have degenerated down to ripping strips with a fenced Skillsaw. It is much faster and it is even more accurate. I had a power feed on the tablesaw before and the Skillsaw will run rings around it. It is easier to carry a the saw back to the other end of the stationary board than it is to haul a twenty two foot board around a table saw. I use a Matsu****a extra thin kerf sawblade and it'll cut as fast as I can walk and the cut is so smooth that the sawn side of the strip is hard to tell from the planed side. I also only thickness plane one side. I run the bead edge first and then put the fence on the side opposite the head to run the cove (what they call "backfence" in the woodworing trade) so that the shaper acts like a thickness planer to make all the strips exactly the same width. It is still slow boring work.

[George Roberts]

I find it easier to start with one board than with 5. A clear 4x6 is nice.

Plane 2 faces.

Saw into 1/4" slices - 7 passes with a bandsaw gives 8 plump slices 1/4" x 5-1/2".

Plane to finshed thickness (interleave with the previous step if convient) - 16 passes.

Saw into 5/8" or so strips - 64 passes - 8 passes for each of the 8 strips.

+ 2 + 7 + 16 + 64 = 89 passes.

You might need 2 8' long pieces - under 200 passes.

[alteran]

I didn't expect this would turn into a "how to" on strip building but I'm glad it has! Thanks for the good advice so far and please keep on with more if you have some. I'll keep track of it all and use some of these good tips next time.

Anyone else with insight on this?

Thnaks, Al.

[Dan McCosh]

When we laid the deck, we about 5,000 linear ft.--close to a mile, of cedar through the bandsaw just to cut the strips. We wore out two bandsaw blades.

[kc8pql]

And we wonder why fiberglass took over the commercial boatbuilding world? ;)

[L.W. Baxter]

When I saw the words "handle lumber" I was picturing actual chunks of wood, sawdust down the back, sweat dripping off the nose.

Geez.

[Steve Lansdowne]

And just think, you've not yet begun to sand the hull! By the time I finished my stripper canoe I figure I'd sanded every square inch several times through initial sanding/fairing, epoxy coats, and finish varnish coats.

[Mrleft8]

Now just imagine what it was like in the old days, when it was a hand rip saw, and a #5 smoothing plane... :D

[ssor]

Let's see.
>Find tree
>Cut tree down
>remove limbs, save all the crotches
>Hitch mules, oxen ,or horses to log
>Drag log to saw pit
>Make planks
>Go find more logs
>hire more men
No wonder men died young!
>I forgot the viking way,
>Split log in half
>chop away everything that doesn't look like a plank
> one tree two planks
>haul planks to boat building site
>have kids haul chips for fire wood
>No wonder the vikings were so good/bad with a battle axe

[ 02-22-2005, 08:36 AM: Message edited by: ssor ]

[alteran]

Originally posted by Steve Lansdowne:
And just think, you've not yet begun to sand the hull! I saw one at the annual canoe auction in Mpls. once where it appeared the builder had omitted this step.

He didn't spend much time on the glass work either.
He had a reserve price of $100 and it didn't sell.

It was both funny and sad. Obviously a lot of time had been spent getting it to the stripped up stage but from there on the workmanship was deplorable.
I always wondered what the story was behind it. Got in a hurry? Thought the glass would majicly smooth and fair it? or ??

[Garrett Lowell]

I'm building a kayak stripper. Unless my sister wants that canoe she was asking about last month, I seriously doubt that I will build with this method again. My next boat will be either lap or carvel.

[alteran]

How come Garrett? Too time consuming or something else?

[ErikH]

I saw a 4 sided planer/molder the other day. Pity it was over five grand, you could surface and thickness and cove and bead all at the same time :D

Maybe you could rig up some similar highly dangerous thing on your saw table extension: set up a router bit to do the surfacing (just a straight bit) and have the router fence in line with ethe saw fence and saw blade. If you only need one surfaced side per strip, you'd be able to push the wood past the 'router jointer' (thur taking off the last strip's saw marks and) and into the saw blade. hee hee, boy am I bored for thinking of such a thing ;)

[Garrett Lowell]

Al, I feel that I haven't really learned much. The most enjoyable part of the project, so far and by far, has been the shaping of the inner stems with my spokeshave. Otherwise, it just seems that I'm in a creative clamping contest.

