bungs

[Alan Peck]

Now I am really in a quandry. I drilled a test hole and installed one of the mahogany bungs I had purchased. It fit perfectly, so I went ahead and drilled about 50 holes of the same size and fastened the mahogany to the boat.

This afternoon I went out to install all the bungs and to my surprise (dismay) they are slightly too big and will not go in. Appararently the one I tested was slightly undersized. A perfect example of murphy's law.

It looks like the bungs are about 1/64" too large.

It looks like the hole needs to be 25/64. That is an odd size, but I guess I could find a drill that size. I suspect trying to drill the holes larger is the only way. However, I hate to use that approach as I suspect the holes will not be as smooth as the holes I drilled with a drill press.

Is there any way to reduce the size of the bungs by 1/64 " by sanding or similar. I can't figure out a way to do it as the bung is pretty difficult to hold while sanding.

Any thoughts would be appreciated. Now I know why a moaning chair is supposed to be part of the shop equipment.

[J. Dillon]

Had the same problem and found a simple solution. If ya only got 50 or so to do. I got a emery board and while watching TV went over each one all around. After a few tries I found it took so many orbits around the bung to make a fit . By the end of the show I had all done and never noticed the effort it took ;)

JD

[Bob Smalser]

I've used two drills before for the same reason....one a tapered screw pilot and a second a jobber bit to enlarge the countersink. Rotate the second bit around a wee tad in the countersink hole as you are drilling will provide a hole with a bit of taper perfect for your oversize plugs.

But that was before I invested in a set of plug cutters that match my tapered screw pilots nicely.

Dip them in varnish or paint, line up the grain favoring the direction of drill bit twist a bit... (they like to rotate in the direction of the drill bit as they are driven)...and tap them in. When the occasional plug doesn't line up perfectly, a prick punch before the varnish dries can often tap it back into alignment. Let the varnish cure before paring flush with a sharp chisel.

[reddog]

Alan;
You said you had purchased the bungs?If so I would purchase the correct size plug cutter and make up some of your own with the drill press and scraps of mahogany.You may wish to try the Lee Valley "snug plug" cutters as they cut a slightly tapered plug.I would go this route before tryong to rebore the counterbore holes or sanding down the purchased bungs.
Cheers;
Earl

[Hughman]

Were the plugs damp when you tried them? Dry them out and try again.

If not, you'll need to make your own.

[kc8pql]

They've probably just absorbed some moisture since they were made. Try spreading them out on a cookie sheet and put them in a warm oven for a few hours.

[seayou77]

How long after you drilled your countersink, did you go to bung the hole?
If it was overnite and the dew got to your project
the moisture might have done a number on you plank swelling shut the hole.
A clothes pin has been used as a handy holder for
epox coated bungs.
Might try a forcener (sp) bit, to get you thru.
Next time bung before miller time!

[JimConlin]

Get a bigger hammer.

[maa. melee]

Put them in a lathe or bring them to a machine shop. 200 bungs could be turned in under an hour by hand by any ole technitian for 20 bucks.

[ 02-20-2005, 11:21 PM: Message edited by: maa. melee ]

[Jay Greer]

As already mentioned, the plugs you purchased are most likely oversized from moisture absorbtion. Baking or micro wave my help.
However, that may also b the case with the counter boared holes in the planking. As a rule of thumb, I always plug my work as soon as possible after driving fastenings. I never wait over night. Again, as was mentioned before, the best way to get a good fit is to make your own plugs using a matching cutter.

[Alan Peck]

Thanks for the ideas. I think it might be the wood itself as I bored the holes over six weeks ago. In addition, the boat is outside (under a cover) in a very damp climate. Next time I'll remember to get the plugs in right away.

Thanks also for the tip to sit in front of the tv and go ahead and hand sand. Its slow, at 5 minutes each, but they fit. And by doing it in the evening in a comfortable chair, its no big deal. Just takes patience.

