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rbgarr
07-22-2009, 07:40 AM
regarding using them on the road. It would certainly be a crude measure to take, and interfere with non-drivers, airline passengers, powerboat operators, etc., but might there be a way to block the signal to a cellphone if a phone is moving at a speed faster than say 15 mph... or even less?

John Smith
07-22-2009, 07:46 AM
regarding using them on the road. It would certainly be a crude measure to take, and interfere with non-drivers, airline passengers, powerboat operators, etc., but might there be a way to block the signal to a cellphone if a phone is moving at a speed faster than say 15 mph... or even less?
Why? I don't use the cell phone while I'm driving, but my wife, sitting in the other seat can.

Also, both my daughter's have things that let them talk on the cell without using their hands.

Popeye
07-22-2009, 07:47 AM
.. and speed limiters on vehicles , shutters on offensive windows , blocking your neighbors internet content ...

no

rbgarr
07-22-2009, 08:01 AM
No technical answers to the question so far....

Popeye
07-22-2009, 08:11 AM
No technical answers ..
it's not a technical question

rbgarr
07-22-2009, 08:39 AM
Sure it is, and Norman's answer to it was useful.

oznabrag
07-22-2009, 08:50 AM
Sure it is, and Norman's answer to it was useful.

Well..... Technically, it's a technical question.

The implications are pretty political, for lack of a better word.

What's next? Every car has an OnStar-type device that allows the Powers That Be to monitor your every move? Shut your car down at will? Mail you a speeding ticket from monitoring your movements?

This is just the sort of governmental behavior predicted by the framers of our Constitution. Just the sort of thing that document is designed to protect us from.

Government is supposed to serve us, not the other way around.

paladin
07-22-2009, 09:07 AM
It could work in any phone or object subject to motion without the need for the GPS chip. The entire program can be written in a 16F series minimal processor using Hall effect motion sensors similar to that used in a flux gate compass. It is commonly used in electronic tracking and surveillance devices to shut down the system and conserve battery power when the vehicle or person stops moving...and restarts when the began moving again. There are numerous controls as part of the program, such as indicating that the vehicle/person is motionless, and for how long in minutes/seconds, and the last coordinates. Coupled with the GPS it can track to fantastic accuracy, but by using just the speed/motion sensors, you can tell how fast and what direction for how long, and then recreate a very accurate representation of travel.

rbgarr
07-22-2009, 09:07 AM
Thanks, Paladin. I was hoping you'd chime in!

If I could get an auto or health/accident insurance discount by agreeing to have such restrictions and a breathalyzer device installed on my vehicles I might consider it a good investment, especially if I or my vehicle were involved in an accident when the other driver was driving inebriated or on a cellphone and costs were transferred to them. That would be something insurance companies would have to work out, if even possible. Others may also like the option depending on how the numbers would look.

I'm talking personal choice, not government interference. That's all.

Popeye
07-22-2009, 09:22 AM
It would certainly be a crude measure to take..

technically speaking , yes

:D

jonboy
07-22-2009, 09:56 AM
Why? I don't use the cell phone while I'm driving, but my wife, sitting in the other seat can.

Also, both my daughter's have things that let them talk on the cell without using their hands.


I don't think anyone has ever suggested talking on a mobile is the problem. Its the looking down at the screen, staring at the keyboard....
A driver recently ran into the back of a young women stopped with a flat tyre, killing her . She had made twenty three texts in the previous ten minutes. She, ergo, wasn't even talking...She did get a couple of years inside for her fu**wit infatuation.

rbgarr
07-22-2009, 09:58 AM
Perhaps it wouldn't be so crude if I understand (probably not!) what paladin says. If I could get a discount if only my own cellphone shut down while moving, that might be attractive. At first I thought it would have to be a system-wide feature versus a device-specific one.

Wayne Jeffers
07-22-2009, 10:02 AM
regarding using them on the road. It would certainly be a crude measure to take, and interfere with non-drivers, airline passengers, powerboat operators, etc., but might there be a way to block the signal to a cellphone if a phone is moving at a speed faster than say 15 mph... or even less?

Another idea would be to simply detect if the call is handed off from one cell tower to another (i.e. from a moving phone.) If this is detected, then limit the call to a short period of time, say 3 minutes. Less crude than outright blocking of signals.