I spent a lot of time on the cutting and setup of the molds, which has paid off so far. But the majority of time has been spent manufacturing the strips (I went with 3/16, as well, and I'm glad I did. AYC any thicker would have been mighty difficult to persuade into shape, I think). The least pleasant part so far has been the manufacturing of the strips.

[Bruce Taylor]

Split log in half
>chop away everything that doesn't look like a plankLike so:

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid22/p633c07fd3075570a45deba873165077b/fdac64ff.jpg

[alteran]

Bruce your picture makes me reconsider complaining about sawing out strips. smile.gif

What are you making?

[Bruce Taylor]

Not me, Al...that's (as ssor put it) "the Viking way."

The pics show the construction of the Roar Ege, a replica of a Viking trading vessel found at Skuldelev narrows.

[Dan Lindberg]

Being from MN, I haven't done the B+C thing, yet, just square cut w/rolling bevel.

I cut the strips on a table saw, w/infeed supports and outfeed table that handles 20ft pieces. Thin curf blade and 4 feather boards, 2 pushing against the fence, 2 down.

I try to get 2x stock and cut 2x2 blanks. (Aye grade w/no knotts) 7 passes gets 7 pieces (5/32 thick) 1 1/2 wide. They get taped "back together" while still on the outfeed table. When the other blanks are cut and taped, all get turned 90 degrees and cut in half to get 11/16 to 3/4 wide strips. So 8 passes gets 14 strips, the 3 2x4's are 84 strips in 48 passes.(if I did the math right) 3/16 gets 6 strips per blank, or 72 for the 3 2x4's.

BTW, on this project I saved and weighted the shavings from fitting the strips, they were about 1 lbs and fit in a med size bag.

Dan

[Rod Tait]

And you wonder how kit suppliers make any money doing it for a living? I lost track on how many customers of mine have milled their own lumber and then came back to tell me that they wished they had taken my advice and just bought the strips already milled. Have fun. Soon your hull will take shape and you will forget all about the milling.

[Garrett Lowell]

So, Al, which canoe are preparing to build?

[Steve Schulz]

I would strongly consider Dan's advice and omit the bead and cove edges. My first canoe I did entirely with bead and cove strips. It was kind of a pain since the cove edges are very fragile and splinter easily, and you have to either chuck the whole strip, or settle for what amounts to a large gouge in your hull once you mount the splintered strip on your boat.

If you look at most canoe plans, the sides and bottom are mostly flat and the planking bevel will be almost constant through the length of the boat - maybe half a degree at most. It's very easy to take a couple swipes with a block plane and get a good tight fit. If you're lazy you can even set your table saw to maybe 1/2 degree or so bevel a strip in about 10 seconds. No bead & cove also makes it much easier to fit tapered filler or cheater strips. It also makes it a lot easier to do things like an alternating herringbone pattern on the bottom.

The only tricky part is at the turn of the bilge where the bevel changes quite a bit from stem to midships to stern. Here's what I did on my second canoe: beveled strips from the sheer to the turn of the bilge, then a strip beveled on 1 side, bead on the other. 5 or 6 full b&c strips to get through the turn & once you're around the turn & on the flat bottom a strip with cove on one side, flat on the other to make the transition back to beveled strips, finished the bottom with an alternating herringbone weave. A lot quicker and easier than it sounds, and easier to fair with fewer gaps than the first canoe.

One other thing - go to Home Depot or Lowes, look for the Elmer's Exterior Wood Glue Gel formula or something like that. I think Elmer's also markets the same stuff under the brand name Probond. It's water based, very light tan color, I think they put fine sawdust or something like that in it. You can put a bead of it on the edge of a strip, turn it upside down and it won't run or drip like regular yellow PVA. Blends in and sands better too.