[ssor]

When this thread started I was intrigued enough to go out and cut three plugs from a piece of mahagony and drilled three holes. 1/2 inch holes and bungs. I tapped one in right then, nice fit. Set the other two bungs out on the porch but under the roof and kept the holes inside, next day the bungs still fit. Just a few minutes ago I tried again, still good. My conclusion, You got a bad batch.
Lately our local BIG BOX STORE has been selling forstner bits as fractional inch sizes when they are actually metric sizes.

[ 02-23-2005, 02:50 PM: Message edited by: ssor ]

[John Meachen]

I wonder whether you may have bought 10 millimetre rather than 3/8 bungs.It is quite likely that they are imported from another part of the world.If you can get hold of a 10mm drill bit,you may be on the way.I admire the patience and persistence of somebody willing to sand down a batch of bungs.If pushed you can make your own cutter if you have access to a lathe.It might not be as good as the professional cutters but for a few dozen it should suffice.You need to turn one end of a piece of something like 5/8 bar down to fit you drill chuck and part off a length that includes 3/4 inch or so of full size bar.Turn it round so that the spigot is in the chuck and drill a hole just under 1/2 inch deep.Take it to a vice and cut two slots in an X formation passing through the centre of the hole and remove the metal between an opposing pair.With a little filing and grinding you ought to be in a position to cut some bungs.As you are unlikely to have hardened the steel,you are likely to have to sharpen the cutting edges from time to time.

[Alan Peck]

John: I am beginning to think that you are right. That the bungs I purchased were defective. When I get home tonight I'll give them a careful measure.

[Alan Peck]

Just measured the bungs that I bought from Jamestown Distributors.

I ordered the 3/8 " size, which I assumed that you would use for a 3/8" hole.

I just measured them and they are 3/8" at the small end and 7/16" at the large end. Obviously, they will not fit in a 3/8" hole.

My question is: Are these manufactured wrong, or are they sized based on the small end dimension and I ordered the wrong size?

I would have thought that a bung labeled 3/8" would fit in a 3/8" hole.

I would like to know so that if I order more in the future, I order the correct size.

Any thoughts would be welcome.

[Donn]

I just looked at the bungs at Jamestown, and the pic does look slightly conical. Is it possible that they are designed for shallow counterbores, and you're supposed to tap/glue them in and saw/chisel off the excess? If that's the case, it would make sense for them to be conical, from the measured (smaller) size up to a larger size, for a snug fit.

[rbgarr]

I suspect that tapered plugs purchased from Jamestown are intended for use in holes made by Fuller tapered counterbore/twist bit sets.

[Bob Cleek]

There's nothing worse than some jerk saying, "I told ya so!" So, I'll just say again to all and sundry, it bears noting that there is practically NO reason to BUY bungs. Even at a nickel a piece, they are hugely expensive. I haven't checked lately, but a bung cutter will run you probably not more than ten or fifteen bucks. A set of the good quality Fuller tapered bits with the countersinks and stops plus the correct matched bung cutter is probably seventy bucks. You can save money by just buying the sizes you want.

It is SO easy to run up a bunch of bungs on your drill press. If you really want to get fancy, you can make up a jig that will let you cut them on strips which leave only a smidgen of wood connecting each bung, like a link belt of machine gun bullets. You can then grab hold of a strip and put them in using the strip as a holder,whack, whack, whack! Just breaking off each bung from the strip after it is seated. The key is that you are making your bungs out of the same lot of scrap wood they are going into. Also, using the strip "clip" method, it is easy to dab the end of each bung in your adhesive without getting it all over your fingers. Additionally, if you cut the strip with the grain, you will always know exactly how the grain runs by the orientation of the strip. It is often pretty hard to ascertain the grain in a bung slathered with epoxy! If a matched cutter is used and the bungs and workpiece they go into are one and the same piece of wood, a whole lot of problems will be avoided. The biggest argument against store bought bungs is their price. The money you save on your first 500 bungs would pay for a Fuller bit and cutter. After that, it's pure "profit!"