Wayne

rbgarr
07-22-2009, 10:04 AM
I don't think anyone has ever suggested talking on a mobile is the problem. Its the looking down at the screen, staring at the keyboard....
A driver recently ran into the back of a young women stopped with a flat tyre, killing her . She had made twenty three texts in the previous ten minutes. She, ergo, wasn't even talking...She did get a couple of years inside for her fu**wit infatuation.

Just talking on the cellphone is thought to be a problem. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/21/technology/21distracted.html?em

Unlike driving and talking to a passenger, or singing along with a radio, etc., talking on a cellphone seems to be very different. See the second part of this article. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/13/health/13well.html

Wayne Jeffers
07-22-2009, 10:08 AM
I don't think anyone has ever suggested talking on a mobile is the problem. . . .

Actually, lots of studies show that talking is the problem. Hands-free sets are very little safer than hand-held.

Wayne

phiil
07-22-2009, 10:10 AM
I don't think anyone has ever suggested talking on a mobile is the problem. Its the looking down at the screen, staring at the keyboard....


Yes, it is the talking. Recent studies have shown that the hands-free devices are almost as bad. (i.e., similar to driving with .08% alcohol in your blood) It is different from talking to a passenger in the car because the passenger will tailor the conversation to driving conditions, sometimes warn of situations before the driver sees them, etc.

brad9798
07-22-2009, 10:12 AM
In a few years it will be as evil, legally, as getting a DWI!

It already causes more accidents and money ...

Anyone wanna wager? ;)

jonboy
07-22-2009, 10:22 AM
Actually, lots of studies show that talking is the problem. Hands-free sets are very little safer than hand-held.

Wayne


Interesting, I stand corrected...
but it's obvious that the distracter factor is greatly enhanced by the manual use of the thing aswell
Sir Alec Issigonis, the designer of the Mini and Morris Minor tried for years to have even a radio banned from in the car....

Let alone reaching for your sweeties, changing a CD, turning round to bark at the kids, dog, dropping a burning ciggy into your lap...
and there's growing mutterings about SatNav distraction.....

Chauffeurs should be mandatory and sealed in compartment up front like the good old days....

Warm up the Bentley, James we're orf to the club

Wayne Jeffers
07-22-2009, 10:32 AM
. . . Let alone reaching for your sweeties, changing a CD, turning round to bark at the kids, dog, dropping a burning ciggy into your lap...
and there's growing mutterings about SatNav distraction.....


Sure, there are lots of other things that distract a driver.

But in my experience, whenever I've seen someone driving erratically, and have gotten close enough to see what's going on, they've almost always been talking on a cell phone.

Wayne

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
07-22-2009, 10:37 AM
Why not a BOUNTY system..
Take a pictuure of the offender with your phone, transmit it to "BIG BROTHER" and get a 20% commish on the ticket price.

Think there'd be any moreBus Drivers texting ??

What a good idea - a sharp photographer could probably make good living standing at almost any road junction.

Andrew Craig-Bennett
07-22-2009, 10:46 AM
There are lots of things that the driver can do in a modern car without taking his or her hands off the wheel, or looking further away from the road than the traditional position of the "clocks" on the dashboard.

In mine I can switch between radio and CD and between stations and discs, set up and cancel the radar assisted cruise control, find out how much fuel I have left and how much I am, and have been using, and make a telephone call, using a voice system.

The question is, can I do all these things without taking my mind off the road, even if my eyes stay on it ?

paladin
07-22-2009, 02:29 PM
I'm probably the worse back seat driver ever....
My ride picked me up at the hospital to bring me home...then asked if I needed to stop anywhere, when I said "no" she asked if she could stop as she hadn't had lunch and it was 4:30 in the afternoon and we were about to hit some D.C. traffic....
We stopped...but she said she would continue driving....and eating....and trying to talk at the same time.....dropped the food in her lap, stomped the brake in traffic....swerved across the center line, and then got very "disturbed" when I suggested that she park until she finished her food. I dislike riding with her because I think she may be claustrophobic....she gets in the car...turns on the air conditioner, rolls down the windows for "fresh air" and then absolutely must have the radio turned on....not just this once...but every trip...

SMARTINSEN
07-22-2009, 03:39 PM
I almost bought the farm the other day when I stopped at a stop sign, thought that I looked, but did not look well enough, and just about T-boned an oncoming car. Within inches. While talking on the phone.


Scared the bejeebers out of the other driver, and he pulled over. We did not actually have any contact, and I just drove off in the opposite direction, leaving him shaking his fist.

Too close for comfort.