Steve

[ssor]

probond is good stuff but it is all solids urethane, foams a little or a lot depending on the quality of the joint. It will push through a ten penny nail hole, easy to sand, water proof, if soaking for two weeks is a valid test. I haven't used the other.

[JimConlin]

As I see it, there are two benefits from cove&bead strips. That you get a tight joint with no fitting is one. The other is that a cove&bead joint between two adjacent strips encourages them to stay in the same plane, so you get fewer cases where a strip bulges a bit and complicates your fairing job. It takes me about an hour to c&b a set of strips.
The cure for the fragile edge is not to cut the cove so deep that there's a knife edge. Leave the edge of the cove visibly square. Maybe 1/64".

Commercial strips i've seen were very precisely milled but very poorly controlled for color. I prefer that i get a uniform color. I try to color-match the boards i'll cut strips from. If a vendor were to do this right, i'd think about buying strip stock.

[Jamaica Mike]

When I built my stripper (18'), I bought 1" X 12" flat sawn Western Red Cedar in 20 foot lengths, and ripped the strips. No planing. The strips were planed as they went on the boat. Glued with Titebond. When done, I used a razor sharp block plane to remove glue runs and fair the hull. Final fine sanded, and glassed the out side.

It took about 60 hours to build the strongback, cut the lumber and complete the hull, about another 20 hours for all the thwarts, seats, trim, etc. I found this boat refreshingly easy to build.

I have been fishing out of it for over 20 years, and she is still bright and sound.

JM

[ 02-22-2005, 09:37 PM: Message edited by: Jamaica Mike ]

[George Roberts]

Bead and cove strips only fit if laid on a flat surface.

At any other angle the edge of the cove interferes with the bead. (Try to lay a 90 degree angle with bead and cove strips.) For a lot of work the cove can be deformed around the bead and be good enough.

On square edged strips it is seldom necessary to bevel the edges to fit bends. Even PVA glue fills gaps well enough.

[Garrett Lowell]

Jamaica Mike, do you have a picture you can post?

[Keith Wilson]

This thread is the best argument for glued lapstrake construction I've ever seen. 520 times!! :eek: And then you have to fair the hull! OTOH, there are some boats where a very high strength-to weight ratio is critical, and nothing else will do.

[ 02-23-2005, 09:31 AM: Message edited by: Keith Wilson ]

[FG]

AS you are cutting your strips, do not forget to keep the strips from each board together. It helps a lot with matching as you put the strips on the forms.

[Jamaica Mike]

Originally posted by Garrett Lowell:
Jamaica Mike, do you have a picture you can post?Not handy, but I can get my digital camera and take some. What interests you??

JM

[Garrett Lowell]

JM, just wanted to see your stripper. Always a pleasure to see a boat, is all.

[JimConlin]

Bead and cove strips only fit if laid on a flat surface.

At any other angle the edge of the cove interferes with the bead. I've never seen this be a problem, but if it does, it's another reason to cut the coves a bit shallow, leaving a small square edge.
If the coves are cut the feather edge, those edges are pretty pliable.

[Jamaica Mike]

Originally posted by JimConlin:
As I see it, there are two benefits from cove&bead strips. That you get a tight joint with no fitting is one. The other is that a cove&bead joint between two adjacent strips encourages them to stay in the same plane, so you get fewer cases where a strip bulges a bit and complicates your fairing job...I don't think that Cove and Bead is very helpful. It may make it a LITTLE easier to strip up the boat, requires more careful gluing discipline, and presents potential problems when fairing the hull - if it is going to be finished bright.

When I built using strip techniques, I decided to plane strip edges as they went on the boat, and it was actually painless. You develop a feel for the fit and it goes pretty fast. I had no renegade strips - I expect because I used a good many forms in the strongback set up. When done, planing the hull exterior for fairness did not reveal wobbly unfair strip joins, as it could when using C&B.

Just a thot.

JM