[rbgarr]

I agree about making your own bungs and the strip method. I have always made my own, and even if you don't have a drill press, finding someone who does and paying them to run some up or allow you to do it is a possibility.
Keeping hold of my Fuller sets has been the more difficult aspect. They seem to walk off in people's pockets. :mad:

[ 02-24-2005, 09:59 PM: Message edited by: rbgarr ]

[ssor]

The last bung and the block sat out in yesterdays snow and I just drove the last one in.
Have to agree with Bob buy a set of cutters that way you get an exact match with the wood you have been using. I cut them just as close together as I can and then run the block through the band saw. You can pry them out if you want. ;)

[Bruce Hooke]

I see just one problem with Bob's suggestion -- if you do not have access to a drill press trying to use a bung cutter 'freehand' can be kind of dicey.

[rbgarr]

Don't even try to use a bung cutter with a hand held drill. It's a waste of time and dangerous.

That's why Bob (and I) didn't suggest doing it that way. You have to have access to a drill press, and it's really best to clamp or have a substantial guide for the bungstrips or blanks to keep them from jumping out of your hand should the bungcutter bind up. The cutters get hot, dull and gummed up sometimes. And you're holding the strip with one hand while running the drill press with the other.

[ 02-25-2005, 07:34 PM: Message edited by: rbgarr ]

[ssor]

IF ( big if) I have to cut a couple of bungs with a hand held drill I stand on the board with both feet and hold the drill with both hands. it still might walk around a little but my hands are out of harms way. :cool: OF COURSE YOU WEAR SHOES! :D

[Bruce Hooke]

Originally posted by rbgarr:
Don't even try to use a bung cutter with a hand held drill. It's a waste of time and dangerous.

That's why Bob (and I) didn't suggest doing it that way. You have to have access to a drill press, and it's really best to clamp or have a substantial guide for the bungstrips or blanks to keep them from jumping out of your hand should the bungcutter bind up. The cutters get hot, dull and gummed up sometimes. And you're holding the strip with one hand while running the drill press with the other.I agree completely. My point was that lots of people yell GET A BUNG CUTTER and forget that probably 80% or more of the people with a home shop do not have access to a drill press. Faced with the choice of buying bungs or spending a lot of time tracking someplace that has a drill press they can use, buying bungs becomes a pretty sensible solution.

[Dave Fleming]

Drill Press?
I dunno about where you live but Delta is now selling a bench mount drill press in various configs from $150 to $200 or so USD.
That is what some folks are paying for other power tools. I got the 12 inch Variable Speed model and whilst it ain't no Clausing, for $195 out the door it does what I want it to do.

[Paul Scheuer]

rbgarr said - "Don't even try to use a bung cutter with a hand held drill. It's a waste of time and dangerous."

I'm no authority, and results may vary, but -

BDP (Before Drill Press) I cut several batches, and learned a trick or two. So it can be done. I can't say what it does to the tool. (probably not good).

The method that seemed to work for me was to brace myself as firmly as possible without have any body parts near the work area, and put the cutter to the wood with conviction, with the drill running full speed. There may be some skipping, but if you stay as vertical as possible and don't flinch, the cutter will catch and keep itself centered.

The scars from the skipping will come off in the trimming anyway.

[Paulyboy]

Originally posted by Paul Scheuer:
rbgarr said - "Don't even try to use a bung cutter with a hand held drill. It's a waste of time and dangerous."

I'm no authority, and results may vary, but -

The scars from the skipping will come off in the trimming anyway.Assuming you mean the scars in the bungs.

[Ken Hutchins]

First let me add my 2 cents worth about tool justification. YOU NEED THE TOOLS BUY THEM. The cost a plug cutters AND a drill press is LESS than the cost of buying pre-made bungs over time especially if you consider the time savings of being able to line up the grain with the strip method instead of handling the individual pieces and trying to figure out what way the grain is when the plug is covered with goop, and as had already been stated the bungs should be the same material especially if it is going to be finished bright. The tools are a permanent long-range investment and will pay for themselves over time. I still have the 3/8 plug cutter I bought 45 years ago when I needed 12 plugs for my first boat, through the years it had made hundreds of plugs for dozens of projects. I can’t imagine anyone who is building or repairing a boat not making his or her own bungs.
That said and you don’t have a drill press, here is what you do.
First take a scrap piece of wood and cut a slot thru it big enough to accept the strip of material for the bungs, drill a hole thru it the diameter to be the OD of the plug cutter.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid159/p4687502f0b107077be26b60c4323e16d/f4f6b0a8.jpg