No more talking and driving at the same time for me. What Wayne Jeffers says. It is not just the punching the buttons, but the conversation itself that takes up your brain's processing power, diverting it from the function of safe driving.

Perhaps it is because one task is aural, and the other is visual and the brain is not very good at multi-tasking.

htom
07-22-2009, 04:11 PM
Even though talking is "verbal" and driving is "visual", listening and talking interferes with driving because when you listen your brain does searches for images that might relate to what you're hearing, even if they don't get all the way up to your conscious mind.

oznabrag
07-22-2009, 06:36 PM
Even though talking is "verbal" and driving is "visual", listening and talking interferes with driving because when you listen your brain does searches for images that might relate to what you're hearing, even if they don't get all the way up to your conscious mind.

Now that has got to make the most sense of any theory I've heard!

paladin
07-22-2009, 08:37 PM
I designed such a system for a "government type" client about 10 years ago. Very small, hired a gentleman formerly with French NSA to write the software. A unit as small as a business card that can be imbedded with various functions, and the person carrying it can go anywhere inside a very large complex, like a military base, and if he/she has an important incoming call or must be contacted then the computer tells the secretary exactly where that person is and the nearest phone or fax machine or whatever you set it up to do.....and at the end of the day and someone finds a classified file sitting on a copier and everyone has gone home, you can do a routine on the computer and see what time the document was checked out, by whome and everywhere that document travelled......and other things...

B_B
07-22-2009, 11:07 PM
just came upon this article:
http://www.slate.com/id/2223277/pagenum/all/#p2

apparently the technology is already available and Nationwide will give you a discount if you use the service:
"The Aegis software can detect when a phone is in a "driving state," which lets target customers—mostly parents and company safety directors—monitor on-road calling activity or block calls while the car is in motion. The hard part has been finding partners among the big wireless companies, which would sell the blocking service for an extra monthly fee. In October, Nationwide Mutual Insurance Co. said it would offer discounts to customers using Aegis once wireless providers adopt the technology."

Vince Brennan
07-22-2009, 11:17 PM
Last week I watched a comely young lass (and she WAS a real beauty, too!), talking on her cellphone as she obliviously made a left turn across oncoming traffic, onto a one-way street (the wrong way, of course) and right into the nose of a Police cruiser, all at about thirty MPH.

About eight of us ran over to "assist" (did I mention she was a real beauty?) and damn if she wasn't STILL talking on the phone as she tried to get the driver's side door opened.

The Officer in the car was immensely NOT amused.

I left. Quickly.

pipefitter
07-23-2009, 12:34 AM
I remember a time when you could spot intoxicated drivers, mostly on weekend evenings. You could fall back and stay out of their way just in case. Now you can't tell the difference. It looks like everyone is loaded. I imagine it was much easier for the cops to pull someone over for obvious DUI but now it must be much more difficult. At least with the intoxicated drivers, there was more of a predictable and observable pattern because they were like that the whole time. Now it can happen all of a sudden.

Often when I am driving with my son, we try to pick out the phone drivers by the way they are driving. I'd say 9 out of 10 guesses are correct.

A guy we know installs window tint. He said he had this woman ask him for the darkest tint she could get. He told her it would be difficult for her to see out of the car at night. She said she didn't care. She was tired of having people direct road rage at her so she was tinting her windows so that that they couldn't see her using her phone.

It has to be like an addiction. I watch people get fidgety if it doesn't ring. Check to see if the battery is dead or that perhaps they may have missed a call, even though it never leaves their side. The guy I work with is real bad with it, always having to recharge it in his truck. The last time he said it, I offered up the battery from my cordless drill. Somehow, he didn't see the humor in it.

rbgarr
07-23-2009, 02:27 AM
Maine will be enacting a 'Distracted Driving' statute which may carry the same penalties as DUI (heavy fines, lost license, etc.)

http://www.mainelegislature.org/legis/bills/bills_124th/chapters/PUBLIC446.asp

doorstop
07-23-2009, 02:40 AM
Worst I have seen in some time was a little time ago. A woman with three small children in booster seats on the highway. She was reading them a story from a large book which she had on the steering wheel. She was "doing the actions"!!! This was at 110kph.

I invested $13 in a simple cable which goes from my cars' sound system to my phone. Combined with velcro on the dash mat and the phone it effectively turns it into a hands free setup....

George Roberts
07-23-2009, 03:40 PM
So the passengers in a moving vehicle would not be able to use their phones?