Then insert the strip of material, clamp it if you desire and make your plugs with a hand held drill using the hole for a guide.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid159/p8c9dc76aa827edb47257b826ad20c7ae/f4f6b0a1.jpg

Now for a bit of inspiration, what to do if you need a counterbore and matching plug cutter for a size you don’t have, can’t buy or don’t have time to order them, well the solution is to make them. Here is a set I made for 11/16 diameter. The counterbore has a pilot to center in the pre-drilled hole.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid159/p58534a4affcec2398e73c9055274edbd/f4f6b0b0.jpg

[dmede]

This may have been mentioned above, but you can also use one of those crappy little drill guide thing-a-ma-jiggers:

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00004T82L.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

Making plugs is about all its good for, lol.

[Ken Hutchins]

I got to thinking :eek: perhaps there are forumites who don't understand what is meant by the strip method of making bungs. Make the bungs in a strip being careful to maintain depth. I usually make the strip 2 sided then pass it thru the band soar leaving a thin strip of the wood to hold the bungs. Then as they are needed bend 1 back slightly, apply glue, tap the bung into the hole and then break off the strip after the bung in place. This makes it easy to apply the glue and line up the grain. Much better to have a handle on them than fool around with indivual pieces. ;)
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid159/p0a4d7ab3e864d04ee724661c89f58a3e/f4f689aa.jpg

[StevenBauer]

Ken that is so cool! Are you coming up for the Show this year? Mabe you could give a little strip plug demo for whoever shows up this year.

Steven

[Dave Fleming]

Ayup Ken, I'm with you on that strip method.
As an apprentice used miles of those things.
Then to go to another yard where the plugs were cut and popped out of the scrap and into a coffee can. Then it was take a paint can lid, pour a bit of glue in the depression and, then stick individual plugs in the glue and, then pick them out one by one to insert in the counterbore. What a waste of time and frustrating too!

For larger sizes, say to cover a bolt I had my friendly neighborhood machine shop make me a selection pilots of the most common sizes in bolts. In use, attach a Multi-Spur Cutter to the required size/diameter and bore the counterbore, set the bolt and plug the hole.
In the larger sizes you best be ready to raid the piggy bank 'cause them big plug cutters ain't cheap.

http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL780/3097474/6292566/87453604.jpg

There are 3 milled flats to match the Jacobs Chuck and a milled flat for the set screw that the Multi-Spur bits have on the step down collar to affix to the shaft.
Made of 4140 bar stock, one of my favourite alloys.

[Ken Hutchins]

I'll be there, day or days to be determined. Demo sounds like fun. ;)

[Ken Hutchins]

For the larger counterbores I use the Milwaukee bits, they have a removeable screw point held in with a set screw, I have made a bunch of different sizes of pilots. The drills have a hex shank and there is also extensions for these drills. The big one is 2-1/4 dia with a stop collar I made to control the depth, this is my super duper rabbit cutter, it removes a lot of material in a hurry and controls the depth of cut to the planking thickness. ;)
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid159/p18c76526128f02be3db5b7ee31e62975/f4f67556.jpg

[Dave Fleming]

Milwaukee Bits? You mean Milwaukee Electric Tool Company stuff?

[preston]

So, while we're on the subject, does one normally bung screw heads that well hidden from observation? In my case, I'm looking at fastening the sides of my centerboard case to the bedlogs. The screws are driven from inside the case (before assembly!) into the logs. Should I bung 'em?

Thanks,
Preston

[Ken Hutchins]

Dave, yup that's the company, the drill bits are as good as their power tools. The other way I use 'em is put a 1/4 bit in place of the screw point as would be done with a hole saw, these work far better than any hole saw.
Preston, I would think they should be bunged more so to protect the screw and case from water migration than for looks.

[preston]

Originally posted by Ken Hutchins:
I would think they should be bunged more so to protect the screw and case from water migration than for looks.OK, thanks.

Preston