Stupid solution to a non-existent problem. People tend to self regulate their attention as needed. Those who take too many risks tend to die off. Yes, they kill others but the chances are so slim that it is not worth worrying about.

rbgarr
07-23-2009, 04:52 PM
Read the whole thread, George.

Wayne Jeffers
07-23-2009, 06:27 PM
. . . Yes, they kill others but the chances are so slim that it is not worth worrying about.

As if it werenít already abundantly clear that you have no regard for life, human or other.

How many thousand innocents must die a senseless death so that you donít have to pull over to make a phone call? :mad:

Wayne

George Roberts
07-23-2009, 08:46 PM
"How many thousand innocents must die a senseless death so that you don’t have to pull over to make a phone call?"

I don't make calls from my car. Any calls I get are worth taking.

But more important is I realize that cell phones are not much of a cause for accidents.

---

7000 people die in the US each day. About 100 from car accidents. I suspect few involve cell phones. I suspect any cost benefit analysis would show that there are many more cost effective ways to prevent deaths than restricting cell phones.

rbgarr
07-23-2009, 08:55 PM
Any calls I get are worth taking.

You must be indispensable! How god-like it must feel. :eek:

B_B
07-23-2009, 09:04 PM
I suspect any cost benefit analysis would show that there are many more cost effective ways to prevent deaths than restricting cell phones.
well, when Insurance companies give you a premium discount for installing a device which inhibits use of cell phone in your car, and when other Insurance companies are lobbying to ban cell phone use in cars, one must assume that someone with a better understanding of the cost / benefit analysis has come to a different conclusion than yourself.

Insurance Companies are many things, but being imprudent with profit is not one of them.

Canoeyawl
07-23-2009, 10:00 PM
"The graveyards are full of indispensable men"
Charles De Gaulle

John Smith
07-24-2009, 11:12 AM
Well..... Technically, it's a technical question.

The implications are pretty political, for lack of a better word.

What's next? Every car has an OnStar-type device that allows the Powers That Be to monitor your every move? Shut your car down at will? Mail you a speeding ticket from monitoring your movements?

This is just the sort of governmental behavior predicted by the framers of our Constitution. Just the sort of thing that document is designed to protect us from.

Government is supposed to serve us, not the other way around.
This actually opens up a whole different topic. If you are speeding, does it matter whether you're caught by a cop on a bike, a radar trap, or some other technology?

John Smith
07-24-2009, 11:19 AM
I don't think anyone has ever suggested talking on a mobile is the problem. Its the looking down at the screen, staring at the keyboard....
A driver recently ran into the back of a young women stopped with a flat tyre, killing her . She had made twenty three texts in the previous ten minutes. She, ergo, wasn't even talking...She did get a couple of years inside for her fu**wit infatuation.
People do strange things. None of them think it will cause an accident. Seems, to me, insanity to try to dial a phone or text a message while driving.

Most I'll do is answer the phone, and it had better be some kind of emergency, or I say call me later.

No reason, however why a passenger should be restricted.

As to penalties, it seems the "wreckless driving" covers a wide range of things, including texting/ twittering, et al.

What I would like to see, as I've previously suggest, is technology used so if one gets tickets for the way they drive and get their license suspended, that they cannot start the vehicle without the license.

I read somewhere that a significant number of accidents are caused by unlicensed drivers. Whether their problem is alcohol, cell phones, or just plain lack of coordination, a suspended license should keep them from driving. It doesn't.

John Smith
07-24-2009, 11:23 AM
Just talking on the cellphone is thought to be a problem. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/21/technology/21distracted.html?em

Unlike driving and talking to a passenger, or singing along with a radio, etc., talking on a cellphone seems to be very different. See the second part of this article. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/13/health/13well.html

Have you ever seen a driver talking to his passenger when the driver is one of those who must look at whomever he's talking to?

There are things that distract us when driving. Pretty girls are one, yard sales another.

It's never going to be perfect. One either has control of one's car, or one does not.

I think it's that simple.

Katherine
07-24-2009, 12:31 PM
But more important is I realize that cell phones are not much of a cause for accidents.

Idiot:rolleyes:

rbgarr
07-24-2009, 01:00 PM
Have you ever seen a driver talking to his passenger when the driver is one of those who must look at whomever he's talking to?

There are things that distract us when driving. Pretty girls are one, yard sales another.

It's never going to be perfect. One either has control of one's car, or one does not.

I think it's that simple.

Oh damn. And there I was, thinking everything would be perfect.